Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[CorrectiveLens]

Yep not unconditional election it is conditional elevation, elected by faith

When you are chosen by the Father, He makes you aware of your sins and grants you the repentance necessary for you to turn to God for forgiveness and strength to overcome. The Father first chooses ( from the beginning of creation) and then comes the changes that come from Him at certain points in our lives such as repentance, belief and trust in the Father's plan of salvation through Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and being filled with His Holy Spirit which perfects us so that when love is our motive we will be obeying the Spirit of the Law. There is only one Baptism and that is when the Father chooses you ( in His name). Baptism in the name of the Son will follow when you put your faith in Jesus for the forgiveness of sin, and Baptism in the name of the Holy Spirit occurs when you receive the Holy Spirit of God.
In other words, nothing comes before being chosen. Being chosen is not a consequence for anything we can do. It is by the will of God alone that a person is chosen to receive His mercy.

 

[brightfame52]

I agree. But the calvinistic explanation is WRONG. You can only disagree with me, but you HAVE NOT, because you CANNOT show any verses showing that election is to salvation.


Oh, you can just stop this childishness. Calvinism just doesn't understand the biblical doctrine of election.


Then show me please. Find a verse that proves calvinism is right.

If you can't do that, why do you believe it?

There you go calling truth calvinist, thats scoffing truth.

 

[brightfame52]

Instead of just repeating your opinions, PROVE them by exegeting 1 John 2:2.

Its been shown plenty of times, its up to God to convince a person of truth.

 

[FreeGrace2]

There you go calling truth calvinist, thats scoffing truth.

Well, I agree with you here, about calling "truth calvinist", since calvinism isn't the truth.

But I've NEVER called truth "calvinist". I wouldn't even think of doing that. And I've proven otherwise.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Instead of just repeating your opinions, PROVE them by exegeting 1 John 2:2.

Its been shown plenty of times, its up to God to convince a person of truth.

If you really did do this, could you at least provide the post # so I can see what you posted? I have no idea how you would exegete the verse.

Or, if you are referring to your very short retort about the verse being about "the elect", please PROVE your claim from the context.

I don't think you can, since John NEVER referred to "the elect" at all.

 

[brightfame52]

Well, I agree with you here, about calling "truth calvinist", since calvinism isn't the truth.

But I've NEVER called truth "calvinist". I wouldn't even think of doing that. And I've proven otherwise.

I am glad you admit that you scoff truth by calling it calvinism.

 

[brightfame52]

FreeGrace2 said:
Instead of just repeating your opinions, PROVE them by exegeting 1 John 2:2.

If you really did do this, could you at least provide the post # so I can see what you posted? I have no idea how you would exegete the verse.

Or, if you are referring to your very short retort about the verse being about "the elect", please PROVE your claim from the context.

I don't think you can, since John NEVER referred to "the elect" at all.

Its been proven, you disregard as calvinism.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I am glad you admit that you scoff truth by calling it calvinism.

No, I point out that calvinism isn't biblical. And I have proved it. What's your excuse?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Its been proven, you disregard as calvinism.

That's just what I said. I proved that calvinism isn't biblical.

For example, what verse says that election is to salvation? None.

Every verse that includes the purpose of election mentions service.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Those verses speak of Gods elect from among the jews and gentiles.

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2


So you believe “the whole world” refers to God’s elect?




JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

Christ cannot be the propitiation for this world and yet destroy it. If He was its propitiation, its destruction would not be possible - there can be no doubt or debate about that.

What there is no doubt about, is the fact that Christ Jesus is indeed the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2





JLB

 

[justpassinthrough]

if as YOU say, someone has to hear, believe and accept in order to be saved, what happens for salvation to those who are infirm, young, too old etc, if they can't do those things you stated -

Its not what I state, it’s what Jesus says. He is the Lord. It’s His gospel, not mine, not yours.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Does Jesus say, believe and be saved?


Or does He say, be saved then believe?






JLB

 

[rogerg]

Does Jesus say, believe and be saved?


Or does He say, be saved then believe?

Are you avoiding/refusing to answer my question? It is a simple one and one that demands a yes or no answer. Once again, are you saying that those who are unable to hear and to come to faith in Christ throughout their lives for whatever reason (infirmity, age, not hearing the Gospel, etc) will not be saved? So, with just a yes or no - yes = they are saved, no = they're not saved, which is it?
Your answer is central to your argument

 

[rogerg]

What there is no doubt about, is the fact that Christ Jesus is indeed the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2

He definitely is but that is not the question. The question is: which world? This current one or the one to come?
It can't be this world because He will destroy it. Did you actually read the verses I provided in an earlier post proving this?
The following is another one.

[1Jo 2:15-17 KJV]
15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Since the Father tells us in v15 (above) not to love this world, then neither does He love it. If He doesn't love it, then it isn't, and can't be, the object of John 3:16 (the world that God "so loved"). V17 (above) tells us this world will pass-away. If it is to pass-away, how can those who "believe" be saved? The world they are saved into must be an everlasting one - a world "wherein dwelleth righteousness". If it is an everlasting one, it can only be because it is the one "God so loved". John 3:17 goes on to explain that the world God loved will NOT be condemned and will be saved, but in v17 (above), we see this world is already condemned. This leaves us with only possibility for the object of God's affection: the world to come.

[Jhn 3:15-17 KJV]
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Since the Father tells us in v15 (above) not to love this world, then neither does He love it.

In John 2:15-17, the word "world" refers to worldly affairs, worldly things which are designed to move people away from the things of God.

From Thayer's Greek Lexicon

7. worldly affairs; the aggregate of things earthly; the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments, riches, advantages, pleasures, etc., which, although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ​

If He doesn't love it, then it isn't, and can't be, the object of John 3:16 (the world that God "so loved").

In John 3:16, the word "world" refers to people.

From Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

5. the inhabitants of the world: ... particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race​

This leaves us with only possibility for the object of God's affection: the world to come.

your explanation is not the only option ... another possibility is that you need to understand more the nuances of the Greek text and that 1 John 2:15-17 refers to worldly systems and John 3:16 refers to people as pointed out by Thayer's Greek Lexicon ... just sayin'

 

[rogerg]

In John 2:15-17, the word "world" refers to worldly affairs, worldly things which are designed to move people away from the things of God.

From Thayer's Greek Lexicon

7. worldly affairs; the aggregate of things earthly; the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments, riches, advantages, pleasures, etc., which, although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ




In John 3:16, the word "world" refers to people.

From Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

5. the inhabitants of the world: ... particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race

Looks like the same (word to me - komos) for all.

1. an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
2. ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3
3. the world, the universe
4. the circle of the earth, the earth
5. the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
6. the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
7. world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
   1. the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
8. any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
   1. the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)

1Jo 2:15
Love G25 not G3361 the world, G2889 neither G3366 the things that are in G1722 the world. G2889 If G1437 any man G5100 love G25 the world, G2889 the love G26 of the Father G3962 is G2076 not G3756 in G1722 him. G846

1Jo 2:15
For G3754 all G3956 that is in G1722 the world, G2889 the lust G1939 of the flesh, G4561 and G2532 the lust G1939 of the eyes, G3788 and G2532 the pride G212 of life, G979 is G2076 not G3756 of G1537 the Father, G3962 but G235 is G2076 of G1537 the world. G2889

1Jo 2:17
And G2532 the world G2889 passeth away, G3855 and G2532 the lust G1939 thereof: G846 but G1161 he that doeth G4160 the will G2307 of God G2316 abideth G3306 for G1519 ever. G165

Jhn 3:17
For G1063 God G2316 sent G649 not G3756 his G846 Son G5207 into G1519 the world G2889 to G2443 condemn G2919 the world; G2889 but G235 that G2443 the world G2889 through G1223 him G846 might be saved. G4982

 

[brightfame52]

No, I point out that calvinism isn't biblical. And I have proved it. What's your excuse?

You make evident you reject the truth and scoff it.

 

[brightfame52]

That's just what I said. I proved that calvinism isn't biblical.

For example, what verse says that election is to salvation? None.

Every verse that includes the purpose of election mentions service.

You proved that you reject the truth and scoff it.

 

[brightfame52]

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2


So you believe “the whole world” refers to God’s elect?




JPT

Yes in 1 Jn 2:2 its the elect only !

 

[CorrectiveLens]

FreeGrace2 said:
Can you prove from the Bible that election is to salvation? Or that salvation is unconditional, meaning that man does NOTHING to be saved?

OK, I will take your response as "no I can't prove from the Bible that election is to salvation".

Which, of course, is rather obvious. All you've been doing is repeat your opinions.

Truth ALWAYS has an answer (not an opinion). It is the opinions that can't answer or defend itself. Need facts and evidence.

1 Peter 1: 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God, the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Elect means chosen before you are even born, and humanity's time line is a rerun for God, the Father. As God, He is able to manipulate events for His pleasure and as evidence to all created beings in heaven and on earth of His justice and mercy and power and love. To sanctify means to fix or repair to perfection in order to achieve the purpose for its creation. The Holy Spirit sanctifies us by filling our hearts with agape love and we obey His commandments because we make choices motivated by love ( the Spirit of the Law). The sprinkling of the blood of Jesus occurs when you put your trust in Jesus death for the forgiveness of sins. You are baptized in the name of the Father when you are chosen to receive His grace. You are baptized in the name of the Son when you put your trust in Jesus, and you are baptized in the name of the Holy Spirit when God's Spirit enters your heart and fills it with love.


1 Cor 1:9 God is faithful by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
It is the Father who calls us to be part of the spiritual body of His Son and a member of His Family. Through the Father's Holy Spirit, we are able to be One with the Father and Son because we share the same motivation, the same love, and the same line of communication as Jesus.


1 Cor 1: 26-31 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called; But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not , to bring to nothing things that are, THAT NO FLESH SHOULD GLORY IN HIS PRESENCE. But of (by) Him are ye in Christ Jesus,who of (by) God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption; That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
God chooses those that are called. His choice is not based on wisdom ( worldly), strength or might, status ( worldly or religious), or wealth. Paul is talking to lowly people and telling them that they are examples of the kind of people that God chooses. Those that are not chosen miss the boat completely because they want to take credit for their salvation whether it be because they walked the aisle or said a prayer or got baptized with water or attend church regularly or trusted in Jesus or try to be good enough. You might be doing all those things, but it is the Father who has changed you ( John 1: 13 Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.) and it is He that you should give glory and praise to as well as to Christ who is our God, Lord and Savior.