Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
- Thread starter Marcelo
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I did answer. I will make it more clear.
NO, because Jesus is the judge, all judgment has been given to Him, if any humans does that they are usurping the role of Jesus.
John 5:22-23, " 22 “For the Father judges no one, but has given all the judgment to the Son, 23 that all should value the Son even as they value the Father. He who does not value the Son does not value the Father who sent Him."
NO, because Jesus is the judge, all judgment has been given to Him, if any humans does that they are usurping the role of Jesus.
John 5:22-23, " 22 “For the Father judges no one, but has given all the judgment to the Son, 23 that all should value the Son even as they value the Father. He who does not value the Son does not value the Father who sent Him."
First you say the law of Moses is not the law of God ("Jesus was talking about the law of Moses not God's law. But then later you say:
"Law of Moses" is short for "The law of God given to the Hebrews through Moses".
I find that confusing. Are you saying that "God's law" is the Ten Commandments?[/QUOTE]
Hi, C.W.L.I.M., welcome to Christian Chat.
God's laws are effective laws.
Before the New Covenant, "law of Moses" equated with "law of God". So, the law of Moses WAS the law of God.
The law of God today is the New Covenant doctrine. Take note that New Covenant doctrine is not the same as New Testament doctrine. Jesus taught obedience to the scribes and Pharisees, animal sacrifice, foot washing, etc, but these things don't apply to Christians today.
"Law of Moses" is short for "The law of God given to the Hebrews through Moses".
I find that confusing. Are you saying that "God's law" is the Ten Commandments?[/QUOTE]
Hi, C.W.L.I.M., welcome to Christian Chat.
God's laws are effective laws.
Before the New Covenant, "law of Moses" equated with "law of God". So, the law of Moses WAS the law of God.
The law of God today is the New Covenant doctrine. Take note that New Covenant doctrine is not the same as New Testament doctrine. Jesus taught obedience to the scribes and Pharisees, animal sacrifice, foot washing, etc, but these things don't apply to Christians today.
First you say the law of Moses is not the law of God ("Jesus was talking about the law of Moses not God's law. But then later you say:
"Law of Moses" is short for "The law of God given to the Hebrews through Moses".
I find that confusing. Are you saying that "God's law" is the Ten Commandments?[/QUOTE]
God's Law, the Torah, are the first five books of the Bible. last time I checked , the 10 Commands are in there...
"Law of Moses" is short for "The law of God given to the Hebrews through Moses".
I find that confusing. Are you saying that "God's law" is the Ten Commandments?[/QUOTE]
God's Law, the Torah, are the first five books of the Bible. last time I checked , the 10 Commands are in there...
CORRECTION OF POST # 8863
ChristWhoLivesInMe said:
Hi, C.W.L.I.M., welcome to Christian Chat.
God's laws are effective laws.
Before the New Covenant, "law of Moses" equated with "law of God". So, the law of Moses WAS the law of God.
The law of God today is the New Covenant doctrine. Take note that New Covenant doctrine is not the same as New Testament doctrine. Jesus taught obedience to the scribes and Pharisees, animal sacrifice, foot washing, etc, but these things don't apply to Christians today.
ChristWhoLivesInMe said:
Hi, C.W.L.I.M., welcome to Christian Chat.
God's laws are effective laws.
Before the New Covenant, "law of Moses" equated with "law of God". So, the law of Moses WAS the law of God.
The law of God today is the New Covenant doctrine. Take note that New Covenant doctrine is not the same as New Testament doctrine. Jesus taught obedience to the scribes and Pharisees, animal sacrifice, foot washing, etc, but these things don't apply to Christians today.
I see what you are asserting Marcelo,
But, it is more the situation that "Lawlessness" is what we are seeing;
It is my hope that you will take the time to read the verses below. In many ways your original post may be addressed satisfactorily that Yahshua did announce the requirement in keeping the Law/commandments of God till the end of time in that He spoke plainly of their requirement in His day and also prophesied of the contempt of them in our day! Being a prophet Himself, He saw our day and saw the lawlessness that has overcome so many by the "doctrines of demons"....:
Sincerely
SG
Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
1 John 3:4
Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
Ephesians 2:2-3
in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
2 Thessalonians 2:7
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
Matthew 7:21-23
"Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?" And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"
Matthew 24:11-12
Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
2 Peter 2:10
and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,
Jeremiah 4:22
' For My people are foolish,
They have not known Me.
They are silly children,
And they have no understanding.
They are wise to do evil,
But to do good they have no knowledge.'
Jeremiah 9:3
“ And like their bow they have bent their tongues for lies.
They are not valiant for the truth on the earth.
For they proceed from evil to evil,
And they do not know Me,” says the LORD.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.
2 Peter 1:5-7
But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
2 Peter 1:10
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;
2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:14-17
Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
Deuteronomy 13:3-4
you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him.
-
1
- Show all
Hi, S.Gardner!
Yes, Jesus preached the law of Moses during His walk on Earth, but after the resurrection He used mainly Paul to preach salvation by grace through faith and to release us from the law of Moses.
Just a question: Do you wear tefillin on your head, according to the law of God given to the Hebrews through Moses?
Yes, Jesus preached the law of Moses during His walk on Earth, but after the resurrection He used mainly Paul to preach salvation by grace through faith and to release us from the law of Moses.
Just a question: Do you wear tefillin on your head, according to the law of God given to the Hebrews through Moses?
Hey Marcelo,
Any thoughts on the prophecies of Yahshua/Jesus where he indicated the "lawlessness" of the last days and how those prophecies themselves indicate His will regarding our obedience to the commandments today?
I know why you ask your question of me. Does the recommendation of Yahshua about the mote in our own eyes first, still hold any meaning to you?
SG
-
1
- Show all
True Christians who believe in salvation by (true) grace through (true) faith, apart from the Law, are not lawless, they just follow a new law.
Nobody can be found guilty for not observing an obsolete law. When we say "God's law" it is obvious that we are referring to effective laws.
I am not judging you, I just asked if you wear phylacteries on your head. Obviously you don't and that means the laws of God given to the Hebrews through Moses are no longer in force.
Nobody can be found guilty for not observing an obsolete law. When we say "God's law" it is obvious that we are referring to effective laws.
I am not judging you, I just asked if you wear phylacteries on your head. Obviously you don't and that means the laws of God given to the Hebrews through Moses are no longer in force.
-
1
- Show all
God divides them here
1 Kings 2:3 And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself.
And here
Deuteronomy 10:2 And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark.
Away from here
Deuteronomy 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
The 10 commandments, put "into" the ark and the law was put it "on the outside beside it".
These show that God Himself separated them from each other not only physically in the one case, but also in the naming of them into separate categories.
These are unequivocal statements/verses. Please give me the same type statements/verses to support your position, if you can. I couldn't find any.
1 Kings 2:3 And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself.
And here
Deuteronomy 10:2 And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark.
Away from here
Deuteronomy 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
The 10 commandments, put "into" the ark and the law was put it "on the outside beside it".
These show that God Himself separated them from each other not only physically in the one case, but also in the naming of them into separate categories.
These are unequivocal statements/verses. Please give me the same type statements/verses to support your position, if you can. I couldn't find any.
-
2
- Show all
Here:
and again I did not say "replace" I said;
"I said Jesus was the true sacrifice that the sacrificial law was made for. Was it not?"
Psalms 40:6-7, " 6 In sacrifice and offering you have not delighted, but you have given me an open ear. Burnt offering and sin offering you have not required. 7 Then I said, “Behold, I have come; in the scroll of the book it is written of me:
Hebrews 10:5-6, " 5 Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me; 6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure.
Genesis 22:7-8, " 7 And Isaac said to his father Abraham, “My father!” And he said, “Here I am, my son.” He said, “Behold, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?” 8 Abraham said, “God will provide for himself the lamb for a burnt offering, my son.” So they went both of them together.
and again I did not say "replace" I said;
"I said Jesus was the true sacrifice that the sacrificial law was made for. Was it not?"
Psalms 40:6-7, " 6 In sacrifice and offering you have not delighted, but you have given me an open ear. Burnt offering and sin offering you have not required. 7 Then I said, “Behold, I have come; in the scroll of the book it is written of me:
Hebrews 10:5-6, " 5 Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me; 6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure.
Genesis 22:7-8, " 7 And Isaac said to his father Abraham, “My father!” And he said, “Here I am, my son.” He said, “Behold, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?” 8 Abraham said, “God will provide for himself the lamb for a burnt offering, my son.” So they went both of them together.
My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man’s anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you. Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. James 1:19-22
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. Hebrews 4:12-13
These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. Jude 1:12-19
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. Hebrews 4:12-13
These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. Jude 1:12-19
YOU say I am indebted. The Word does not. The Word says Jesus died to forgive me when I transgress the law,
or put another way
When I have" transgressed the law", also known as" having committed a sin", I repent of that sin, I pray for forgiveness through the blood He shed I am forgiven, and I am then clean to go through the veil Jesus rent into the holy of holies and talk to God. I wish you could see the love in all that. And you can rest assured just as I follow all the commands/laws given in the New Covenant, I start with the law of love and it is with me every step of the way. It seems so weird I would be a "law follower" but when it came to the law of love, you think I decided "not this one". I truly do not understand how you believe.
or put another way
When I have" transgressed the law", also known as" having committed a sin", I repent of that sin, I pray for forgiveness through the blood He shed I am forgiven, and I am then clean to go through the veil Jesus rent into the holy of holies and talk to God. I wish you could see the love in all that. And you can rest assured just as I follow all the commands/laws given in the New Covenant, I start with the law of love and it is with me every step of the way. It seems so weird I would be a "law follower" but when it came to the law of love, you think I decided "not this one". I truly do not understand how you believe.
-
1
- Show all
E
Yes
If you are not under grace, your under the curse
If your under grace. Then you are not under the curse
If your tryi g to follow the lW in either circumstance, you better follow it all, because that is what is required,
You cN not day you obey the law when you don’t. The requirement of the law never changed,
If you are not under grace, your under the curse
If your under grace. Then you are not under the curse
If your tryi g to follow the lW in either circumstance, you better follow it all, because that is what is required,
You cN not day you obey the law when you don’t. The requirement of the law never changed,