Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
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Deut 30:19 is a command. There's nothing in the text that says God decrees that they will choose life.
Also, the term "world" in 1Jn 2:2, as explained previously, is most assuredly used in the limited sense since John explicitly excluded Jews from the world. You NRs refuse to believe how the ancient Jews understood and used the term "world". Jews, as God's special chosen people, NEVER considered themselves as being part of the World. All the pagan nations of the world were profane, unclean and uncircumcised in the eyes of Jews. And this passage proves how John and all typically believed. Since John excluded the Jews, then logically the "world" is used in the limited sense, referring to Gentiles.
Thirdly, I have also explained often that the reason why God hates sinners is the same reason he hates sin: In both cases Sin and Sinner are infinitely offensive to a thrice Holy God. God hates the act of murder because it's a wicked act that violates his holy law. And God hates the murderer (perhaps even more!) because the act originated in the heart of the murderer before it expressed itself outwardly. And since all mankind is evil, then the hearts of all men are the wellspring of evil.
Yes, "God is love" but he loves those who love him and obey him (Dan 9:4; Deut 5:10; Ex 20:6, etc.); therefore, rendering null and void the popular but naive and unbiblical idea that the nature of such love is "unconditional", whereas the true nature of his love is sacrificial. It's no wonder at all, therefore, that everywhere in the NT wherever the objects of God's love are spoken of, it always refers to his saints as being those objects (1Jn 3:16; 4:10: Eph 2:4, Rom 5:8; 2Thes 2:13, etc.).
Agape love is also a high and lofty MORAL love that proactively seeks the good and welfare of its objects, and this is precisely why God cannot love sin or the sinner. Anything or anyone, outside of Christ, that intrinsically is contrary to this kind of love cannot be loved by God. Not all people are treasued by God because of their so called "intrinsic value"! Only those whom God has sovereignly set aside for noble purposes qualify as such -- as being precious in God's eyes (Rom 9:21) -- and all because of their Federal Head the Lord Jesus Christ. The elect are precious and treasured and valued for HIS SAKE ALONE! Even the death of God's saints is precious in his sight (Ps 116:15). But give me one bible text that says the death of the wicked is also precious in His sight!
Finally, God can indeed "force" (since you love this term so much) the dead to rise; just as Jesus graciously "forced" helpless Lazarus to rise from his tomb (John 11), or when Jesus compassionatley "forced" the widow's only helpless son to rise from his burial coffin on is way to be buried (Lk 7:12-15), or when the Lord mercifully "forced" Jairus' helpless daughter to come back to life (Mk 5:22-43). With such a loving, merciful, gracious and compassionate God I can only wish that he would FORCE his will upon me 24/7!
Also, the term "world" in 1Jn 2:2, as explained previously, is most assuredly used in the limited sense since John explicitly excluded Jews from the world. You NRs refuse to believe how the ancient Jews understood and used the term "world". Jews, as God's special chosen people, NEVER considered themselves as being part of the World. All the pagan nations of the world were profane, unclean and uncircumcised in the eyes of Jews. And this passage proves how John and all typically believed. Since John excluded the Jews, then logically the "world" is used in the limited sense, referring to Gentiles.
Thirdly, I have also explained often that the reason why God hates sinners is the same reason he hates sin: In both cases Sin and Sinner are infinitely offensive to a thrice Holy God. God hates the act of murder because it's a wicked act that violates his holy law. And God hates the murderer (perhaps even more!) because the act originated in the heart of the murderer before it expressed itself outwardly. And since all mankind is evil, then the hearts of all men are the wellspring of evil.
Yes, "God is love" but he loves those who love him and obey him (Dan 9:4; Deut 5:10; Ex 20:6, etc.); therefore, rendering null and void the popular but naive and unbiblical idea that the nature of such love is "unconditional", whereas the true nature of his love is sacrificial. It's no wonder at all, therefore, that everywhere in the NT wherever the objects of God's love are spoken of, it always refers to his saints as being those objects (1Jn 3:16; 4:10: Eph 2:4, Rom 5:8; 2Thes 2:13, etc.).
Agape love is also a high and lofty MORAL love that proactively seeks the good and welfare of its objects, and this is precisely why God cannot love sin or the sinner. Anything or anyone, outside of Christ, that intrinsically is contrary to this kind of love cannot be loved by God. Not all people are treasued by God because of their so called "intrinsic value"! Only those whom God has sovereignly set aside for noble purposes qualify as such -- as being precious in God's eyes (Rom 9:21) -- and all because of their Federal Head the Lord Jesus Christ. The elect are precious and treasured and valued for HIS SAKE ALONE! Even the death of God's saints is precious in his sight (Ps 116:15). But give me one bible text that says the death of the wicked is also precious in His sight!
Finally, God can indeed "force" (since you love this term so much) the dead to rise; just as Jesus graciously "forced" helpless Lazarus to rise from his tomb (John 11), or when Jesus compassionatley "forced" the widow's only helpless son to rise from his burial coffin on is way to be buried (Lk 7:12-15), or when the Lord mercifully "forced" Jairus' helpless daughter to come back to life (Mk 5:22-43). With such a loving, merciful, gracious and compassionate God I can only wish that he would FORCE his will upon me 24/7!
Another distraction. Lazarus was dead. Period. And according to you Jesus had the audacious temerity, unmitigated gall and infinitely inconsiderate chutzpah to violate Lazarus' vaunted, libertarian free will by disturbing his peaceful rest inside that stench-filled tomb.
P.S. How often were Jesus' disciples utterly clueless, hard-hearted, slow to learn and dull of hearing? Can you give me just 12 such instances?
P.S. How often were Jesus' disciples utterly clueless, hard-hearted, slow to learn and dull of hearing? Can you give me just 12 such instances?
Don't need to. I'm a stauch believer in the doctrine of the Perpiscuity of Scripture. Evidently, God has hidden many things from many on this thread, however. Such don't need a scripture re-write; for they are in desperate need of enlightment and understanding from the Holy Spirit.
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Okay...so none of your quoted texts provide the answer to either of my two questions. You just tossed a lot of scripture at the barn wall hoping that something would stick...impress...convince?
But I'm happy you quoted Gen 3:15. I have two more questions for you: Have you ever noticed that God's ENMITY decree that involved the woman and the Serpent excluded Adam? Since this is the case, to which of the two seeds, then, did God relegate Adam: to the godly seed of the Woman or to ungodly seed of the Serpent?
But I'm happy you quoted Gen 3:15. I have two more questions for you: Have you ever noticed that God's ENMITY decree that involved the woman and the Serpent excluded Adam? Since this is the case, to which of the two seeds, then, did God relegate Adam: to the godly seed of the Woman or to ungodly seed of the Serpent?
Another distraction. Lazarus was dead. Period. And according to you Jesus had the audacious temerity, unmitigated gall and infinitely inconsiderate chutzpah to violate Lazarus' vaunted, libertarian free will by disturbing his peaceful rest inside that stench-filled tomb.
P.S. How often were Jesus' disciples utterly clueless, hard-hearted, slow to learn and dull of hearing? Can you give me just 12 such instances?
P.S. How often were Jesus' disciples utterly clueless, hard-hearted, slow to learn and dull of hearing? Can you give me just 12 such instances?
Okay. You wrote much and very likely well-intentioned. But yet none of the passage you have quote state that God loves each and every person in the world. You should pay much closer attention to two things: Who the respecitve original audicences were of those epistles and to the personal pronouns being used. It's absolutely mind-boggling that so many professing Christians just nilly-willy, carelessly and irresponsibly assume that pronouns like "we", "us", "you" all mean one thing: the entire world in the distributive sense. So many of us are are prone to reading into any given passage our own personal presuppositions, which is actually tantamount to adding to God's Word, which is strictly forbidden in scripture. Take vv. 21-23 in the Col 1 passage immediaely above. Do you know why God reconciled to himself those who were formerly his enemies: It was because of God's Election -- election which took place in Eternity. The saints in Colossae were reconcied BY GOD because he predestined them to be so in eternity (Rom 8:18-30).
And look who has "redemption through his blood" and "the forgiveness of sins": Is it the whole world or is to the saints Paul is adressing in Colassae? Does v.2 say that Paul wrote this epistle to each and every person in the world or to a very specific people? Well, then, if these saints have redemption through the blood of Chirst, then the logical inference is that Christ died for THEM. He died for the elect! He laid down his life for HIS SHEEP -- not goats and sheep (John 10). I quoted Jn 5:21 last week that says that Jesus gives life to whom he wills to give it. Mr. Shiloh balked at this text and said the text doesn't say that he doesn't will to give life to one and all. But Jesus later tells us precisely to whom it is he gives eternal life -- his sheep (Jn 10:10, 28)
p.s. Had to cut the first part of your post because I couldn't reply because of too many words.
And look who has "redemption through his blood" and "the forgiveness of sins": Is it the whole world or is to the saints Paul is adressing in Colassae? Does v.2 say that Paul wrote this epistle to each and every person in the world or to a very specific people? Well, then, if these saints have redemption through the blood of Chirst, then the logical inference is that Christ died for THEM. He died for the elect! He laid down his life for HIS SHEEP -- not goats and sheep (John 10). I quoted Jn 5:21 last week that says that Jesus gives life to whom he wills to give it. Mr. Shiloh balked at this text and said the text doesn't say that he doesn't will to give life to one and all. But Jesus later tells us precisely to whom it is he gives eternal life -- his sheep (Jn 10:10, 28)
p.s. Had to cut the first part of your post because I couldn't reply because of too many words.
I don't see it specifically that way because sick and healed or raise from the dead, Jesus was going to heal Lazarus. But Jesus Himself was about to die and wanted to show He also would be raised up. If He could raise Lazarus up from 4 days dead, Jesus would be raised up also. It was meant to give hope to Jesus followers and especially His Disciples. And we still know the Disciples hid because the message never registered like many things Jesus was teaching them.
And why do you think Jesus would do anything less for the spiritual dead who needed to be raised from their tombs to become his disciples and witnesses of his great and awesome love and power in order to glorify his name? But you don't look at sinners as helplessly sick in need of a miracle from on high.
From the Apostle Paul:
24 The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man,
25 nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything.
26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
27 that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,
28 for
“‘In him we live and move and have our being’;
as even some of your own poets have said,
“‘For we are indeed his offspring.’
29 Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.
30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
Because ALL humans are as Paul put it:
“‘For we are indeed his offspring.’
29 Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.
30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
And God has called ALL of His OFFSPRING to Repent.
24 The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man,
25 nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything.
26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
27 that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,
28 for
“‘In him we live and move and have our being’;
as even some of your own poets have said,
“‘For we are indeed his offspring.’
29 Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.
30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
Because ALL humans are as Paul put it:
“‘For we are indeed his offspring.’
29 Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.
30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
And God has called ALL of His OFFSPRING to Repent.
Mankind is God's "offspring" by virtue of him being man's Creator...as opposed to numerous pagan beliefs that involved all other kinds of creators. Or to put an even finer point on this truth, as Paul did, he reminded his audience that from ONE MAN he made every nation. (Don't forget: Paul was addressing pagan Greeks!) And this is a far cry from saying that God's [adopted] children is comprised of all mankind; for that would contradict several scriptures. God is only the Father of his elect sons and daughters. In fact, God isn't even the God of the DEAD, let alone their Heavenly Father!
And, yes, all men everywhere are commanded to repent. That is every man's moral responsibility. But responsibility does not presuppose spiritual ability -- ability that Adam lost for the human race. All God's commands are a call for man to acknowledge his utter helplessness to obey as required, and thus cry out to God for help and mercy and compassion. But most men are too arrogant, prideful and self-willed to see themselves the way God does. All men are naturally born REBELS! It's in man's DNA to this very day!
Ps 2:1-3
1 Why do the nations conspire
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the LORD
and against his Anointed One.
3 "Let us break their chains," they say,
"and throw off their fetters."
NIV
Can you spell SELF-RELIANCE?
And, yes, all men everywhere are commanded to repent. That is every man's moral responsibility. But responsibility does not presuppose spiritual ability -- ability that Adam lost for the human race. All God's commands are a call for man to acknowledge his utter helplessness to obey as required, and thus cry out to God for help and mercy and compassion. But most men are too arrogant, prideful and self-willed to see themselves the way God does. All men are naturally born REBELS! It's in man's DNA to this very day!
Ps 2:1-3
1 Why do the nations conspire
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the LORD
and against his Anointed One.
3 "Let us break their chains," they say,
"and throw off their fetters."
NIV
Can you spell SELF-RELIANCE?
It was by design from Creation like Paul said.
26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
27 that they should seek God
So it has always been God that leads His Offspring to Him.
26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
27 that they should seek God
So it has always been God that leads His Offspring to Him.
Forcing MY will on someone does not take away their free will. They can be still free to want/will something other than what I am forcing upon them. But God unilateral changing someone's desires/will without their consent does take away their free will.
Lazarus being raised from the dead did not force Lazarus to want to be resurrected. Maybe Lazarus would rather have remained where he was. Maybe he was glad to have a few more days or years of pleasure and pain. But he was still having his independent desires despite the factb that he had no choice about coming back to life.
Calvinism posits that God unilaterally imposes desires on people so that they start to want to perform in a way that pleases Him. That's spiritual drug rape. Non-calvinists posit that God persuades and wins people over to desiring to please Him by demonstrating His gracious love for them through the cross. They start to please God because they of their own desire to please Him in response.
Lazarus being raised from the dead did not force Lazarus to want to be resurrected. Maybe Lazarus would rather have remained where he was. Maybe he was glad to have a few more days or years of pleasure and pain. But he was still having his independent desires despite the factb that he had no choice about coming back to life.
Calvinism posits that God unilaterally imposes desires on people so that they start to want to perform in a way that pleases Him. That's spiritual drug rape. Non-calvinists posit that God persuades and wins people over to desiring to please Him by demonstrating His gracious love for them through the cross. They start to please God because they of their own desire to please Him in response.
Are we playing word salad? However, God said it clear to me about Genesis 3:15. Lets toss that around in a few other translations also
I highlighted each scripture part and then answered in Parenthesis each of those form the view given me, thank you for your sharing and caring, whatever each person's motive is or might be, God knows and therefore I am at rest in that truth of God for us all to be content on all things
Genesis 3:15
Authorized (King James) Version
15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
(between the Serpent and the woman)
Genesis 3:15
New International Version
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush[b] your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
(The serpents offspring, Evil, and hers, the woman's)
Genesis 3:15
King James Version
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
See Revelations on that one, if God permits this to see this yet, I am not saying I see it, only god does and shares it according to God's will, thanks
Genesis 3:15
English Standard Version
15 I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a]and her offspring;
he shall bruise your head,
and you shall bruise his heel.”
( Jesus the risen has bruised Evils head, the serpent defeated, Satan defeated, revealed in Revelations, where the risen Jesus has got the keys now to Heaven and Hell, taken away from Satan at the resurrection)
Oh and to toss this around below also. Jesus was not born of man, the first Adam as all others are. Born of woman, the new covenant now in place through the risen Son Jesus for us to be new too, and not of work either
Hebrews 7:11-12
New King James Version
Need for a New Priesthood
11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was therethat another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
The new is Love
1 Corinthians 13:4-7
New International Version
4 Love is patient,love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking,it is not easily angered,it keeps no record of wrongs.6 Love does not delight in evilbut rejoices with the truth.7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love, God's Agape Love to all, is what is needed too be given to us all in truth from God and God gives that to all those in true belief to not harm others as Saul did harm others, before becoming Paul. God saw Saul as serious and Saul really did do what he believed in doing, yet was taught wrong under Law and took it too kill others over it, in thought he was doing what was right. As many religious people today are doing that too, not literally, mentally to others in fear and guilt, evil uses fear and guilt against people. That be why no flesh will ever please God after Son's has pleased God, the tis done on that cross (John 19:30) that is done once for us all, to turn to God in belief to God. That just loves us all as said in 1 John 2:1-4, then 5-11 one does by Faith alone, the truth Love God's love, and actually does it willingly. then sees verse 12 as a reminder one does the truth of God by Love of God given them, because these that are born again, believe by God are forgiven by God in Son for them. (reconciled, 2 Cor 5:17-20)
Love to all, is the call, to all. If you are evil and know this from in you, time to turn to God willingly and say, teach me new please and if you are sincere, God will do that for you too, thank you
I highlighted each scripture part and then answered in Parenthesis each of those form the view given me, thank you for your sharing and caring, whatever each person's motive is or might be, God knows and therefore I am at rest in that truth of God for us all to be content on all things
Genesis 3:15
Authorized (King James) Version
15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
(between the Serpent and the woman)
Genesis 3:15
New International Version
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush[b] your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
(The serpents offspring, Evil, and hers, the woman's)
Genesis 3:15
King James Version
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
See Revelations on that one, if God permits this to see this yet, I am not saying I see it, only god does and shares it according to God's will, thanks
Genesis 3:15
English Standard Version
15 I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a]and her offspring;
he shall bruise your head,
and you shall bruise his heel.”
( Jesus the risen has bruised Evils head, the serpent defeated, Satan defeated, revealed in Revelations, where the risen Jesus has got the keys now to Heaven and Hell, taken away from Satan at the resurrection)
Oh and to toss this around below also. Jesus was not born of man, the first Adam as all others are. Born of woman, the new covenant now in place through the risen Son Jesus for us to be new too, and not of work either
Hebrews 7:11-12
New King James Version
Need for a New Priesthood
11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was therethat another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
The new is Love
1 Corinthians 13:4-7
New International Version
4 Love is patient,love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking,it is not easily angered,it keeps no record of wrongs.6 Love does not delight in evilbut rejoices with the truth.7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love, God's Agape Love to all, is what is needed too be given to us all in truth from God and God gives that to all those in true belief to not harm others as Saul did harm others, before becoming Paul. God saw Saul as serious and Saul really did do what he believed in doing, yet was taught wrong under Law and took it too kill others over it, in thought he was doing what was right. As many religious people today are doing that too, not literally, mentally to others in fear and guilt, evil uses fear and guilt against people. That be why no flesh will ever please God after Son's has pleased God, the tis done on that cross (John 19:30) that is done once for us all, to turn to God in belief to God. That just loves us all as said in 1 John 2:1-4, then 5-11 one does by Faith alone, the truth Love God's love, and actually does it willingly. then sees verse 12 as a reminder one does the truth of God by Love of God given them, because these that are born again, believe by God are forgiven by God in Son for them. (reconciled, 2 Cor 5:17-20)
Love to all, is the call, to all. If you are evil and know this from in you, time to turn to God willingly and say, teach me new please and if you are sincere, God will do that for you too, thank you
Okay, see as you will, and literally you are correct. You might be straining g out gnats and end up swallowing a camel as the first chosen priests did, that Jesus warned them over that literalness.either you do not see the whole picture of Love from god to all or you are a troll
You either believe God from within you or you do not. I leave you in God's hands, have a blessed life, I hope the best for you Rufus
You either believe God from within you or you do not. I leave you in God's hands, have a blessed life, I hope the best for you Rufus