Did other people inhabit the earth before we did?

[pjharrison]

God does not threat in great detail. He just states I will destroy you. Those verses have great detail, because it is what God had actually done.

Example: Sodom

God sent His angels to destroy Sodom with no great detail warning, other than it was wicked and perverted.

Jeremiah 4 explains humans were destroyed, all life was destroyed including cities. and then the earth was void from God's destruction.

There was a war and Judah and Jerusalem lost.
Jerimiah 4: 7-10
7 A lion has come out of his lair;
a destroyer of nations has set out.
He has left his place
to lay waste your land.
Your towns will lie in ruins
without inhabitant.
8 So put on sackcloth,
lament and wail,
for the fierce anger of the Lord
has not turned away from us
9 “In that day,” declares the Lord,
“the king and the officials will lose heart,
the priests will be horrified,
and the prophets will be appalled.”

10 Then I said, “Alas, Sovereign Lord! How completely you have deceived this people and Jerusalem by saying, ‘You will have peace,’ when the sword is at our throats!

 

[jimd]

WHY?

I have the original Hebrew and Satan is not mentioned. The Jews today do not use the English word Satan. Clearly, that IS NOT HIS REAL NAME!! And clearly God did not reveal his real name because God called him the ADVERSARY!!

He is also referred to as the tempter and deceiver but never a heavenly angel. Who is your worst adversary, tempter and deceiver? Have you ever heard "we are our own worst enemy"?

 

[UnderGrace]

You don't know much concerning actual science it appears. The dirt in our yards is full of bacteria. Now, if our dirt has bacteria, it is a safe bet the dirt used to create Adam also had bacteria.

WHY?

It's how we actually decompose back to dirt. Bacteria eats the flesh. And we know Adam was destined to become dirt [since he sinned], and how could he decompose without bacteria? Obviously, God being God could for see Adam would sin and at death would need to decompose. So clearly, Adam's dirt had bacteria like our dirt has bacteria!!

I think you are the one that needs a science lesson and that is what I already stated. Bacteria were present but it is the elements that are being referred to in "dust"

The human body is made from materials found on the surface of the ground, scientist have found them to be almost in exact proportions. These minerals actually sustain us.

Bacteria are not only decomposers but they are also essential to our bodies health, so you make a big assumption the God only made bacteria as decomposers in preparation for the fall of man.

When referring to dust we are referring to the elements, carbon, oxygen, hydrogen potassium etc., the microbes are secondary part that is why the word dust is used. We return to these elements not to bacteria.

He did not make us from just bacteria that is just silly.
Dust to dust.

 

[UnderGrace]

Oh darn, I missed most of the silliness. I'll catch it on the rerun. At least the popcorn will be fresh.

Yeah, it is all silly and worse.

 

[glf1]

I'm referring to this verse: Genesis 6:4 reads as follows: The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.

You'll also notice shortly after God name it so man didn't live as long and also the world flood came quickly with Noah as if he was trying to remove something from earth. It's pretty interesting to look into.

The angels of God Jesus is referring to are actual angels, not demons. Also it doesn't say the sons of God married the daughters of man. I'm thinking it was not so kind...

Hey! blueluna5... PTL!
The sons of God mentioned in the book of Genesis, can not be fallen angels! Even though so many seem to want angels to be such.
2 Pet 2:4 "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment."
Angels that sinned were cast into hell! No way they could be with the daughters of men, from there! Heb 1 tells us that the Lord doesn't call angels the sons of God. Also, in the natural world; ie... the daughters of men; crossbreeds that are actually born are sterile, like mules.
Perhaps you see a distinction between angels that sinned verses some other reason for them coming to the earth; that is answered in Jude 1:6 "And the angels that kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved under everlasting chains of darkness unto the judgment of the great day." Looks like the exact same consequence as those who sinned. But is has always been up to us what we allow ourselves to believe and sadly, error feels exactly the same as the truth does or the suicide bombers that are killing themselves for their false god, would know better, don't you think?
Maranatha!

 

[tanakh]

"In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth"

In the Hebrew (if you actually believe in God one should know their HEBREW) , verse 1 of Genesis 1 absolutely means there is a period of time called the "BEGINNING," and during this time period God created the heavens and earth (as in 100% complete).

Here is an explanation from a Hebrew/Jew point of view on the correct way to interpret Genesis 1:1 and 1:2...

(What exactly does the book of Genesis tell us? That YEHOVAH God created the universe -- the heavens and the earth -- in a period of time called, simply, "the beginning." How long ago that primeval creation occurred we are not told anywhere in the Scripture. To determine that, YEHOVAH God has given us brains and intellect!)

Verse 2 represents a separate recreation not connected to verse 1 "the Beginning."

(Verse two of Genesis, chapter one, continues:

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep" (King James Version).

Is this verse describing the ORIGINAL creation as being formless and void? If so, it would seem a contradiction. Verse one tells us YEHOVAH created the heavens and the earth. When YEHOVAH creates something, it is beautiful, grand, and majestic. In the 38th chapter of the book of Job, we read:

"Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof? When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (vs. 4-7).

***If the original earth had been created a chaotic ruin, formless and void, the angels would not have "sang together" or have "shouted for joy.")***




It cracks me up to read/hear so-called preachers claim they know the word of God. But, do preachers actually know the Hebrew better than the Jews? It's a tragedy knowing on Sunday's and Wednesday's, true followers of God are being misled by ignorant men who actually believe what they preach is the absolute truth. And these men don't even have the first clue to what the Hebrew means throughout the Old Testament!!

It will be a very sad day when we all gather before Christ and have to give an account of just HOW STUPID SOME OF US REALLY ARE AND WHY WE MISLED PEOPLE TO UNTRUTHFUL KNOWLEDGE!!

The main problem is the use of literalism. The bible deals with spiritual matters and that is where the truth is found. People confuse truth and facts. They are not always necessarily the same thing when it comes to scripture. When passages appear to contradict each other the tendency is to create explanations as to why and call them 'interpretations' when very often they should be seen as additional scripture created to maintain a particular view or opinion. In Revelation we are warned not to add or subtract anything from the book and yet preachers and believers alike do this with with the whole Bible on a daily basis and often claim its from the Holy Spirit instead of themselves. The Holy Spirit uses scripture alone to teach us by using existing scripture not by creating more to 'fill' in any inconvenient gaps we come across.

 

[rlm68]

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end


Let's look at this verse by verse to see what exactly God did do as in destruction:

Verse 23 indicates the final end result.

Verse 24 indicates the power of God made even the mountains tremble and hills to move.

Verse 25 indicates LIFE in human form has ended and the birds were nowhere to be found.

Verse 26 indicates everything that flourished and prospered was now a barren wasteland, including the once thriving cities built by humans all destroyed by the FIERCE ANGER of God {that you claim God did not do as such, while scripture is specific of God's FIERCE ANGER).

Verse 27 indicates God admitting causing destruction that resulted in what we read in verses 23 - 26.


For you to claim, "God did nothing," while 2 verses state otherwise, is quite alarming!!

 

[rlm68]

There was a war and Judah and Jerusalem lost.
Jerimiah 4: 7-10
7 A lion has come out of his lair;
a destroyer of nations has set out.
He has left his place
to lay waste your land.
Your towns will lie in ruins
without inhabitant.
8 So put on sackcloth,
lament and wail,
for the fierce anger of the Lord
has not turned away from us
9 “In that day,” declares the Lord,
“the king and the officials will lose heart,
the priests will be horrified,
and the prophets will be appalled.”

10 Then I said, “Alas, Sovereign Lord! How completely you have deceived this people and Jerusalem by saying, ‘You will have peace,’ when the sword is at our throats!

But verses 23-27 are not about a simple defeat of war, but of God destroying all cities, all humans, all animals, everything till even the land was void and without form.

There never was a battle with bows, swords, fire that could match today's nuclear weapons. And even with today's nuclear weapons, we cannot destroy the entire world through bombing it. Yes, the result of nuclear weapons would caused radiation and we would likely die, but the land not bombed still would look the same as it did before other parts of land was bombed.

But God is claiming in verses 23-27 that even the land was without form and void of all life due to HIS FIERCE ANGER!!

No way could the weaponry of ancient Hebrew come even close to that!!

 

[rlm68]

He is also referred to as the tempter and deceiver but never a heavenly angel. Who is your worst adversary, tempter and deceiver? Have you ever heard "we are our own worst enemy"?

I absolutely agree, that we do more to ourselves than the Adversary does to us!!

 

[jimd]

I absolutely agree, that we do more to ourselves than the Adversary does to us!!

Who is the adversary?

 

[rlm68]

I think you are the one that needs a science lesson and that is what I already stated. Bacteria were present but it is the elements that are being referred to in "dust"

The human body is made from materials found on the surface of the ground, scientist have found them to be almost in exact proportions. These minerals actually sustain us.

Bacteria are not only decomposers but they are also essential to our bodies health, so you make a big assumption the God only made bacteria as decomposers in preparation for the fall of man.

When referring to dust we are referring to the elements, carbon, oxygen, hydrogen potassium etc., the microbes are secondary part that is why the word dust is used. We return to these elements not to bacteria.

He did not make us from just bacteria that is just silly.
Dust to dust.

hahaha, I was merely making a point that God knew Adam would sin, and then die, and needed bacteria to decompose.

Of course we need bacteria!!

If you catch a cold and then I catch it, it's good to have previous bacteria from other colds to fight new colds.

I love micro biology and the basic study of micro-organisms!!

 

[rlm68]

The main problem is the use of literalism. The bible deals with spiritual matters and that is where the truth is found. People confuse truth and facts. They are not always necessarily the same thing when it comes to scripture. When passages appear to contradict each other the tendency is to create explanations as to why and call them 'interpretations' when very often they should be seen as additional scripture created to maintain a particular view or opinion. In Revelation we are warned not to add or subtract anything from the book and yet preachers and believers alike do this with with the whole Bible on a daily basis and often claim its from the Holy Spirit instead of themselves. The Holy Spirit uses scripture alone to teach us by using existing scripture not by creating more to 'fill' in any inconvenient gaps we come across.

AMEN!!
I could not agree with you more!!

I merely began with that in this thread knowing the reaction it would set off to set it up with Jeremiah 4: 23-27.

In my opinion, and of course in many many renowned Hebrew and biblical scholars opinions, verse 23-27 of Jeremiah explains in great detail how we go from a perfect completed earth in Genesis 1:1 to a earth without form and void under water in complete darkness in Genesis 1:2.

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end

 

[rlm68]

My absolute favorite version of Jeremiah 23-27 comes from the CJB (Complete Jewish Bible):

23 I looked at the land - it was unformed and void - and at the sky - it had no light.
24 I looked at the mountains, and they shook - all the hills moved back and forth.
25 I looked, and there was no human being; all the birds in the air had fled.
26 I looked, and the fertile fields were a desert, all the land's cities were razed to the ground at the presence of ADONAI, before his burning anger.
27 For here is what ADONAI says: "The whole land will be desolate (although I will not destroy it completely).

The Complete Jewish Bible explains the Hebrew scripture better than anything else I have read!!

 

[rlm68]

Who is the adversary?

From the Book of Isaiah:

morning star, son of the dawn

 

[tanakh]

Suppliment

In my last post I mentioned literalism. Another curse Preachers and others suffer from is selective amnesia. This takes the form of
forgetting or rather ignoring parts of the bible that either don't fit into their pre conceived ideas or they are reluctant to share with
their hearers anything that may disturb them. One thing they firmly believe is that ignorance is bliss. They spend a few years at Seminaries and never allow their knowledge to filter down to their congregations.

 

[jimd]

From the Book of Isaiah:

morning star, son of the dawn

John Calvin commentary

12. How art thou fallen from heaven! Isaiah proceeds with the discourse which he had formerly begun as personating the dead, and concludes that the tyrant differs in no respect from other men, though his object was to lead men to believe that he was some god. He employs an elegant metaphor, by comparing him to Lucifer, and calls him the Son of the Dawn; {1} and that on account of his splendor and brightness with which he shone above others. The exposition of this passage, which some have given, as if it referred to Satan, has arisen from ignorance; for the context plainly shows that these statements must be understood in reference to the king of the Babylonians. But when passages of Scripture are taken up at random, and no attention is paid to the context, we need not wonder that mistakes of this kind frequently arise. Yet it was an instance of very gross ignorance, to imagine that Lucifer was the king of devils, and that the Prophet gave him this name. But as these inventions have no probability whatever, let us pass by them as useless fables.

 

[glf1]

John Calvin commentary

12. How art thou fallen from heaven! Isaiah proceeds with the discourse which he had formerly begun as personating the dead, and concludes that the tyrant differs in no respect from other men, though his object was to lead men to believe that he was some god. He employs an elegant metaphor, by comparing him to Lucifer, and calls him the Son of the Dawn; {1} and that on account of his splendor and brightness with which he shone above others. The exposition of this passage, which some have given, as if it referred to Satan, has arisen from ignorance; for the context plainly shows that these statements must be understood in reference to the king of the Babylonians. But when passages of Scripture are taken up at random, and no attention is paid to the context, we need not wonder that mistakes of this kind frequently arise. Yet it was an instance of very gross ignorance, to imagine that Lucifer was the king of devils, and that the Prophet gave him this name. But as these inventions have no probability whatever, let us pass by them as useless fables.

Hey! Jim... PTL!
Scripture that is inspired by the Lord means what is says! The Lord has magnified his word above all his name and means exactly what he says! To twist scripture to mean what you want it to; what is doesn't say; is how men go into error, sadly. Everyone has their own opinion, but lets let God be true and every man a liar. Was the king of the Babylonians cast out of his grave? Or did that not mean what it says too? Yikes at such twisting of scripture to mean something other than what the Spirit says. If it was a parable, then some interpretation might be understood, but not here. With the standard of interpretation that is being used here, one can make the scriptures say whatever they want. For whatever reason; like making it agree to agree with one's own personal belief. Sorry that this sounds harsh brother, but I'll let God be true and trust the scriptures to mean exactly what the Spirit is telling us. If we use other sources beside scripture for our understanding and none of us has the whole truth; then their error, which we all have, will be compounded with our own. Praise the Lord in the name of Jesus; our God and King!
Maranatha!

 

[UnderGrace]

From the Book of Isaiah:

morning star, son of the dawn

The adversary is not the morning star.

See John Calvin

repeat:

John Calvin commentary

12. How art thou fallen from heaven!

Isaiah proceeds with the discourse which he had formerly begun as personating the dead, and concludes that the tyrant differs in no respect from other men, though his object was to lead men to believe that he was some god. He employs an elegant metaphor, by comparing him to Lucifer, and calls him the Son of the Dawn; {1} and that on account of his splendor and brightness with which he shone above others. The exposition of this passage, which some have given, as if it referred to Satan, has arisen from ignorance; for the context plainly shows that these statements must be understood in reference to the king of the Babylonians.

But when passages of Scripture are taken up at random, and no attention is paid to the context, we need not wonder that mistakes of this kind frequently arise. Yet it was an instance of very gross ignorance, to imagine that Lucifer was the king of devils, and that the Prophet gave him this name. But as these inventions have no probability whatever, let us pass by them as useless fables.

Once again what you are pushing the teaching of Luciferians

 

[trofimus]

The Lord has magnified his word above all his name

I would not use this translation, its very strange and dangerous. God is more than Bible.

Less dangerous translations:

"..Thou hast magnified thy holy name above every thing"
Septuagint

"you have exalted above all things your name and your word"
ESV

"You have magnified Your word according to all Your name"
NASB

"You have exalted your name and your promise above everything else"
CSB

"You have exalted Your name and Your promise above everything else."
HCSB

 

[John146]

I would not use this translation, its very strange and dangerous. God is more than Bible.

Less dangerous translations:

"..Thou hast magnified thy holy name above every thing"
Septuagint

"you have exalted above all things your name and your word"
ESV

"You have magnified Your word according to all Your name"
NASB

"You have exalted your name and your promise above everything else"
CSB

"You have exalted Your name and Your promise above everything else."
HCSB

When we magnify the word, Jesus is seen more clearly. A magnifying glass allows one to see the details of the subject more clearly and defined. We magnify the word, not worship it. We worship Jesus and what He has done because His word has been magnified.