Did Jesus Have The Human Sinful Nature?

[jaybird88]

But that is not what the angel told Mary. The angel said He was her son.

it was 400 years before Augustine so he wasnt there to explain the original sin doctrine to the angel.

 

[GodisONE]

But that is not what the angel told Mary. The angel said He was her son.

it actually states [[to a son meaning male/boy], not to her own son.]]

Matthew 1:
21 She will give birth [[to a son]], and you are to name him Yeshua, [which means `ADONAI saves,'] because he will save his people from their sins."

 

[DevotiontoBible]

it was 400 years before Augustine so he wasnt there to explain the original sin doctrine to the angel.

What Augustine had right was original sin. What Augustine had wrong was that it was passed by the sexual act. Jesus had original sin (the sin nature) because He was the son of man.

 

[GodisONE]

i think the question would be, are there two kinds of mankinds? a son of the Most High man, and a man like we are today. Adam was created a son of the Most High, but was a man as well. we know there were big changes after the fall. before he walked with the Most High, walked in the garden, no death, etc. after the fall, bacame like us. if Jesus was the 2nd Adam it makes more sense to me He would have been the same but the events would have been flip flopped. He was born like us, tempted like Adam, resisted what Adam did not, ascended back to the son of the Most High state of being.

I like this perspective!!

 

[DevotiontoBible]

it actually states [[to a son meaning male/boy], not to her own son.]]

Matthew 1:
21 She will give birth [[to a son]], and you are to name him Yeshua, [which means `ADONAI saves,'] because he will save his people from their sins."

A surrogate mother doesn't give birth to a son but to someone else' son. You are saying Mary was only a surrogate mother not a real mother.

 

[GodisONE]

A surrogate mother doesn't give birth to a son but to someone else' son. You are saying Mary was only a surrogate mother not a real mother.

that is exactly what I am saying.

if she wasn't anything else, she [her part of the birth story] would be like the deity who Constantine worshipped [Apollo][which we also know from Book of Revelation as the king demon of the bottomless pit that will be unleashed during the Tribulation!!

but if you understood who Constantine actually worshipped, since he was PAGAN [as were the majority of Romans], you would notice his influence upon the KJV Bible. Yeshua's birth, and other things are similar to Constantine's Apollo. Lucifer [Latin term added to Isaiah, a Hebrew text before Latin actually existed], the trinity added to Matthew 28:19, are just some of a few influences he made to the actual WORD of GOD.

it would have been a true benefit to have been able to see original writings and Books not included [Enoch (which Yeshua quotes several times), Asher (king David speaks of in Psalms and another Book), and few others like actual Gospel of both Peter and Thomas] would have given us a broader perspective and a more definitive series of truths than just the 66 Books we have now!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The sinful nature is not having sin in you but the damage sin has done to human nature when Adam sinned. It is a non moral weakened condition of human nature which makes us mortal.

Christ did not have that damaged condition caused by Adam's sin. He had power over death and could have lived forever if it had been the father's will.

And you have it backwards: we are weak because we are mortal; we are not mortal because we are weak. We are mortal because GOD withdrew from man. He never withdrew from Christ until the cross.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But not until we reach the age of accountability. Before that we are spiritually alive to God even though we have the sinful nature. Aborted babies and young children who die are in heaven not damned:

Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.
Romans 7:9 NIV
https://bible.com/bible/111/rom.7.9.NIV

You really don't think very deeply about what you say. Children sin well before they reach the age of accountability.

What cult are you a part of that produced the study that you are reading from? I tried to find this teaching on Assembly of GOD websites, but they don't teach this confused doctrine that you're teaching.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You are dismissing Christ's sacrifice if you say he did not have a sin nature. What was God going to prove if Jesus could breeze through here without being tempted to sin.

It's not necessary to have a sin nature to be tempted to sin. Adam was perfect before he was tempted. Christ likewise.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

What Augustine had right was original sin. What Augustine had wrong was that it was passed by the sexual act. Jesus had original sin (the sin nature) because He was the son of man.

You have it just as wrong as Augustine and Calvin did. You have no credible explanation for what the sin nature is. You just blurt out something and say that proves it.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

that is exactly what I am saying.

if she wasn't anything else, she [her part of the birth story] would be like the deity who Constantine worshipped [Apollo][which we also know from Book of Revelation as the king demon of the bottomless pit that will be unleashed during the Tribulation!!

but if you understood who Constantine actually worshipped, since he was PAGAN [as were the majority of Romans], you would notice his influence upon the KJV Bible. Yeshua's birth, and other things are similar to Constantine's Apollo. Lucifer [Latin term added to Isaiah, a Hebrew text before Latin actually existed], the trinity added to Matthew 28:19, are just some of a few influences he made to the actual WORD of GOD.

it would have been a true benefit to have been able to see original writings and Books not included [Enoch (which Yeshua quotes several times), Asher (king David speaks of in Psalms and another Book), and few others like actual Gospel of both Peter and Thomas] would have given us a broader perspective and a more definitive series of truths than just the 66 Books we have now!!

You are not a Christian if you deny the NT Scriptures, virgin birth and the Trinity. GodisOne, are you Jewish?

 

[DevotiontoBible]

You really don't think very deeply about what you say. Children sin well before they reach the age of accountability.

What cult are you a part of that produced the study that you are reading from? I tried to find this teaching on Assembly of GOD websites, but they don't teach this confused doctrine that you're teaching.

It is in the AOG systematic theology book they use for their Bible college. I will try to upload the pages if you want.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Christ did not have that damaged condition caused by Adam's sin. He had power over death and could have lived forever if it had been the father's will.

And you have it backwards: we are weak because we are mortal; we are not mortal because we are weak. We are mortal because GOD withdrew from man. He never withdrew from Christ until the cross.

But the fact that He did not use His divine power to stay alive and gave it up proves He had our sin damaged fallen nature.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

It's not necessary to have a sin nature to be tempted to sin. Adam was perfect before he was tempted. Christ likewise.

But Adam was not a descendant of any one but Christ was a descendant of sinful man with a sin nature.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It is in the AOG systematic theology book they use for their Bible college. I will try to upload the pages if you want.

You don't have to do that. I'll look for it online. Thx

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But Adam was not a descendant of any one but Christ was a descendant of sinful man with a sin nature.

But that doesn't prove that he had a sin nature. Sin nature is a having a spirit that is separated from GOD (spiritual death). Christ never had that.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But the fact that He did not use His divine power to stay alive and gave it up proves He had our sin damaged fallen nature.

All that proves is that he was human.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

You don't have to do that. I'll look for it online. Thx

It starts on p. 320 under the hypostatic union.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

But that doesn't prove that he had a sin nature. Sin nature is a having a spirit that is separated from GOD (spiritual death). Christ never had that.

No, it isn't. Paul said he was spiritually alive before he sinned and then spiritually died in Ro 7.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

All that proves is that he was human.

Death proves he had the fallen sin nature.

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
Romans 5:12 NIV
https://bible.com/bible/111/rom.5.12.NIV