Did Jesus Have The Human Sinful Nature?

[garee]

But that doesn't prove that he had a sin nature. Sin nature is a having a spirit that is separated from GOD (spiritual death). Christ never had that.

God the faithful Creator (not creature) has no nature, a beginning. God never could be a man as us given a temporal spirit. He as typified by a man is our Melchisedec…. remains supernatural without mother and father beginning of days or end of eternal Spirit life.

3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.Hebrew 7

His corrupted flesh as that seen was used for a one time demonstration of the work of His unsen Spirit poring out his Spirit as if it was literal blood . Of that flesh the Son of man declared it profits for nothing .When the one time demonstration ended he gave us a clear warning not to be faithless as Thomas who he used as a example of "no faith" .the evil generation of natural unconverted man kind.

No fleshly Jesus we walk by faith (the unseen eternal) not by sight as that seen the temporal

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.2 Corinthians 5:16-17

Ask one self how much more ? The veil is rent.The antichrists as those who glory in the things seen need more in order to go above that which is written.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No, it isn't. Paul said he was spiritually alive before he sinned and then spiritually died in Ro 7.

That verse doesn't prove your point. He could have been referring to the time in his youth before he sat under Gamaliel when he really learned what the law meant. Remember he was born in Tarsus, and was sent to Jerusalem to study under Gamaliel.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Death proves he had the fallen sin nature.

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
Romans 5:12 NIV
https://bible.com/bible/111/rom.5.12.NIV

Explain how. Don't just regurgitate talking points from your study.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Explain how. Don't just regurgitate talking points from your study.

It is self explanatory. "All" means everyone. It doesn't say everyone except Jesus:

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
Romans 5:12 NIV
https://bible.com/bible/111/rom.5.12.NIV

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It is self explanatory. "All" means everyone. It doesn't say everyone except Jesus:

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
Romans 5:12 NIV
https://bible.com/bible/111/rom.5.12.NIV

Actually, the Greek word translated as all doesn't always or of necessity mean every. It depends on the context. Sometimes it just means a representative sample that signifies the whole. For example, Joshua 7:5 says that all Israel stoned Achan. Does that mean that every person in Israel cast a stone at him? Impossible.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Actually, the Greek word translated as all doesn't always or of necessity mean every. It depends on the context. Sometimes it just means a representative sample that signifies the whole. For example, Joshua 7:5 says that all Israel stoned Achan. Does that mean that every person in Israel cast a stone at him? Impossible.

It means each and every person who has been and will ever be born. That includes Jesus.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-
Romans 5:12 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/rom.5.12.NASB

When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.
Romans 5:12 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/rom.5.12.NLT

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It means each and every person who has been and will ever be born. That includes Jesus.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-
Romans 5:12 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/rom.5.12.NASB

When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.
Romans 5:12 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/rom.5.12.NLT

All that says is that sin entered the world through Adam, then his death because of his sin passed to all men (because Adam was not able to give them life), and then all men sinned because of their spiritually dead condition.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

All that says is that sin entered the world through Adam, then his death because of his sin passed to all men (because Adam was not able to give them life), and then all men sinned because of their spiritually dead condition.

It does not say all men sinned because of their condition. It says all men sinned when Adam sinned.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It does not say all men sinned because of their condition. It says all men sinned when Adam sinned.

Point that out in the verse. Here's a literal translation

Through this, even as sin entered into the world through one man, and death [entered] through [Adam's] sin, thus also death passed into all men, upon which all sinned. Romans 5:12​

​

Here's how I read it

• Sin entered the world through Adam
• Spiritual death entered through his sin (Adam didn't physically die the same day he sinned, but he did spiritually die)
• Spiritual death passed to all men
• All men sinned upon being spiritually dead

 

[Deade]

All that says is that sin entered the world through Adam, then his death because of his sin passed to all men (because Adam was not able to give them life), and then all men sinned because of their spiritually dead condition.

Here is Heb. 2:17 in the more modern ESV: Heb. 2:17 "Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people." Now that is not stuttering, that just says it plain out "in every respect."

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Here is Heb. 2:17 in the more modern ESV: Heb. 2:17 "Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people." Now that is not stuttering, that just says it plain out "in every respect."

The word every is πᾶς (pas). It's also translated all. Below is copied from above so I don't have to re-type it.

Actually, the Greek word translated as all doesn't always or of necessity mean every. It depends on the context. Sometimes it just means a representative sample that signifies the whole. For example, Joshua 7:5 says that all Israel stoned Achan. Does that mean that every person in Israel cast a stone at him? Impossible.

 

[shrume]

It is self explanatory. "All" means everyone. It doesn't say everyone except Jesus:

In your beliefs, do these include Jesus too?

Rom 3:
10) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13) Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14) Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15) Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16) Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17) And the way of peace have they not known:
18) There is no fear of God before their eyes.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

i would like to see that command he is breaking. scripture and verse?

Matthew 12:31-32
"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Matthew 1:23 “Behold the virgin shall conceive, and she shall bear a son, and they shall call his Name Emmanuail, which is translated, 'Our God is with us'“.

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 10:30 - I and my Father are one.

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
John 8:58 "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"
Exodus 3:13-14 And Moses saith unto God, 'Lo, I am coming unto the sons of Israel, and have said to them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you, and they have said to me, What is His name? what do I say unto them?' 14. And God saith unto Moses, 'I AM THAT WHICH I AM;' He saith also, 'Thus dost thou say to the sons of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.'

 

[OstrichSmiling]

That's a strawman argument since that is not my argument. I have argued here for the hypostatic union.

Unfortunately "strawman argument" as a rebuttal is used far too often by persons found to be in error in their Exegesis. You've not argued for the Hypostatic union. In fact, your posts and those commenting with concern for their content demonstrate you are doing the precise opposite of that.
“The hypostatic union is the mysterious joining of the divine and the human in the one person of Jesus.”

That Adam is not the son of man but Jesus is...one of us...the son of man.

Hebrew's blood heritage passed through the Matrilineal line.Were your argument that Jesus was divine and human you would not continually insist Jesus was human. His fleshly appearance would have given him the Hebrew tracing through his mother who bore him. However, he was begotten upon her by God's holy spirit. Not man's seed. Therefore, contrary to your argument in this thread prior, Jesus did not have a sinful nature even though he did not sin. He had a divine nature from the moment he entered Mary's womb by God's will.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

No, God created everything "very good" Gen 1:31. Satan made himself evil.

How so? Where in scripture are we informed Satan is creator?

 

[OstrichSmiling]

 

[Dino246]

It is self explanatory. "All" means everyone. It doesn't say everyone except Jesus:

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
Romans 5:12 NIV
https://bible.com/bible/111/rom.5.12.NIV

To be consistent then, you must believe that Jesus sinned, because "all sinned". Yet Jesus was "without sin".

Case closed. Have a lovely weekend.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Here is Heb. 2:17 in the more modern ESV: Heb. 2:17 "Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people." Now that is not stuttering, that just says it plain out "in every respect."

If you wish to build a doctrine, it is imperative that all relevant Scriptures be brought together. What does "in all things" (translated here as "in every respect") mean?

All it means that Jesus of Nazareth, who had descended from Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, and David, was fully human, and a Jew under the Law of Moses, therefore subject to the Law. "His brothers" (or His brethren) means His Jewish brethren, not His immediate family.

It does NOT mean that He could, or would sin, or had a tainted sin nature like every other human being. That is already EXCLUDED by this verse: For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (Heb 4:15)

Does this mean that the God-Man was tempted to sin, but would not sin, or does it mean that the God-Man had nothing within Him which could or would respond to temptation? If we believe that Jesus is God (and that is exactly what Scripture says), then we must apply these Scriptures to Him as much as to the Father and the Holy Spirit: Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man... This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. (James 1:13; 1 John 1:5)

Does anyone see the foolishness of those who imagine that Jesus of Nazareth was anything less than the God-Man, and that He could therefore tell the Jews that He was their God -- the "I AM" of Exodus?

 

[OstrichSmiling]

But that is not addressing the topic here. What about Jesus having a sin nature?

This being your thread starter point, how about you post the scripture that reports Jesus had a sin nature. You imply he did so with the opening post and the passage from Hebrews 2. Later in this thread you claim Jesus had a sin nature he just avoided sinning.
The way such professions are to work is, you accepting that the onus is upon you to prove your points that you're stating.
As in , Jesus had a sin nature he just didn't sin. In order to substantiate that claim you'd have to prove it is arrived at through scripture.

Please post all that applies to sustain those aforementioned claims.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

As an assist to this discussion I thought it might help to provide one source I found that reports , with scripture, what the "sin nature" is. This so that we may proceed from that point of understanding as pertains to its description through Biblical sources.

God Questions: What is the sin nature?

Question: "What is the sin nature?"

Answer: The sin nature is that aspect in man that makes him rebellious against God. When we speak of the sin nature, we refer to the fact that we have a natural inclination to sin; given the choice to do God’s will or our own, we will naturally choose to do our own thing.

Proof of the sin nature abounds. No one has to teach a child to lie or be selfish; rather, we go to great lengths to teach children to tell the truth and put others first. Sinful behavior comes naturally. The news is filled with tragic examples of mankind acting badly. Wherever people are, there is trouble. Charles Spurgeon said, “As the salt flavors every drop in the Atlantic, so does sin affect every atom of our nature. It is so sadly there, so abundantly there, that if you cannot detect it, you are deceived.”

The Bible explains the reason for the trouble. Humanity is sinful, not just in theory or in practice but by nature. Sin is part of the very fiber of our being. The Bible speaks of “sinful flesh” in Romans 8:3. It’s our “earthly nature” that produces the list of sins in Colossians 3:5. And Romans 6:6 speaks of “the body ruled by sin.” The flesh-and-blood existence we lead on this earth is shaped by our sinful, corrupt nature.

The sin nature is universal in humanity. All of us have a sinful nature, and it affects every part of us. This is the doctrine of total depravity, and it is biblical. All of us have gone astray (Isaiah 53:6). Paul admits that “the trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin” (Romans 7:14). Paul was in his “sinful nature a slave to the law of sin” (Romans 7:25). Solomon concurs: “Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, / no one who does what is right and never sins” (Ecclesiastes 7:20). The apostle John perhaps puts it most bluntly: “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8).

Even children have a sin nature. David rues the fact that he was born with sin already at work within him: “Surely I was sinful at birth, / sinful from the time my mother conceived me” (Psalm 51:5). Elsewhere, David states, “Even from birth the wicked go astray; / from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies” (Psalm 58:3).

Where did the sin nature come from? Scripture says that God created humans good and without a sinful nature: “God created man in His own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them” (Genesis 1:27). However, Genesis 3 records the disobedience of Adam and Eve. By that one action, sin entered into their nature. They were immediately stricken with a sense of shame and unfitness, and they hid from God’s presence (Genesis 3:8). When they had children, Adam’s image and likeness was passed along to his offspring (Genesis 5:3). The sin nature manifested itself early in the genealogy: the very first child born to Adam and Eve, Cain, became the very first murderer (Genesis 4:8).

From generation to generation, the sin nature was passed down to all of humanity: “Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned” (Romans 5:12). This verse also presents the unsettling truth that the sin nature leads inexorably to death (see also Romans 6:23 and Ephesians 2:1).

Other consequences of the sin nature are hostility toward God and ignorance of His truth. Paul says, “The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God” (Romans 8:7–8). Also, “the person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit” (1 Corinthians 2:14).

There is only one Person in the history of the world who did not have a sin nature: Jesus Christ. His virgin birthallowed Him to enter our world while bypassing the curse passed down from Adam. Jesus then lived a sinless life of absolute perfection. He was “the Holy and Righteous One” (Acts 3:14) who “had no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21). This allowed Jesus to be sacrificed on the cross as our perfect substitute, “a lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:19). John Calvin puts it in perspective: “For certainly, Christ is much more powerful to save than Adam was to ruin.”

It is through Christ that we are born again. “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit” (John 3:6). When we are born of Adam, we inherit his sin nature; but when we are born again in Christ, we inherit a new nature: “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!” (2 Corinthians 5:17).

We don’t lose our sin nature once we receive Christ. The Bible says that sin remains in us and that a struggle with that old nature will continue as long as we are in this world. Paul bemoaned his own personal struggle in Romans 7:15–25. But we have help in the battle—divine help. The Spirit of God takes up residence in each believer and supplies the power we need to overcome the pull of the sin nature within us. “No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God” (1 John 3:9). God’s ultimate plan for us is total sanctification when we see Christ (1 Thessalonians 3:13; 1 John 3:2).

Through His finished work on the cross, Jesus satisfied God’s wrath against sin and provided believers with victory over their sin nature: “‘He himself bore our sins’ in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness” (1 Peter 2:24). In His resurrection, Jesus offers life to everyone bound by corrupt flesh. Those who are born again now have this command: “Count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus” (Romans 6:11).

Recommended Resource: Basic Theology by Charles Ryrie