Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[DeighAnn]

the sacrifices are written in jots and tittles.

Q:
what became of 'not one jot or tittle removed' ?

A:
we died to the law in order to belong to another

He is my Husband

The New Covenant, Why did the old husband have to die? To give way for the new one. NEW AND IMPROVED. REMOVED WERE THE PARTS NOT ACCOMPLISHING GODS WILL, REPLACED WITH PARTS THAT DID. All the statutes and rituals and ordinances and the sacrificing of the "best" a man had and all that that entailed every year, the circumcision on the 8th day WERE REPLACED by ALL THE WORK CHRIST DID. Do you see how much "lighter" our yoke is now?

IF one jot or tittle was removed from the old law, YOU WOULD NOT EVER BE ABLE TO FIND OUT JUST HOW MUCH LIGHTER THAT YOKE IS. YOU compare what "they" did before "GRACE" came and you yourself, by every jot and tittle of the written word, Can drop down on your knees and PRAISE THE LORD FOR THE GIFT OF GRACE THAT WITHOUT EVER JOT AND TITTLE YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A CLUE HOW THANKFUL YOU WERE. SO THEY ARE RIGHT WhERE THEY NEED TO BE FOR THE PURPOSE OF OUR EDIFICATION. IT IS SO SIMPLE YET IS BEING MADE SOOOOOOOO HARD. I JUST DON'T GET IT.

I apologize for the yelling. It is nothing more than intense frustration at things God says so plainly and with any amount of common sense is just so clear. I really am sorry but I am hoping that some one sees and says Praise you My God for the Huge, super light (it is now) in no way a burden, freeing, forgiving, guiding, full of life, Grace and law.

They are hanging on the 2 commandments of Love the Lord God and Love your neighbor and the Spirit that dwells inside you, directs you along those paths. I think, just my thoughts here, that according to the amount of wisdom and knowledge you have gotten from seeking it out in the Word, it directs you, the words you choose, the thoughts brought forward, and that all are moved in are different ways.

We died to the law, We died to the old law because it died, We married a new law a much much much better law. Read the old one. It was a burden (I hate to even type those words but the NEW ONE, well, Grace Rocks)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The New Covenant, Why did the old husband have to die? To give way for the new one. NEW AND IMPROVED. REMOVED WERE THE PARTS NOT ACCOMPLISHING GODS WILL, REPLACED WITH PARTS THAT DID. All the statutes and rituals and ordinances and the sacrificing of the "best" a man had and all that that entailed every year, the circumcision on the 8th day WERE REPLACED by ALL THE WORK CHRIST DID. Do you see how much "lighter" our yoke is now?

IF one jot or tittle was removed from the old law, YOU WOULD NOT EVER BE ABLE TO FIND OUT JUST HOW MUCH LIGHTER THAT YOKE IS. YOU compare what "they" did before "GRACE" came and you yourself, by every jot and tittle of the written word, Can drop down on your knees and PRAISE THE LORD FOR THE GIFT OF GRACE THAT WITHOUT EVER JOT AND TITTLE YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A CLUE HOW THANKFUL YOU WERE. SO THEY ARE RIGHT WhERE THEY NEED TO BE FOR THE PURPOSE OF OUR EDIFICATION. IT IS SO SIMPLE YET IS BEING MADE SOOOOOOOO HARD. I JUST DON'T GET IT.

I apologize for the yelling. It is nothing more than intense frustration at things God says so plainly and with any amount of common sense is just so clear. I really am sorry but I am hoping that some one sees and says Praise you My God for the Huge, super light (it is now) in no way a burden, freeing, forgiving, guiding, full of life, Grace and law.

They are hanging on the 2 commandments of Love the Lord God and Love your neighbor and the Spirit that dwells inside you, directs you along those paths. I think, just my thoughts here, that according to the amount of wisdom and knowledge you have gotten from seeking it out in the Word, it directs you, the words you choose, the thoughts brought forward, and that all are moved in are different ways.

We died to the law, We died to the old law because it died, We married a new law a much much much better law. Read the old one. It was a burden (I hate to even type those words but the NEW ONE, well, Grace Rocks)

Thats good. When we yell at you you can know that is why we are yelling also.

The law comes as a whole

The commands PROVE your a sinner

The levitical shows you what must be accomplished for redemption and atonement

The ceremonial help teach what god has done, is doing and will do concerning our salvation.

It comes as a whole. YOU EITHER OBEY EVERY ASPECT, or you suffer the CURSE which comes from not obeying every jott and tittle.

You can not have it any other way.

 

[Yahshua]

I died to the law in order to live for God.



hmm we've heard that before:


Romans 7:1

Romans 7:4

Romans 7:6

the law has no authority over someone who has died.

I am crucified with Christ.

I died to the law in order to live for God.

If I build up again what has been destroyed I would truly be a lawbreaker.

no one is justified by the law.

did I receive the Spirit through the law? am I then perfected by it?

All true statements, but in context.


The law REQUIRES that I make a payment for my breach.


What is the law requiring of me at this point? Obedience to commandments? No...


Answer: Blood. The law requires my blood. Life is in the blood.


The cost is my life.


...As long as I am living I can't truly satisfy the payment of blood and so I remain in violation to the law.


By the full weight of authority, the Law hangs over me demanding my life as long as I live. Only my death will satisfy the payment.


<christ dies>


By faith, His blood (life) enters me, and I enter his body to be "crucified with Christ".


By faith in Christ, I die, satisfying what I owe.


The Law is no longer requiring any blood from me. I'm no longer on the ritual side of the law.


That part has no authority over me anymore. It can not require a blood payment from me because by faith I am now dead.

you didn't give a straight answer to any of my questions, but I take it that you believe Jeremiah is talking about Moses' Law with about 2/3 of the jots and tittles removed?


can you at least give a straight answer about whether that is your answer to that one question?

I can't get any straighter than answering "yes", "not" etc for your questions, so I doubt you'll actually be satisfied with any answer I give at this point because you don't agree with them.

Josh would have me believe, this means God sent His Son born in sin, in violation and condemnation, under judgement. because, 'idiom'


i suppose he thinks that's why Jesus was baptized? because beforehand He was full of sin, under judgement and worthy of condemnation? in which case baptism - a cleansing/purification ritual - was effective in cleansing the sin of the Messiah?


is it then the purification ritual of baptism that removes our sin?


perhaps he'll clarify that.

just asking questions.

Adam sinned.


All of humanity was in Adam when Adam sinned.


The Law. Requires. Adam's. Death.


Death is the judgment. Death is the condemnation.


Christ's SPIRIT is from above but Christ's FLESH is a descendant of Adam. See Luke 3:23


Christ's flesh had to die for the same reason why our flesh has to die. Adam's flesh must pay for Adam's sin.


"In Adam all die."


The payment is death. Blood. Giving of life. Death is the judgment. The condemnation.


...But the reason Christ had the full right to resurrect after death is because he lived in perfect obedience to The Law all his life. He didn't deserve to stay dead, unlike we who do (because we've also sinned like Adam).

Romans 8:3 [brackets mine]
For what the law could not do [TO JUSTIFY], in that it was weak through the flesh [Adam's], God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh [Adam's], and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh [Adam's]:

Upon resurrection, he can restart mankind without its bondage to the judgment (death) that was/is still on Adam's flesh. This is why he is called the SECOND ADAM. This is why the believer is hid in his body, like we were hid in Adam's body when he sinned.


"In Christ all (who believe) are made alive."


"Under the law" means judgment; condemnation. The judgment is death. Blood. Christ came in Adam's sinful flesh under judgment (death), yet did not sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

You just will not or can not accept the New Covenant or follow the order of events. You and those who believe like you refuse to leave the old covenant that Jesus came in, and move onto the New Covenant that the blood of Jesus brought in. Just like the Pharisees wouldn't give up that old law, neither will you. How you can't see or accept "changes" made is beyond me. It will remain beyond me. HUMBLE YOURSELF AND PRAY TO GOD TO open your eyes and that "THE LAW WILL BECOME ALIVE AND VALID IN YOUR LIFE" AND THE DEATH YOU SO SEE WILL BE TURNED TO THE LOVE THAT HAS REPLACED IT AND LET THE SPIRIT USE THOSE LAWS WRITTEN INSIDE YOUR HEART AND MIND TO PERFECT YOU AS YOU PROGRESS TOWARD YOUR MOST CHRISTLIKE STATE.

SMH

You have not heard a thing this man has told you.

 

[Victor1999]

Walk like him?

He was perfect. How well ate you at walking like him?

It's a life long process. We are infants in Christ and babies don't walk well either but are still encouraged to learn to walk. Our Father in Heaven also encourages us to learn to walk right with Him. Our weakness and stumblings are not an excuse to stop learning.

 

[Victor1999]

The Word of God has become a man and lived among us. HE IS THE LAW! And HE has given the HOLY SPIRIT to gentiles who did not keep or know the laws of the old covenant. If He approved of them then He will also approve of you if you live by faith.

 

[gb9]

All true statements, but in context.


The law REQUIRES that I make a payment for my breach.


What is the law requiring of me at this point? Obedience to commandments? No...


Answer: Blood. The law requires my blood. Life is in the blood.


The cost is my life.


...As long as I am living I can't truly satisfy the payment of blood and so I remain in violation to the law.


By the full weight of authority, the Law hangs over me demanding my life as long as I live. Only my death will satisfy the payment.


<christ dies>


By faith, His blood (life) enters me, and I enter his body to be "crucified with Christ".


By faith in Christ, I die, satisfying what I owe.


The Law is no longer requiring any blood from me. I'm no longer on the ritual side of the law.


That part has no authority over me anymore. It can not require a blood payment from me because by faith I am now dead.





I can't get any straighter than answering "yes", "not" etc for your questions, so I doubt you'll actually be satisfied with any answer I give at this point because you don't agree with them.




Adam sinned.


All of humanity was in Adam when Adam sinned.


The Law. Requires. Adam's. Death.


Death is the judgment. Death is the condemnation.


Christ's SPIRIT is from above but Christ's FLESH is a descendant of Adam. See Luke 3:23


Christ's flesh had to die for the same reason why our flesh has to die. Adam's flesh must pay for Adam's sin.


"In Adam all die."


The payment is death. Blood. Giving of life. Death is the judgment. The condemnation.


...But the reason Christ had the full right to resurrect after death is because he lived in perfect obedience to The Law all his life. He didn't deserve to stay dead, unlike we who do (because we've also sinned like Adam).

Romans 8:3 [brackets mine]
For what the law could not do [TO JUSTIFY], in that it was weak through the flesh [Adam's], God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh [Adam's], and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh [Adam's]:

Upon resurrection, he can restart mankind without its bondage to the judgment (death) that was/is still on Adam's flesh. This is why he is called the SECOND ADAM. This is why the believer is hid in his body, like we were hid in Adam's body when he sinned.


"In Christ all (who believe) are made alive."


"Under the law" means judgment; condemnation. The judgment is death. Blood. Christ came in Adam's sinful flesh under judgment (death), yet did not sin.

this is actually very good.

now, take it one step further, and TRUST Christ for salvation . when you speak truth like this, don't undercut it by turning around and running back the Sabbath, the commands of ordinances, and the Jewish festivals.

as John said in the last chapter of His Gospel, these things were written , so that you may believe ( in Jesus), and in believing, ( not command keeping), you may have eternal life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's a life long process. We are infants in Christ and babies don't walk well either but are still encouraged to learn to walk. Our Father in Heaven also encourages us to learn to walk right with Him. Our weakness and stumblings are not an excuse to stop learning.

Yep

But the law, and his righteousness requires perfection.

So we are a work in process..

And the law can not help us, all it can do is condemn us.

 

[Yahshua]

this is actually very good.

now, take it one step further, and TRUST Christ for salvation . when you speak truth like this, don't undercut it by turning around and running back the Sabbath, the commands of ordinances, and the Jewish festivals.

as John said in the last chapter of His Gospel, these things were written , so that you may believe ( in Jesus), and in believing, ( not command keeping), you may have eternal life.

Lol I read the first half of your second paragraph as was like, "yes agreement!" Then read the end of the paragraph and said, "argh!"

Oh well. That's a start.

Yes. Everything I posted is for justification/salvation.

For the rest of what you say, let me ask your opinion about what was going on in Acts regarding Paul.

Paul attended the feast of unleavened bread and rushed to get to feast of pentecost. Both are festivals. Why do you think he did this?

Just asking your opinion on it in relation to undercutting and turning back to such things.

 

[gb9]

Lol I read the first half of your second paragraph as was like, "yes agreement!" Then read the end of the paragraph and said, "argh!"

Oh well. That's a start.

Yes. Everything I posted is for justification/salvation.

For the rest of what you say, let me ask your opinion about what was going on in Acts regarding Paul.

Paul attended the feast of unleavened bread and rushed to get to feast of pentecost. Both are festivals. Why do you think he did this?

Just asking your opinion on it in relation to undercutting and turning back to such things.

Paul was a jewish man. if he choose to keep the feasts, then that is fine. if a gentile , now in modern day, wants to honor the festivals, or keep the Fri. evening to sat. evening Shabbat, then that is fine.

however, my issue come when judeaizers, called this because they try to convince Christians that they have to turn into an O.T. jew to properly serve Christ, when they tell me as a gentile, who was and is NEVER commanded to keep them that i must do so , then we have a issue, because that is 100% not true, nor Biblical

 

[Whispered]

Who does ths? Who says it is ok to break them? Why is it that lawyers always fall back on this nonsensical argument?

A lawyer would have to answer that one.

The real question is, and should be, do you obey all ten perfectly (not just the letter) and if you don’t then what is the consequence of your failing to keep the law?

Do the ten commands tell us how to keep them? Or did. jesus show us when he said we keep them by obeying th elaw of Love?

No one here is sayign its ok to break them. You people have to stop this nonsense. Because all your doing is trying to convince yourself that your right.

The ten commands are grounded in love. They are the moral commands for a society and the righteous commands for a God loving people.
I don't fail to keep the ten commandments. Do you?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A lawyer would have to answer that one.

So you make accusations but you cannot back your accusations?

The ten commands are grounded in love. They are the moral commands for a society and the righteous commands for a God loving people.
I don't fail to keep the ten commandments. Do you?

If you say you have no sin you decieve yourself

Those are johns words.

Me? No, I can’t keep them I am lucky if I keep the first command 24/7, let alone the rest of them. And even then, I am not gonna be so proud to think I can keep something God said I can not keep.

But if you think your sinless. I guess you do not need christ to begin with, So you are so far above the rest of us that we can not even keep up.. I think your in the wrong room

 

[NayborBear]

I believe we all should take a day of rest. And that was the origional purpose of the saterday rest.

But the sabbath tradition as given to Israel. No.

I haven't myself, nor seen anyone imply, at least in this thread, you must KEEP Friday sundown to Saturday sundown! NO ONE!
Problem is, you have so much prejudice AGAINST "any/EVERYthing" that even remotely HINTS ANYTHING Jewish?
Your judgement is "clouded." As so are others, in this thread.
EVERYTHING is flesh to you, concerning this! EVERYTHING!

Traditions of man, made the Word of God just AS void in the Mosaic Law, as it is in this "PREFECT Law of LOVE."

1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones(A "fleshly TEACHABLE heart"), are built up a spiritual house, "an HOLY priesthood", to offer up SPIRITUAL sacrifices, acceptable TO God BY Jesus Christ.

(sighs) But, because you are yet flesh? You see "spiritual sacrifice/s" as a "works for salvation" LEGALISTIC doctrine! And, it ISN'T!
It ISN'T at all!

 

[DeighAnn]

Interesting that you don't understand what is in it.

You better pray and repent for bearing false witness and judging against a child of God. God doesn't like it when you judge His servants. I am telling you, you are.

 

[Whispered]

It is not crystal clear to me that there is one covenant,
Leviticus 26:42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.
Leviticus 26:43 The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes.

Leviticus 26:44 And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.

Leviticus 26:45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

Leviticus 26:46 These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.
What is being proved right and wrong?

I think you make a very good observation with this.
There are 8 covenants in the bible. I looked it up. http://www.messianicassociation.org/ezine17-af.covenants.htm

 

[Whispered]

Hopefully you mean these commandments.

1. Repent—Matthew 4:17, Luke 13:3
2. Let not your heart be troubled—John 14:27, John 16:33, Matthew 6:25-26, Philippians 4:6-7
3. Follow me—Matthew 4:19
4. Rejoice—Matthew 5:12, (Also 2 Corinthians 6:10, 12:10, James 1:2-4)
5. Let your light shine—Matthew 5:16
6. Honor God’s law—Matthew 5:17-19
7. Be reconciled—Matthew 5:24-25
8. Do not commit adultery—Matthew 5:27-30
9. Keep your word—Matthew 5:33-37
10. Go the second mile—Matthew 5:38-42
11. Love your enemies—Matthew 5:44
12. Be perfect—Matthew 5:48
13. Practice secret disciplines (giving, praying, fasting)—Matthew 6:1-18
14. Lay up treasures in heaven—Matthew 6:19-21
15. Seek first the kingdom of God—Matthew 6:33
16. Judge not—Matthew 7:1-2
17. Do not throw your pearls to pigs—Matthew 7:6
18. Ask, seek, and knock—Matthew 7:7-8
19. Do unto others—Matthew 7:12
20. Choose the narrow way—Matthew 7:13-14
21. Beware of false prophets—Matthew 7:15
22. Pray for those who spread the word—Matthew 9:37-38
23. Be as shrewd as serpents—Matthew 10:16. (Also Romans 16:19)
24. Fear God. Do not fear man— Matthew 10:28 (Also Luke 12:4-5)
25. Listen to God’s voice—Matthew 11:15, 13:9, 13:43, Mark 4:23, Luke 14:35, 1 Kings 19:11-13
26.Take my yoke—Matthew 11:29
27. Honor your parents—Matthew 15:4
28. Beware of false teaching—Matthew 16:6, 11-12
29. Deny yourself—Luke 9:23 (Also Matthew 10:38 and Mark 8:34)
30. Do not despise little ones—Matthew 18:10
31. Go to Christians who offend you—Matthew 8:15 (Also Galatians 6:1)
32. Forgive offenders—Matthew 18:21-22 (Also Proverbs 19:11)
33. Beware of covetousness—Luke 12:15
34. Honor marriage—Matthew 19:6, 19:9
35. Lead by being a servant—Matthew 20:26-28
36. Make the church a house of prayer for all nations—Mark 11:17
37. Pray in faith—Matthew 21:21-22, John 15:7
38. Bring in the poor—Luke 14:12-14
39. Render unto Caesar—Matthew 22:19-21
40. Love the Lord—Matthew 22:37-38
41. Love your neighbor—Matthew 22:39
42. Be born again—John 3:7
43. Await my return—Matthew 24:42-44
44. Celebrate the Lord’s supper—Matthew 26:26-
45. Watch and pray—Matthew 26:41
46. Keep my commandments—John 14:15
47. Feed my sheep—John 21:15-16
48. Make and baptize disciples—Matthew 28:19
49. Teach disciples to obey—Matthew 28:20
50. Receive God’s power—Luke 24:49

What source did you find those at?

 

[DeighAnn]

now, take it one step further, and TRUST Christ for salvation

I think you need to work on your discernment skills. You just made a statement that "he doesn't trust Christ for his salvation" knowing that he says he does". What of the words he speaks do you find a lack of trust in Christ for salvation? Believe he believes in the New Covenant? The law of the kingdom of God? The law of love? How many more ways do you need to be told. Because you "can't see" or "can't believe" or just "refuse" to believe that the two go hand in hand, it is not possible and probable and right?

 

[NayborBear]

this is actually very good.

now, take it one step further, and TRUST Christ for salvation . when you speak truth like this, don't undercut it by turning around and running back the Sabbath, the commands of ordinances, and the Jewish festivals.

as John said in the last chapter of His Gospel, these things were written , so that you may believe ( in Jesus), and in believing, ( not command keeping), you may have eternal life.

Ya see? You are trusting Christ for "everlasting" salvation. I don't, nor shall I condemn you for that.
I not only have trusted in Christ for "everlasting" salvation(which I have already)! I have also, and am trusting He who "sent" Christ for "eternal" salvation. A salvation that isn't Christ's authority to give! ONLY God and the Father can give such.
Meaning you can ask the Father, in Christ's name?
But, more n likely, He'll send you HERE!
1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

(sighs) But, then? You'll be seeing yourself as "working for salvation."
Just as you now "see" others "working for salvation."
But, it isn't.

 

[DeighAnn]

The ministry of Jesus starts out with Satan TEMPTING Him. THE very first lesson from Our Lord and Saviour is:


Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

God came to earth HIMSELF and gave HIS laws. He has laws in the books of Moses. He has laws in the books of the prophets. He has laws in the Psalms. When God came to earth in the flesh as Jesus Christ, He had laws. God put HIS laws INSIDE US, not just in one place but TWO. Does any of this seem like they are going 'bye bye'????

Do you think that might be because Satan was going to try and make them no longer valid so that "everyone would be lawless just like him"??? Just follow that spirit inside you, hopefully its not an evil spirit, but if you have no law to guide you HOW DO YOU KNOW?

If it is the spirit inside us that "gives everything to us" HOW CAN WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENT BELIEFS?


Do not be deceived, for many shall come in my name claiming, Well, what do you think Satan would love to find when he gets cast down to earth Probably something like "YOU NO LONGER HAVE to obey ANY LAWS"


If someone tries to tell you we no longer have to abide by any laws, MARK THEM.

 

[Whispered]

So you make accusations but you cannot back your accusations?

I admit I'm a bit confused by that. What accusation did I make? You remember? You responded to my posting in your remarks in post #4,671? And highlighted the first part of my remarks. I've copied them and posted them here:I find it concerning that the ten commandments are treated with such disdain these days when they pertain to how we show respect and love and adoration for God. And also how we are to treat others in God's name.

You then asked in your response something about why lawyers respond that way. I'm not a lawyer therefore it would be your question that implied I am a lawyer. That would make your response the accusatory one I would think.

If you say you have no sin you decieve yourself

I'm a born again redeemed Christian. My sins were forgiven and were covered by the precious blood of my savior, and the father will never again hold them against me. I was a sinner but now I am found in the love and light and the hand of Christ.

Those are johns words.

Me? No, I can’t keep them I am lucky if I keep the first command 24/7, let alone the rest of them. And even then, I am not gonna be so proud to think I can keep something God said I can not keep.

But if you think your sinless. I guess you do not need christ to begin with, So you are so far above the rest of us that we can not even keep up.. I think your in the wrong room

I think you are very angry in this discussion. Why are you angry?
Why would you speak that way to me? What have I done to upset you so much?