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Re: Do Jews Have a Divine Right in the Promised Land?
do we have this sorted out yet?
[answer forthcoming later]
Do Jews Have a Divine Right in the Promised Land?
- Thread starter RedTent
- Start date
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Re: Do Jews Have a Divine Right in the Promised Land?
do we have this sorted out yet?
[answer forthcoming later]
^ NONSENSE - ANTICHRIST TEACHING - JEWISH FABLES ^
^ CHRISTIAN ZIONISM - HERETICAL DOCTRINE ^
.............
FACT: Israel was promised to become a great nation < ACCOMPLISHED IN EGYPT
Genesis 35:11
And God said to him, "I am God Almighty; be fruitful and increase in number. A nation and a community of nations will come from you, and kings will be among your descendants.
Genesis 47
26And Joseph made it a law over the land of Egypt to this day, that Pharaoh should have the fifth part, except the land of the priests only, which became not Pharaoh's. 27 And Israel dwelled in the land of Egypt, in the country of Goshen; and they had possessions therein, and grew, and multiplied exceedingly.
Exodus 1:7
but the Israelites were exceedingly fruitful; they multiplied greatly, increased in numbers and became so numerous that the land was filled with them.
Acts 7:17
"As the time drew near for God to fulfill his promise to Abraham, the number of our people in Egypt had greatly increased.
FACT: Israel possessed the land God promised:
Joshua 21:43-45
"So the LORD gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it. And the LORD gave them rest on every side, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers, and no one of all their enemies stood before them; the LORD gave all their enemies into their hand. Not one of the good promises which the LORD had made to the house of Israel failed; all came to pass. "
Joshua 23:14-15
"Now behold, today I am going the way of all the earth, and you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one word of all the good words which the LORD your God spoke concerning you has failed; all have been fulfilled for you, not one of them has failed. "It shall come about that just as all the good words which the LORD your God spoke to you have come upon you, so the LORD will bring upon you all the threats, until He has destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you. "
Joshua 24:28
Then Joshua dismissed the people, each to his inheritance.
2 Samuel 8:3
David defeated Hadadezer...as he went to restore his rule at the River [Euphrates].
1 Kings 4:21
Now Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the [Euphrates] River to the land of the Philistines and to the border of Egypt; they brought tribute and served Solomon
2 Chronicles 9:26
And he was the ruler over all the kings from the Euphrates River even to the land of the Philistines, and as far as the border of Egypt.
Nehemiah 9:8
And Thou didst find Abraham's heart faithful before Thee, and didst make a covenant with him to give him the land of the Canaanite, of the Hittite and the Amorite, of the Perizzite, the Jebusite, and the Girgashite-- to give it to his descendants. And Thou hast fulfilled Thy promise, for Thou art righteous.
Jeremiah 11:5
"in order to confirm the oath which I swore to your forefathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey, as it is this day." Then I answered and said, "Amen, O LORD."
Ezekiel 20:42
And you will know that I am the LORD, when I bring you into the land of Israel, into the land which I swore to give to your forefathers.
Acts 7:17
But as the time of the promise was approaching which God had assured to Abraham, the people increased and multiplied in Egypt
Acts 13:19
And when He had destroyed seven nations in the land of Canaan, He distributed their land as an inheritance-- all of which took about four hundred and fifty years.
FACT: Babylonian Captivity lasted 70 years
Jeremiah 25:9-12
"I will summon all the peoples of the north and my servant Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon," declares the Lord, "and I will bring them against this land and its inhabitants and against all the surrounding nations. I will completely destroy them and make them an object of horror and scorn, and an everlasting ruin. I will banish from them the sounds of joy and gladness, the voices of bride and bridegroom, the sound of millstones and the light of the lamp. This whole country will become a desolate wasteland, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years. "But when the seventy years are fulfilled, I will punish the king of Babylon and his nation, the land of the Babylonians, for their guilt," declares the Lord, "and will make it desolate forever."
FACT: Babylonian Captivity ended (for those who cared to return) upon the decree of Cyrus in c. 538 B.C.
Jeremiah 29:10
This is what the Lord says: "When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfil my gracious promise to bring you back to this place."
FACT: - God kept His gracious promise - THE NEW COVENANT - given to them when BACK in their Land exactly as He promised - JESUS.
Jeremiah 31
31Behold, the days come, said the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was an husband to them, said the LORD: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, said the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people
Romans 11:27
And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."
2 Corinthians 3:3
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
1 Thessalonians 4:9
Now about your love for one another we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other.
Hebrews 8:10
This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
2 Corinthians 3:6
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Hebrews 8:8
But God found fault with the people and said: "The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.
Hebrews 10:16
This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."
Hebrews 10:17
Then he adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more."
Mark 14:24
"This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many," he said to them.
Luke 22:20
In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
1 Corinthians 11:25
In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me."
^ CHRISTIAN ZIONISM - HERETICAL DOCTRINE ^
.............
FACT: Israel was promised to become a great nation < ACCOMPLISHED IN EGYPT
Genesis 35:11
And God said to him, "I am God Almighty; be fruitful and increase in number. A nation and a community of nations will come from you, and kings will be among your descendants.
Genesis 47
26And Joseph made it a law over the land of Egypt to this day, that Pharaoh should have the fifth part, except the land of the priests only, which became not Pharaoh's. 27 And Israel dwelled in the land of Egypt, in the country of Goshen; and they had possessions therein, and grew, and multiplied exceedingly.
Exodus 1:7
but the Israelites were exceedingly fruitful; they multiplied greatly, increased in numbers and became so numerous that the land was filled with them.
Acts 7:17
"As the time drew near for God to fulfill his promise to Abraham, the number of our people in Egypt had greatly increased.
FACT: Israel possessed the land God promised:
Joshua 21:43-45
"So the LORD gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it. And the LORD gave them rest on every side, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers, and no one of all their enemies stood before them; the LORD gave all their enemies into their hand. Not one of the good promises which the LORD had made to the house of Israel failed; all came to pass. "
Joshua 23:14-15
"Now behold, today I am going the way of all the earth, and you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one word of all the good words which the LORD your God spoke concerning you has failed; all have been fulfilled for you, not one of them has failed. "It shall come about that just as all the good words which the LORD your God spoke to you have come upon you, so the LORD will bring upon you all the threats, until He has destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you. "
Joshua 24:28
Then Joshua dismissed the people, each to his inheritance.
2 Samuel 8:3
David defeated Hadadezer...as he went to restore his rule at the River [Euphrates].
1 Kings 4:21
Now Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the [Euphrates] River to the land of the Philistines and to the border of Egypt; they brought tribute and served Solomon
2 Chronicles 9:26
And he was the ruler over all the kings from the Euphrates River even to the land of the Philistines, and as far as the border of Egypt.
Nehemiah 9:8
And Thou didst find Abraham's heart faithful before Thee, and didst make a covenant with him to give him the land of the Canaanite, of the Hittite and the Amorite, of the Perizzite, the Jebusite, and the Girgashite-- to give it to his descendants. And Thou hast fulfilled Thy promise, for Thou art righteous.
Jeremiah 11:5
"in order to confirm the oath which I swore to your forefathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey, as it is this day." Then I answered and said, "Amen, O LORD."
Ezekiel 20:42
And you will know that I am the LORD, when I bring you into the land of Israel, into the land which I swore to give to your forefathers.
Acts 7:17
But as the time of the promise was approaching which God had assured to Abraham, the people increased and multiplied in Egypt
Acts 13:19
And when He had destroyed seven nations in the land of Canaan, He distributed their land as an inheritance-- all of which took about four hundred and fifty years.
FACT: Babylonian Captivity lasted 70 years
Jeremiah 25:9-12
"I will summon all the peoples of the north and my servant Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon," declares the Lord, "and I will bring them against this land and its inhabitants and against all the surrounding nations. I will completely destroy them and make them an object of horror and scorn, and an everlasting ruin. I will banish from them the sounds of joy and gladness, the voices of bride and bridegroom, the sound of millstones and the light of the lamp. This whole country will become a desolate wasteland, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years. "But when the seventy years are fulfilled, I will punish the king of Babylon and his nation, the land of the Babylonians, for their guilt," declares the Lord, "and will make it desolate forever."
FACT: Babylonian Captivity ended (for those who cared to return) upon the decree of Cyrus in c. 538 B.C.
Jeremiah 29:10
This is what the Lord says: "When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfil my gracious promise to bring you back to this place."
FACT: - God kept His gracious promise - THE NEW COVENANT - given to them when BACK in their Land exactly as He promised - JESUS.
Jeremiah 31
31Behold, the days come, said the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was an husband to them, said the LORD: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, said the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people
Romans 11:27
And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."
2 Corinthians 3:3
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
1 Thessalonians 4:9
Now about your love for one another we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other.
Hebrews 8:10
This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
2 Corinthians 3:6
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Hebrews 8:8
But God found fault with the people and said: "The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.
Hebrews 10:16
This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."
Hebrews 10:17
Then he adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more."
Mark 14:24
"This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many," he said to them.
Luke 22:20
In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
1 Corinthians 11:25
In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me."
To be a people chosen by God would mean a people that represent God. The Europeans Jews that currently occupy Palestine are far from that. You just need to look at how they conducted themselves during the invasion to see they do not represent God.
The Haganah forces were surrounding the village on three sides, he recalls, and firing in the air before entering and expelling its people forcefully. The houses were burnt down, as per the orders the armed forces had received. According to the veteran, he heard a confession by a Haganah officer after the occupation of Burayr that he had shot a Palestinian girl in the head after raping her. It was later revealed, said Neumann, that the girl had indeed been raped.
Israeli army veterans admit role in massacres of Palestinians in 1948
http://christianchat.com/christian-news-forum/65680-mass-palestinian-grave-found-tel-aviv.html
They are there as a punishment from God just as the Roman were before them.
The Haganah forces were surrounding the village on three sides, he recalls, and firing in the air before entering and expelling its people forcefully. The houses were burnt down, as per the orders the armed forces had received. According to the veteran, he heard a confession by a Haganah officer after the occupation of Burayr that he had shot a Palestinian girl in the head after raping her. It was later revealed, said Neumann, that the girl had indeed been raped.
Israeli army veterans admit role in massacres of Palestinians in 1948
http://christianchat.com/christian-news-forum/65680-mass-palestinian-grave-found-tel-aviv.html
They are there as a punishment from God just as the Roman were before them.
The land is for the chosen. I think that is where we agree. Who are the chosen is where we disagree and a better question. It is obvious they are no longer the chosen. You just need to see how they refer to Jesus in their text to see that. Thus to answer the question posed in the thread, no they do not have a divine right because they are no longer the chosen ones. They lost that when they rejected Jesus teachings. God kicked them out not long after that.
D
When I see news reports from credible news sources reporting this with actual proof I will research it to determine it’s credibility. So for the only news sources I have found reporting this are from sources with an obvious bias for islam. Concerning the Jews being restored to their land we must remember they are restored while in unbelief, so we should not expect perfection from them.
Eze 36:22-38 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited. Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it. Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock. As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.
It appears to me that this prophecy is being fulfilled before our eyes!
Eze 36:22-38 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited. Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it. Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock. As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.
It appears to me that this prophecy is being fulfilled before our eyes!
Of course we know who you mean Drett, your promotion of Palestinian rehtoric has not gone un-noticed, so I know its not the JEws who you are thinking of!
Yes God punished the Jews when they were enslaved by the Babylonians, but did you read Ezekiel chapter 4 and see what the terms were, here are verses 4 and 6.
Ezekiel 4:4-6 “Now lie on your left side and place the sins of Israel on yourself. You are to bear their sins for the number of days you lie there on your side. You will bear Israel’s sins for 390 days – one day for each year of their sin. After that, turn over and lie on your right side for 40 days – one day for each year of Judah’s sin.”
The punishment for being enslaved without a ruler was 360 years, initially 430 years, but reduced by 70 for time served.
Conditions were Jews were to return, rebuild and repent, but they did not do that, so God was extremely angry with them, so invoked the 7 times punishment , See following verses from Leviticus 26
26:18 “And if in spite of this, you still disobey me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over.”
26:21“If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins.”
26:23-24“And if you fail to learn a lesson from this and continue your hostility toward me, then I myself will be hostile toward you, and I will personally strike you seven times over for your sins.”
26;27-28“If after this you still refuse to listen and still remain hostile toward me, then I will give full vent to my hostility. I will punish you seven times over for your sins.”
which extended their enslavement without a ruler and land for 2520 years. This ended just before 1948, now they have their land back with self rule again.
Yes God punished the Jews when they were enslaved by the Babylonians, but did you read Ezekiel chapter 4 and see what the terms were, here are verses 4 and 6.
Ezekiel 4:4-6 “Now lie on your left side and place the sins of Israel on yourself. You are to bear their sins for the number of days you lie there on your side. You will bear Israel’s sins for 390 days – one day for each year of their sin. After that, turn over and lie on your right side for 40 days – one day for each year of Judah’s sin.”
The punishment for being enslaved without a ruler was 360 years, initially 430 years, but reduced by 70 for time served.
Conditions were Jews were to return, rebuild and repent, but they did not do that, so God was extremely angry with them, so invoked the 7 times punishment , See following verses from Leviticus 26
26:18 “And if in spite of this, you still disobey me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over.”
26:21“If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins.”
26:23-24“And if you fail to learn a lesson from this and continue your hostility toward me, then I myself will be hostile toward you, and I will personally strike you seven times over for your sins.”
26;27-28“If after this you still refuse to listen and still remain hostile toward me, then I will give full vent to my hostility. I will punish you seven times over for your sins.”
which extended their enslavement without a ruler and land for 2520 years. This ended just before 1948, now they have their land back with self rule again.
B
Need more information. Who are the current chosen ones? God kicked who out and when did this occur? You carry no detail as to who and what you talk about. You're very difficult to follow. Instead of saying "They got kicked out" say who they is!
Can you clear some things up so I have a proper understanding as to what you are saying?
Can you clear some things up so I have a proper understanding as to what you are saying?
H
Actually I think you're right on target, Redtent. Obviously we live in the physical world, and when Christ said to give to the poor, that would mean giving them money (which is obviously of the physical world) to take care of their physical needs. Jesus also clearly came into the flesh. He also died in the flesh and was raised in the flesh. He didn't leave his body behind there in the tomb. That body is what was raised from the dead.
The question to that is how did it happen? Was it divine intervention or was it a matter of men trying to force something into the Bible that is not really there? Was it because someone decided to write a piece of paper to declare that the land that WAS ALREADY BEING LIVED ON now belonged to someone else? Was the land stolen by hook and crook? Can you say that the land was NOT taken by a wicked deed? Would you feel all that great if someone else wrote a piece of paper saying the land was no longer yours,you are to give it up,and you have no rights to because someone else said so? Can anyone show me it wasn't done by THEFT?
drett
let's pretend for a moment that i swallow "they hate us for our freedoms".
let's pretend for a moment that i consider you are functioning, thinking human being.
let us remember that i must tell you there is NO OTHER NAME BY WHICH MEN MAY BE SAVED - THAT NAME IS ISA- JESUS CHRIST Who is the God. The Creator. The Only God.
let us assume for a moment that THAT GOD - I AM- knows what is happening in this world.
I Am KNOWS.
let us not pretend He doesn't.
HE DOES
Justice will be done drett.
let's pretend for a moment that i swallow "they hate us for our freedoms".
let's pretend for a moment that i consider you are functioning, thinking human being.
let us remember that i must tell you there is NO OTHER NAME BY WHICH MEN MAY BE SAVED - THAT NAME IS ISA- JESUS CHRIST Who is the God. The Creator. The Only God.
let us assume for a moment that THAT GOD - I AM- knows what is happening in this world.
I Am KNOWS.
let us not pretend He doesn't.
HE DOES
Justice will be done drett.
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