Do not let your hearts be troubled.

[Pilgrimshope]

John 14:1
King James Version

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

I Interpret this as JESUS telling them that they believe In GOD whom they couldn’t see then believe In me who you can see.IOW,JESUS was demonstrating not only In words what the FATHER told HIM but he was actually visible to their eyes.

amen

“No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬

 

[Aaron56]

Yes I’ve heard that before also

I see it like this man lost thier God given place in paradise with God in the beginning

“So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and the gospel offers a reconciliation for man after we pass through the world

“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think you are referencing this

“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom:

the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things:

but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:22-23, 25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think that heaven is where believers wait like Abraham , and the thief and all these folks who overcome the world

“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:9-10, 14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


hell is where the wicked wait after they serve the world like the rich man but in the end what is in heaven is going to come to earth including all those folks who are there

“And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:2-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See how they first appear in heaven with Christ , being comforted and Cared for and later what’s in heaven comes down to earth and then they are cared for and the old thkngs are done death is gone away ?

I believe when we die we’re going to be with Christ in his heavenly kingdom until he restores all things upon his return to earth then we will receive our new body for the new earth but our spiritual body goes to heaven until this time like the thief we know his body died like Lazarus the beggar but both were alive in another place and Abraham was also there

“And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬


I believe we’re going to be received into heaven with him until the restitution comes but that’s just my belief I think paradise is the new Jerusalem in heaven now but will return to earth in the end when he restores all things including our bodies but we have a spiritual body that’s made for heaven until the last resurrection

Agreed. Abraham's bosom is a place for the righteous dead from the beginning of man until Christ conquered Death. The belief is there is no paradise as there is no need for an intermediary place for those who died in Christ.

 

[Aaron56]

"For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit, in whom He also went and preached to the spirits in prison.."

The souls of men were imprisoned in death. Yet, Christ descended into their prison to preach to them. Those who believed were freed from their bonds and taken to be with Him.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Agreed. Abraham's bosom is a place for the righteous dead from the beginning of man until Christ conquered Death. The belief is there is no paradise as there is no need for an intermediary place for those who died in Christ.

heaven is paradise with God is my belief and is sort of “intermediary” he’s gathering his people in heaven to populate the new earth

Notice they appear here first

“Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:15-17‬ ‭

but it’s only here that the new heaven and earth appear and only here when death is abolished ?

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-4‬ ‭

it seems as if heaven is intermediary place for gathering his people after they pass away like the thief , and they will fill the new creation forever as was intended in the beginning no death or anything like Adam brought to
Mankind

So I sort of am looking at heaven as paradise d believe that’s where Jesus is with the believer on the cross but that’s only my view doesn’t mean that’s correct

 

[Pilgrimshope]

"For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit, in whom He also went and preached to the spirits in prison.."

The souls of men were imprisoned in death. Yet, Christ descended into their prison to preach to them. Those who believed were freed from their bonds and taken to be with Him.

yep a lot of folks Miss this

“And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Aaron56]

heaven is paradise with God is my belief and is sort of “intermediary” he’s gathering his people in heaven to populate the new earth

Notice they appear here first

“Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:15-17‬ ‭

but it’s only here that the new heaven and earth appear and only here when death is abolished ?

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-4‬ ‭

it seems as if heaven is intermediary place for gathering his people after they pass away like the thief , and they will fill the new creation forever as was intended in the beginning no death or anything like Adam brought to
Mankind

So I sort of am looking at heaven as paradise d believe that’s where Jesus is with the believer on the cross but that’s only my view doesn’t mean that’s correct

Oh sure. To me, it's not a consequential doctrine. How He deals with us now is more important to me today.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Oh sure. To me, it's not a consequential doctrine. How He deals with us now is more important to me today.

yep he’s come to Live in us now , in order to take us home when we finish our course

 

[walknlight]

I’m not following your scripture there or how it relates
to the thief on the cross

to the thief on the cross, The Christ had not yet ascended up.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

So yes the thief would have been in Paradise until our Lord and Saviour ascended up....

 

[Pilgrimshope]

to the thief on the cross, The Christ had not yet ascended up.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

So yes the thief would have been in Paradise until our Lord and Saviour ascended up....

what I mean is I don’t see how this applies to what your saying

“I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

“Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:1-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s talking about spiritual gifts Christ came from heaven to begin with it isn’t a reference to what we’re talking about I don’t mean offense I just did t see how it was relevant

“And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He came from here

“For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the white you are using should be taken in the context it is written Christ is God and the heavenly Jerusalem already existed before he died and rose it’s where he came from

Those verses are explaining about spiritual gofts he gave when he ascended to here

“Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What is different is he became a man when he was born and died and rose and the Ascended to heaven having accomplished his mission of preaching the gospel and shedding his blood of remission. He’s given the church gifts for building up the body only we usually reject the other peoples gifts meant to help us grow

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Agreed. Abraham's bosom is a place for the righteous dead from the beginning of man until Christ conquered Death. The belief is there is no paradise as there is no need for an intermediary place for those who died in Christ.

did you ever read of samuels conjuring after he died when his spirit was called up from his sleep In the earth ?

it’s interesting reading

“And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee. Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee?

And he said, Bring me up Samuel. And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou?

And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up?

And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.”
‭‭1 Samuel‬ ‭28:8, 11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it sort of lends to the thought of how they slept in the dust of thier bodies until the resurrection came notice the importance that was of thoer body and bones in the ot ? How Jacob insisted they carry his bones along with them and Moses body and it’s importance ?

my own thought and that’s all it is is my own thought is that man is bound to our body when it dies unless we are partakers of the gospel which holds a promise of resurrection both spiritual and later physical

anyways I thought that was interesting about Samuel and shows how diviner’s d spiritists actually do have certain power that is forbidden and sourced in demonic influence . I think the age why God forbids it so harshly

some think witchcraft , horoscopes and all those sorts of thkngs are jokes but they do have power it’s just sourced in evil

 

[Aaron56]

did you ever read of samuels conjuring after he died when his spirit was called up from his sleep In the earth ?

it’s interesting reading

“And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee. Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee?

And he said, Bring me up Samuel. And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou?

And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up?

And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.”
‭‭1 Samuel‬ ‭28:8, 11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it sort of lends to the thought of how they slept in the dust of thier bodies until the resurrection came notice the importance that was of thoer body and bones in the ot ? How Jacob insisted they carry his bones along with them and Moses body and it’s importance ?

my own thought and that’s all it is is my own thought is that man is bound to our body when it dies unless we are partakers of the gospel which holds a promise of resurrection both spiritual and later physical

anyways I thought that was interesting about Samuel and shows how diviner’s d spiritists actually do have certain power that is forbidden and sourced in demonic influence . I think the age why God forbids it so harshly

some think witchcraft , horoscopes and all those sorts of thkngs are jokes but they do have power it’s just sourced in evil

Oh yes. It's in interesting account. I believe the only one who can wake the dead is the Lord but those who tamper in witchcraft and magic actually commune with demons. In the Samuel account above, I think it was actually Samuel and he was awoken by the Lord... and not too happy about Saul instigating it.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Oh yes. It's in interesting account. I believe the only one who can wake the dead is the Lord but those who tamper in witchcraft and magic actually commune with demons. In the Samuel account above, I think it was actually Samuel and he was awoken by the Lord... and not too happy about Saul instigating it.

no he wasn’t happy at all being he had strictly by punishment of death forbidden the practice of divination or communicating with the e dead at all nor was Samuel happy he had been disquieted from his rest lol really the diviner wasn’t happy either she was tricked by Saul

was definately a bad move all around

 

[DavidTree]

amen

“No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬

I love these things about Christ.

 

[Blik]

The House of God is Christ


Where is the Fathers House?

That is where our faith in he Lord comes in.

I love the fall feasts telling of the time when Christ returns, especially the Feast of Tabernacles. It tells of the new Jerusalem, so different from our world we know. I completely trust that world Jesus has prepared for us.

 

[DavidTree]

That is where our faith in he Lord comes in.

I love the fall feasts telling of the time when Christ returns, especially the Feast of Tabernacles. It tells of the new Jerusalem, so different from our world we know. I completely trust that world Jesus has prepared for us.

Have you read John ch 17 lately?

 

[Evmur]

Hello Aaron56,

The above is synonymous to 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, when the Lord appears in the atmosphere resurrecting the dead and where the living are changed immortal and glorified and caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air. At that point the entire church will be gathered in the air in one place at one time, where the Lord will take the entire group back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us.

When a believer dies, Jesus does not come to take them to the Father's, but their spirit immediately goes to be in the presence of the Lord. His promise to come and get us and to take us back to the Father's house, is when we will receive our immortal and glorified bodies, which is the Blessed Hope, the event that all believers should be anticipating and looking forward to and which is imminent.

The Lord's reference to "Let not your hearts be troubled" is an assurance and comfort from Him that believers will not go through the wrath of God that is going to come upon the whole inhabited world, which follows the gathering.

In the same message He warns us "in the world you will have tribulation"

Tribulation and God's wrath are 2 things different.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I love these things about Christ.

amen what’s not to love in him brother !! I love that he loves YOU

 

[Ahwatukee]

In the same message He warns us "in the world you will have tribulation"

Tribulation and God's wrath are 2 things different.

Hello Evmur,

Yes, we have already established this and I am in agreement with you in that, believers from the on-set of the church till this present day are experiencing tribulations. God's wrath/tribulation comes after the church is gathered which is what believers are not appointed to suffer and which is what Jesus is referring to when He says, "Let not your hearts be troubled." Because the gathering of the church is going to take place prior to that time of trouble/wrath. So, when I speak about tribulation, I'm speaking about God's time period of wrath, the tribulation period, where all of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will take place.

 

[rayzor]

 

[Ahwatukee]

View attachment 231215

Matthew 13:21 is speaking about the common trials and tribulation which come as a result of our faith.

Matthew 24:21 is speaking about the great tribulation, which is the time of God's wrath when the seals, trumpets and bowl judgements will be taking place leading up to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. Believers within the church will not be on the earth during that time of God's tribulation.