Does 1 John 1:9 mean we have to repent more than once?

Pilgrimshope · Feb 11, 2023

“every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-15‬ ‭

Runningman · Feb 11, 2023

VARob said:

I guess I wasn't clear, but even though we sin unintentionally, isn't your modus operandi to avoid sin? That's your intention right? Avoiding something means you're deliberately trying to stay away from it even if there are occasionally errors.

It's accurate because I wasn't paraphrasing 1 John 1:8-10, but also taking into account the broad context of the 1 John itself. I was talking about the "main idea" of 1 John.

A main idea in a story is the central point or thought the author wants to communicate to readers.

So I was also referring to this.

1 John 3
8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.

9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

Pilgrimshope · Feb 11, 2023

Komentaja said:

“We shall see on judgment day.”

thats exactly true and the right attitude to have we don’t have the place judging ourselves either way

“But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭4:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We should wait for the day when we are judged by the lord because he’s the only qualified judge of mankind in th at he suffered and shed his blood to purchase us from death

Complacency is bred by doctrine and isn’t actually something we should embrace we should live our lives as if one day we have to answer the lord for every word and deed

this will help us live upright lives knowing we are accountable

HealthAndHappiness · Feb 11, 2023

seed_time_harvest said:

Hi STH,

John the apostle knew he was saved. He had no doubt about it. How did he address the audience of this epistle?

A: John addressed them as" My little children," just as Paul referred to specific converts of his own. These are saved folks, not lost. 2:1 & 2:12

B. 2:2. "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
Notice that he uses the collective pronoun "our" which includes he identified with his fellow saved believers.
In the same verse he distinguishes "our" from "the whole world".

C. The letter:s theme begins with "fellowship" with them (John as well as his fellow believers." My Dad and I would sometimes butt heads and be out of fellowship. Washe still my Dad? Of course, but we were not constantly on speaking terms since I was born . There were times when I was rebellious and needed to apologize before that fellowship and joy was restored. That's when I needed to admit / confess that I was wrong. It's not much different with my heavenly Father. He never required me to confess my sins to be saved. Fellowship is different from the relationship that I have with the Father. Fellowship changes from time to time due to disobedience. I was never born due to OBEDIENCE, so why should anyone think they can maintain childhood or that Father/ son relationship through OBEDIENCE. I am His child, not by apologies or confessions. I am His child / relation (ship) due to the following.
What he required me to be saved is made clear in 5:11-13.

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

The following brief explanation may help too.
The difference between a saved person who requires fellowship.
/\

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us"
Titus 3:5

Does this make sense, Seed Time Harvest?

Pilgrimshope · Feb 11, 2023

Runningman said:

This part is there also and is a discernment

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

( what if someone does sin though ?)

And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-2‬

We should always intend to do right consistently it should be our hesrt and intent

later having that attitude we are going to realize “ I’ve done wrong also in my own life I have also sinned since I believed in Jesus and was called a child of God “

The Bible teaches us to turn completely against sin but it also tells us “ when you fail if you confess I will forgive you and wash you clean “

Its why Jesus taught his disciples things like this notice it’s Jesus talking to his disciples calling then Gods children but he’s also acknolwedging they still need forgivness

“After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:9-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This isn’t the law of Moses it says kill the sinners , it’s the gospel preached to the world you can see how Jesus understood even a believer isn’t going to be perfect in everything they will always need mercy but they the disciples are constantly following after , learning from thier tescher growing up becoming mature ect

as we become more alive in Christ sin loses its grip on us and we truly become free over time as we persevere but forgiving those who sin against us is important because we still need mercy too

aa31000 · Feb 11, 2023

seed_time_harvest said:

I didnt say they were never saved. But one can lose that. Jesus teaches--(Those who endure until their end will be saved. Matt 10:22)---Endure what? One must be living now in this satan ruled system doing Jesus' Fathers will,( Matt 7:21) over their own will. Because those have disowned self to follow Jesus Mark 8:34)( only these are actually saved)
Any man can tell another-- you are saved. But in reality that man does not know-1) He has never seen a single name written in Gods book of life-2) He cannot read anothers true heart-3) He has no idea who can or will endure until their end.

aa31000 · Feb 11, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

“willfully practice a sin”

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

willful sin is different from someone struggling with sin and failing

Willful sin is when your able to overcome and willfully choose to continue in sin because you desire it more than righteousness

It is a willful act , it’s not the same as someone who is struggling with sin

This takes time alot of time and it’s capacity grows as we learn more from Jesus

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34, 36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you have to first be set free in order to willfully sin is my point a free man who serves a slave master is doing it willfully , a servant or captive isn’t serving sin willfully they are in this boat

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’ve known people in my life who struggles half thier life with particular sins eventually thoer faith led then to repentance those sins are now behind them though they had repeatedly continued in those things because they were not willing to don them but they were serving the human nature of lust as all of us have not understanding and truly not being capable

awe have to come to this place to be free and when your free your Will has been changed by the gospel from sin to righteousness

What I’m saying is

“But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin,( not willful but bondage )

but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:17-18, 20-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

say that point if a person returns back to those things God has freed them from it becomes willful they’ve been set free but are choosing freely to return tonthe bondage

awe have to let Jesus alone with each other when it comes to judgement and work on our own selves

as one know a little bit of the gospel some know a lot others know every word it is thier own undersrsnding they are held to not another persons

babes and adults aren’t the same and aren’t able to accomplish the same things nor live up to the accountability ofnthe other

a grown up can’t sit on mamas lap and be bottle fed , but a babe can’t be expected to go earn a living either the babes belong to God as well as the full grown people each has thoer own level of understsnding and therefore thier own standard of judgement based on what they understand themselves from the gospel

“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Think of it this way of your beloved brother did something wrong would it matter if they knew it was wrong before they did it to you ? It matters if we are aware to God

willful sin is a free man who willfully chooses to live in opposition to Gods Will which is the gospel

The one that suffered and died gets to decide who’s saved and who’s not

Willful sin is one knowing it is sin and choosing to do it anyway with their free will. Those have not disowned self to follow Jesus( Mark 8:34)-- Only those who disown self are true followers. Many try, But Jesus taught-FEW will find the road that leads off into life( be saved)-- One should never give up, Pray very hard when one is tempted. All go through trying to beat their fleshly desires. Mortals cant accomplish it without Gods strength. But it can be done. By putting Gods will above self.

seed_time_harvest · Feb 11, 2023

Yes and remember that a great light came Into the world but men loved darkness IOW GOD has to change the man and then IMO that man will be positionally saved and after that,there Is continued sanctification.

oyster67 · Feb 11, 2023

seed_time_harvest said:

Repentance is an ongoing thing.

1 John 2:1
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:”

Psalms 32:5
“I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.”

oyster67 · Feb 11, 2023

seed_time_harvest said:

...until apostacy happens.

John 6:66
“From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.”

Pilgrimshope · Feb 11, 2023

oyster67 said:

Amen and look at the very next verse

“For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: Surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭32:6‬ ‭

that time is now that the gospel is declared he may be found now for those willing to repent and confess thier sins and receive that forgiveness of iniquity which is the stain that sin leaves behind upon our soul

sin has also iniquity bound to it like a residue of we hide our sins it is able to corrupt us going forward if we acknolwedge them we can have them cleansed away and attain the righteousness only Christ gives through his act of mercy d our hearing of faith in him by the gospel

He can now be found and known since Jesus came forth preaching the gospel

“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:19-20‬ ‭

let us enter our labor and step from the darkness of the world into the light of Jesus Christ that shines from the gospel while he is here to be found freely by all believers in the gospel

“Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:5-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You see a sinner o refuses to step into the light of the gospel is ever going to see clearly enough to see thier own sins in order to repent in darkness they believe “ I have no sin “ even when they walk and commit sin they won’t acknolwedge it because there’s no light shining in the heart of faith

If a room is dark it’s that you can’t see the mess inside you could never clean up a mess you can’t see but when the light is turned on everything becomes visible and then we can clean our house d keep it maintained when there’s mud on the flood later we don’t burn the house down we simply wash the floor and we don’t tear down the whole house because some mud got on the floor we can see joe so we can see when the muddy tracks need washing

aa31000 · Feb 11, 2023

oyster67 said:

Some seem to think they cannot lose their salvation. TY for sharing that. In the OT it says ones name can be removed from Gods book of life. Exodus 32:33)-- So once saved always saved is not a true teaching.

Deuteronomy · Feb 11, 2023

seed_time_harvest said:

Hello again Seed_Time_Harvest, the short answer is no, I do not believe that someone who has truly been regenerated, justified and saved by God can lose their salvation .. e.g. John 5:24, whether in this life, or in the eternity to come. This includes the sin of failing to confess our sins (for a time) as believers, even after we realize that we've committed them.

That said, if someone (who claims/believes themselves to be a Christian) never seeks to be forgiven of their sins, I think the question that you just asked me, "can an impenitent Christian lose their salvation" pales in comparison to the FAR more important question that they need to ask themselves, "was I ever/truly saved by God, or do I just think that I was"

As the Lord Jesus will say to some (at the Great White Throne),

Matthew 7

22 “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’

23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’”

This is why we are admonished to make our calling and election sure, yes .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 13:5; 2 Peter 1:10.

When we sinned as unbelievers, we did so in accordance with our old, fallen nature/our "old self", and we (typically) enjoyed doing so. Sin was, in point of fact, a continual source of pleasure for us, or we wouldn't have done it.

However, whenever we sin now, as believers, we do so in defiance of/against our new nature/our "new self" in Christ. That, along with the fact that we are permanently indwelt by the Holy Spirit, is why we feel so bad as believers whenever we sin, why we are grieved and seek to be forgiven and cleansed of our sins (and why we are horrified by the thought of how we used to live in sin as unbelievers).

So, if you believe that you are a Christian on the one hand, but you know that you are leading an impenitent/sinful lifestyle on the other, the question that you need to ask isn't, "can I lose my salvation", rather, the question that you need to ask yourself instead is, "was I ever saved to begin with"

I hope that helps a bit.

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy
p.s. - while the Lord Jesus certainly came to save us from the penalty of sin in the age to come, He also came to save us from the sway/the power that sin holds over us in the here and now. So, if a person's sole interest in becoming a Christian is to be saved from Hell in eternity, and not (at the same time) from their carnality and worldliness on this side of the grave, then I don't believe that they are saved. Rather, they are deceived.
.

Komentaja · Feb 12, 2023

VARob said:

What he said IS True.

The same book of John you quote for that permission to sin, says those who sin are children of the devil.

VARob · Feb 12, 2023

Komentaja said:

It would be interesting to do a poll: Do Christians sin?

thomas64 · Feb 12, 2023

When I went against my parents rules as a child, I would always tell them I was sorry for doing so, not because I thought they would throw me out of the house if I didn't, but because I loved them, and felt bad about what I had done. I had no rest and no peace until I repented/apologised for my errors, because they loved me they forgave me, and all was well, I had my peace back. It's the same with our christian lives, you err, you tell God you are sorry, he forgives you because he loves you, then you get your peace back. Anyone who doesn't feel bad enough about sin to tell God they are sorry for what they did is on very dangerous ground I would say, to put it mildly

Komentaja · Feb 12, 2023

VARob said:

Of course they do. Based on this type of questioning I can assume you are in the easy believism camp i described above.

So here we have two "contradicting" verses, what do we do? Do we just keep quoting them back at each other? OR do we just HARMONIZE and realize John is saying: Those who are living in sin are not true Christians, those who are living in righteousness are true Christians. SIMPLE: Its not about being only evil continually or being perfect like Jesus. Its a pattern of righteousness or sin in ones life.

mailmandan · Feb 12, 2023

Notice that - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) is in contrast to - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10)

Certain people seem to misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory of every sin) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin we are toast!" Who could actually write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed or ever will commit? Sin is not only missing the mark by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)

Believers "confess" (Greek - homologeó) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)

Evmur · Feb 12, 2023

seed_time_harvest said:

I'm always repenting me, I get tetchy sometimes ... just say "sorry Lord"

Evmur · Feb 12, 2023

Evmur said:

always claiming Jesu's blood too ...

Does 1 John 1:9 mean we have to repent more than once?

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