Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[eternally-gratefull]

And in reading my reply to you above, I can see that I didn't directly answer your question. So the answer
is that we are spiritually blind before becoming saved. Should we believe we can generate faith
on our own would mean by that, that we don't yet have true faith. Further, acquiring faith is a work
and we can't be saved by our works. God has to do it all.

[Eph 1:17 KJV]
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

[1Co 2:14 KJV]
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Thank you for this,

Again i must reply, This renders join 4 void.

Your right, the natural man can't Thats why God must convict the world of sin righteousness and judgment.

remember, Roman 1 states that man already understands they are rightly judged (condemned)

God does not need to make man understand the deep things of God to make them repent. He just needs to do what he did with the tax collector. Who God on his knees unable to even look up and called out on God for his mercy.

He did that because he became "poor in spirit"

As Jesus said, blessed are those who become poor in spirit. for theirs is the kingdom.

The term used is literally bankrupt.

The tac collector could not boast how he saved himself. Hence his faith is not a work. It was however the work of God. who through many means led the tax collector to Christ.

 

[Mem]

Each person.

Whoever believes is not condemned

Whoever does not believe is condemned already.

This means we are responsible for chosing to believe or not believe.

God took upon Himself the responsibility of saving us from condemnation and leaves the personal response(ability) to us of believing and so then receiving it, but there are many that cannot accept even that much!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God took upon Himself the responsibility of saving us from condemnation and leaves the personal response(ability) to us of believing and so then receiving it, but there are many that cannot accept even that much!

People pride gets in the way.

Thats why religion is so popular, we come to God out way

 

[Mem]

People pride gets in the way.

Thats why religion is so popular, we come to God out way

Although a large number of people believe in God, as even demons believe that He exists, I believe, not because God waved His magic wand over me but, because He proved Himself faithful and true in all that He spoke concerning Himself through His Word and Son Jesus Christ the perfect representation of His nature, and I believe that. I have faith in Him, i.e. faith in His character that cannot lie, etc.

 

[rogerg]

The one who believes has eternal life

the one who does not believe is dead.

I see it in the reverse - that those who have been given eternal life, believe. Everyone is born dead spiritually.

[Act 13:48 KJV]
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Our faith does not save us, Christ's faith does. That's why He has the title of Savior and we don't. Our faith in Christ is given as
a fruit of the Holy Spirit and is a gift we receive only after becoming saved.

[2Co 1:21 KJV] 21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God;

 

[Icedaisey]

God took upon Himself the responsibility of saving us from condemnation and leaves the personal response(ability) to us of believing and so then receiving it, but there are many that cannot accept even that much!

Perhaps we reject Sophistry. Because we believe what The Word made flesh tells us in his word. Sadly, many cannot accept that.

And to be clear, my post that recognize those who, as Jesus foretold, would not understand, is not saying those ones aren't Saved. God knows whom he calls. It is not for us to judge. That is, unless or until we encounter someone wholly opposed to the Gospel. Then we don't have to say they're not in Christ when they are.

 

[Mem]

I see it in the reverse - that those who have been given eternal life, believe. Everyone is born dead spiritually.

[Act 13:48 KJV]
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Our faith does not save us, Christ's faith does. That's why He has the title of Savior and we don't. Our faith in Christ is given as
a fruit of the Holy Spirit and is a gift we receive only after becoming saved.

[2Co 1:21 KJV] 21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God;

Recognizing the faithfulness of Christ compels our own faith. The Pharisees judged Him, wrongly, as deceptive, as if He were a liar.

 

[rogerg]

Again i must reply, This renders join 4 void.

Which verse(s) in John 4?

Regarding Romans and unbelieves in general, we are informed:

[Jhn 12:39-40 KJV]
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Unless God first saves someone, they remain spiritually blind and cannot understand nor be converted, It is all God's work so
that someone becomes saved

 

[Mem]

Perhaps we reject Sophistry. Because we believe what The Word made flesh tells us in his word. Sadly, many cannot accept that.

And to be clear, my post that recognize those who, as Jesus foretold, would not understand, is not saying those ones aren't Saved. God knows whom he calls. It is not for us to judge. That is, unless or until we encounter someone wholly opposed to the Gospel. Then we don't have to say they're not in Christ when they are.

A false humility is still pride by any other name.

 

[Icedaisey]

A false humility is still pride by any other name.

Scripture please? You must have one to support your self criticism of your behaviors. Newly arrived(?) in this thread yet full of criticism.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I see it in the reverse - that those who have been given eternal life, believe. Everyone is born dead spiritually.

[Act 13:48 KJV]
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Our faith does not save us, Christ's faith does. That's why He has the title of Savior and we don't. Our faith in Christ is given as
a fruit of the Holy Spirit and is a gift we receive only after becoming saved.

[2Co 1:21 KJV] 21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God;

This is impossible

we are dead because of sin

we can not be made alive while still under the penalty of sin.

hence justification MUST precede our gift of eternal life. WHich is why again jesus said in John 3, whoever believes shall never perish but has eternal life.

I did not have eternal life in the state on unbelief

again, whoever does not believe is condemned already. Until the unbeliever repents and believes they are in a condemned state

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Which verse(s) in John 4?

Excuse me, I meant John 3. But even in john 4. He told the lady to ask, and he would give her rivers of living water flowing to eternal life.

So john 4 fits as well

[quote[
Regarding Romans and unbelieves in general, we are informed:

[Jhn 12:39-40 KJV]
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Unless God first saves someone, they remain spiritually blind and cannot understand nor be converted, It is all God's work so
that someone becomes saved[/QUOTE]

How do you harden ones heart. do you understand what the term harden means?

 

[Mem]

Scripture please? You must have one to support your self criticism of your behaviors. Newly arrived(?) in this thread yet full of criticism.

Ha, if you can't decipher my writing correctly, I can't expect you to understand scripture any better.

 

[rogerg]

This is impossible

we are dead because of sin

we can not be made alive while still under the penalty of sin.

hence justification MUST precede our gift of eternal life. WHich is why again jesus said in John 3, whoever believes shall never perish but has eternal life.

I did not have eternal life in the state on unbelief

again, whoever does not believe is condemned already. Until the unbeliever repents and believes they are in a condemned state

We are made spiritually alive along with our sin being forgiven by God. At that time, we are also given faith as a gift:

[Rom 8:2 KJV]
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Christ Himself makes us free of sin (and death). We do not.

 

[Icedaisey]

Ha, if you can't decipher my writing correctly, I can't expect you to understand scripture any better.

Precisely the response I expected. Thank God for warnings in his word against the likes of you.
You have no scripture to support it. Because your behavior proves your profile "slogan" is falsehood.
Wolves in sheep's attire.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are made spiritually alive along with our sin being forgiven by God. At that time, we are also given faith as a gift:

[Rom 8:2 KJV]
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Christ Himself makes us free of sin (and death). We do not.

Your right, we can't

But god tells us HOW we are freed from that sin and death

in John 3. Belief

In john 4 Ask

In john 6, Eat, believe

 

[rogerg]

How do you harden ones heart. do you understand what the term harden means?

I don't understand what you're asking? You said "you". We don't harden a heart -- it is the natural state of man

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ha, if you can't decipher my writing correctly, I can't expect you to understand scripture any better.

she is trying to deflect. Don;t let her get to you. Just keep confronting her.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't understand what you're asking? You said "you". We don't harden a heart -- it is the natural state of man

If it is the natural state. then why does God say we harden our heart or he hardens our heart?

The heart is our mind our will

what does the word harden mean?

When I found this out it opened my mind to a whole new world of understanding.

 

[rogerg]

Your right, we can't

But god tells us HOW we are freed from that sin and death

in John 3. Belief

In john 4 Ask

In john 6, Eat, believe

Please provide verses for the above - thanks