Great news! It's really good to know that everyone will become saved. So, if Jesus died for everyone, then no one, cannot, not, be saved, otherwise, it would mean that Jesus is not the Saviour, right?
Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Great news! It's really good to know that everyone will become saved. So, if Jesus died for everyone, then no one, cannot, not, be saved, otherwise, it would mean that Jesus is not the Saviour, right?
You and I have had this dance before. I don't know what group brainwashed you against the truth. I did not say what you are saying, don't put lies in my mouth. Either you honestly don't understand the difference, or you're lying. I hope it's the first one. You have been brainwashed by someone and can't see the truth of the Word.
Nowhere in scripture is it written that Jesus shed His blood for the nonelect.
Neither. It was sarcasm to illustrate a point. It is too bad you were unable to recognize it as such.
It can't be both ways at the same time: being the Saviour, either those whom Christ died for must be saved or Christ didn't die for everyone. It's just that simple and there is no third alternative.
Why does it bother so much that Jesus did not shed His blood for the nonelect? All the nonelect do is believe and behave badly anyway.
1 Timothy 6:3
1 Whosoever are servants under the yoke, let them count their masters worthy of all honour; lest the name of the Lord and his doctrine be blasphemed. 2 But they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but serve them the rather, because they are faithful and beloved, who are partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. 3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to that doctrine which is according to godliness. 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but sick about questions and strifes of words; from which arise envies, contentions, blasphemies, evil suspicions, 5 Conflicts of men corrupted in mind, and who are destitute of the truth, supposing gain to be godliness.
1 Timothy 6:3
1 Whosoever are servants under the yoke, let them count their masters worthy of all honour; lest the name of the Lord and his doctrine be blasphemed. 2 But they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but serve them the rather, because they are faithful and beloved, who are partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. 3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to that doctrine which is according to godliness. 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but sick about questions and strifes of words; from which arise envies, contentions, blasphemies, evil suspicions, 5 Conflicts of men corrupted in mind, and who are destitute of the truth, supposing gain to be godliness.
You can be as sarcastic as you want to be, what you're saying is hearsay. The Bible says there is a third choice, and why you deny that is beyond me.
And another on, brainwashed by some cult. That is not what the Word says and easily disproved. I don't know why anyone would listen to you when you can read the Bible truth for yourself.
No, there clearly isn't a third choice. Either Christ alone is the Saviour or He is not, period. A person cannot contribute to nor
cause one's own salvation and in believing so is where you error, and it is indeed a very great error.
Genesis 25:23 -
and He declared to her: “Two nations are in your womb [i.e. "before they were BORN / being not yet born"
], and two peoples from within you will be separated; one people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger.”[He had/has a specific purpose for the one..., right.]
So you believe you're right and the Bible is wrong?! There is a third chose, the one the Word says there is. You and the OP are simple wrong.
That's absurd! I believe that you're wrong, and not only wrong but very wrong at that. You need to learn what it means that
Jesus alone is the Saviour. You don't seem to have any understanding of that.
Consider the following:
1Cor15:1-2 (in the "resurrection" chapter) -
Moreover, brethren, I [Paul] declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
By [/BY MEANS OF] which also ye are saved [...]" (i.e. by means of the gospel Paul declared--no one is suggesting we are "saving ourselves/themselves")
(the rest of the passage spelling out the vital aspect of "His resurrection"... and speaks of "your faith" 2x--verses 14,17--speaking of the fact that "IF Christ be NOT RAISED / be NOT RISEN"--some did not believe in "resurrection of the dead"--[He WAS / DID though! (the point of this text)], "your faith" ['the faith OF YOU'] "is in vain, you are still in your sins" [making the point about the vital aspect of His resurrection... NOT making the point that "your faith" [/'the faith OF YOU']" is unrequired]).
I'm just (here) making the point that Scripture itself speaks of "THY faith," of "YOUR faith," of "THEIR faith"
(and "THE faith" which is "THAT BODY OF TRUTH" found in written scripture following [and concerning also] His death / burial / resurrection / exaltation, which we aren't discussing here, exactly)...
...and that these contexts need to be examined also.
Here's a sample LISTING (there may be others):
"thy faith" -
Matt9:22
Matt15:28
Mk5:34
Mk10:52
Lk7:50
Lk8:48
Lk17:19
Lk18:42
Lk22:32
Phm1:6 [,1:5]
"your faith" -
Mk9:29
Rom1:8
1Cor15:14,17 [my example at top of this post]
2Cor1:24
Eph1:15 [in the context of our previous convo]
Phil2:17
Col1:4
Col2:5
1Th1:8
1Th3:5,6,7 [,10]
2Th1:3
Jam1:3
1Pet1:7,9,21
"their faith" -
Matt9:2
Mk2:5
Lk5:20
Phm1:5
^ Another example FROM that listing ^
Luk 7:48
And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
Luk 7:49
And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
Luk 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/luk/7/50/t_concif_980050
[did that woman "save herself"?? NO!]
Luk 7:48
And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
Luk 7:49
And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
Luk 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/luk/7/50/t_concif_980050
[did that woman "save herself"?? NO!]
Romansd 9 - 11 is about God choosing Israel.
Your right, He had mercy on Israel for many years. He had no mercy on Edom. (Esau) He destroyed them.
Yes, but Christ's faith is imputed to them, it then becoming their faith.
God did not have faith for me,
He brought me to faith in him.
For it is by Grace we have been saved through faith..
john 1: 12, But as many as have recieved him to THEM he gave the right to become children of God.
He does not indwell those who have yet to be justified..
Nope.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Notice the sequence of events
1. They heard
2. They trusted
3. They were given the HS
Actually. Only the true believers are elect.
But yes, thank you for agreeing with me, He died for the whole world.. Everyone..