Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
You and I have had this dance before. I don't know what group brainwashed you against the truth. I did not say what you are saying, don't put lies in my mouth. Either you honestly don't understand the difference, or you're lying. I hope it's the first one. You have been brainwashed by someone and can't see the truth of the Word.
-
1
- Show all
Neither. It was sarcasm to illustrate a point. It is too bad you were unable to recognize it as such.
It can't be both ways at the same time: being the Saviour, either those whom Christ died for must be saved or Christ didn't die for everyone. It's just that simple and there is no third alternative.
It can't be both ways at the same time: being the Saviour, either those whom Christ died for must be saved or Christ didn't die for everyone. It's just that simple and there is no third alternative.
Why does it bother so much that Jesus did not shed His blood for the nonelect? All the nonelect do is believe and behave badly anyway.
1 Timothy 6:3
1 Whosoever are servants under the yoke, let them count their masters worthy of all honour; lest the name of the Lord and his doctrine be blasphemed. 2 But they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but serve them the rather, because they are faithful and beloved, who are partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. 3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to that doctrine which is according to godliness. 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but sick about questions and strifes of words; from which arise envies, contentions, blasphemies, evil suspicions, 5 Conflicts of men corrupted in mind, and who are destitute of the truth, supposing gain to be godliness.
1 Timothy 6:3
1 Whosoever are servants under the yoke, let them count their masters worthy of all honour; lest the name of the Lord and his doctrine be blasphemed. 2 But they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but serve them the rather, because they are faithful and beloved, who are partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. 3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to that doctrine which is according to godliness. 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but sick about questions and strifes of words; from which arise envies, contentions, blasphemies, evil suspicions, 5 Conflicts of men corrupted in mind, and who are destitute of the truth, supposing gain to be godliness.
-
1
- Show all
Genesis 25:23 -
and He declared to her: “Two nations are in your womb [i.e. "before they were BORN / being not yet born"
], and two peoples from within you will be separated; one people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger.”
[He had/has a specific purpose for the one..., right.]
and He declared to her: “Two nations are in your womb [i.e. "before they were BORN / being not yet born"
], and two peoples from within you will be separated; one people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger.”[He had/has a specific purpose for the one..., right.]
Consider the following:
1Cor15:1-2 (in the "resurrection" chapter) -
Moreover, brethren, I [Paul] declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
By [/BY MEANS OF] which also ye are saved [...]" (i.e. by means of the gospel Paul declared--no one is suggesting we are "saving ourselves/themselves")
(the rest of the passage spelling out the vital aspect of "His resurrection"... and speaks of "your faith" 2x--verses 14,17--speaking of the fact that "IF Christ be NOT RAISED / be NOT RISEN"--some did not believe in "resurrection of the dead"--[He WAS / DID though! (the point of this text)], "your faith" ['the faith OF YOU'] "is in vain, you are still in your sins" [making the point about the vital aspect of His resurrection... NOT making the point that "your faith" [/'the faith OF YOU']" is unrequired]).
I'm just (here) making the point that Scripture itself speaks of "THY faith," of "YOUR faith," of "THEIR faith"
(and "THE faith" which is "THAT BODY OF TRUTH" found in written scripture following [and concerning also] His death / burial / resurrection / exaltation, which we aren't discussing here, exactly)...
...and that these contexts need to be examined also.
Here's a sample LISTING (there may be others):
"thy faith" -
Matt9:22
Matt15:28
Mk5:34
Mk10:52
Lk7:50
Lk8:48
Lk17:19
Lk18:42
Lk22:32
Phm1:6 [,1:5]
"your faith" -
Mk9:29
Rom1:8
1Cor15:14,17 [my example at top of this post]
2Cor1:24
Eph1:15 [in the context of our previous convo]
Phil2:17
Col1:4
Col2:5
1Th1:8
1Th3:5,6,7 [,10]
2Th1:3
Jam1:3
1Pet1:7,9,21
"their faith" -
Matt9:2
Mk2:5
Lk5:20
Phm1:5
1Cor15:1-2 (in the "resurrection" chapter) -
Moreover, brethren, I [Paul] declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
By [/BY MEANS OF] which also ye are saved [...]" (i.e. by means of the gospel Paul declared--no one is suggesting we are "saving ourselves/themselves")
(the rest of the passage spelling out the vital aspect of "His resurrection"... and speaks of "your faith" 2x--verses 14,17--speaking of the fact that "IF Christ be NOT RAISED / be NOT RISEN"--some did not believe in "resurrection of the dead"--[He WAS / DID though! (the point of this text)], "your faith" ['the faith OF YOU'] "is in vain, you are still in your sins" [making the point about the vital aspect of His resurrection... NOT making the point that "your faith" [/'the faith OF YOU']" is unrequired]).
I'm just (here) making the point that Scripture itself speaks of "THY faith," of "YOUR faith," of "THEIR faith"
(and "THE faith" which is "THAT BODY OF TRUTH" found in written scripture following [and concerning also] His death / burial / resurrection / exaltation, which we aren't discussing here, exactly)...
...and that these contexts need to be examined also.
Here's a sample LISTING (there may be others):
"thy faith" -
Matt9:22
Matt15:28
Mk5:34
Mk10:52
Lk7:50
Lk8:48
Lk17:19
Lk18:42
Lk22:32
Phm1:6 [,1:5]
"your faith" -
Mk9:29
Rom1:8
1Cor15:14,17 [my example at top of this post]
2Cor1:24
Eph1:15 [in the context of our previous convo]
Phil2:17
Col1:4
Col2:5
1Th1:8
1Th3:5,6,7 [,10]
2Th1:3
Jam1:3
1Pet1:7,9,21
"their faith" -
Matt9:2
Mk2:5
Lk5:20
Phm1:5
^ Another example FROM that listing ^
Luk 7:48
And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
Luk 7:49
And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
Luk 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/luk/7/50/t_concif_980050
[did that woman "save herself"?? NO!]
Luk 7:48
And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
Luk 7:49
And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
Luk 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/luk/7/50/t_concif_980050
[did that woman "save herself"?? NO!]
Nope.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Notice the sequence of events
1. They heard
2. They trusted
3. They were given the HS
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Notice the sequence of events
1. They heard
2. They trusted
3. They were given the HS
-
1
- Show all