Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
מַלְאָכִי
Chapter 3
טז אָז נִדְבְּרוּ יִרְאֵי יְהוָה, אִישׁ אֶל-רֵעֵהוּ; וַיַּקְשֵׁב יְהוָה, וַיִּשְׁמָע, וַיִּכָּתֵב סֵפֶר זִכָּרוֹן לְפָנָיו לְיִרְאֵי יְהוָה, וּלְחֹשְׁבֵי שְׁמ
16 Then they that feared the LORD spoke one with another; and the LORD hearkened, and heard, and a book of remembrance was written before Him, for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon His name.
יז וְהָיוּ לִי, אָמַר יְהוָה צְבָאוֹת, לַיּוֹם, אֲשֶׁר אֲנִי עֹשֶׂה סְגֻלָּה; וְחָמַלְתִּי עֲלֵיהֶם--כַּאֲשֶׁר יַחְמֹל אִישׁ, עַל-בְּנוֹ הָעֹבֵד אֹתוֹ.
17 And they shall be Mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in the day that I do make, even Mine own treasure; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
Chapter 3
טז אָז נִדְבְּרוּ יִרְאֵי יְהוָה, אִישׁ אֶל-רֵעֵהוּ; וַיַּקְשֵׁב יְהוָה, וַיִּשְׁמָע, וַיִּכָּתֵב סֵפֶר זִכָּרוֹן לְפָנָיו לְיִרְאֵי יְהוָה, וּלְחֹשְׁבֵי שְׁמ
16 Then they that feared the LORD spoke one with another; and the LORD hearkened, and heard, and a book of remembrance was written before Him, for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon His name.
יז וְהָיוּ לִי, אָמַר יְהוָה צְבָאוֹת, לַיּוֹם, אֲשֶׁר אֲנִי עֹשֶׂה סְגֻלָּה; וְחָמַלְתִּי עֲלֵיהֶם--כַּאֲשֶׁר יַחְמֹל אִישׁ, עַל-בְּנוֹ הָעֹבֵד אֹתוֹ.
17 And they shall be Mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in the day that I do make, even Mine own treasure; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
God's grace is beyond human comprehension; but you and others try to distill it down to one or two sentences. God's grace is like a brilliant, multi-faceted diamond having many sides to it. TULIP explores those facets.
T - tells us why that Grace is desperately needed by mankind
U - tells us what God's eternal plan was
L - tells us how God, in and through his Son, accomplished that plan for many
I - tells us how God in, through and by the Holy Spirit effectually applies the eternal plan to many in temporal reality
P - tells how and why the eternal plan is guaranteed to succeed for all for whom Christ died
T - tells us why that Grace is desperately needed by mankind
U - tells us what God's eternal plan was
L - tells us how God, in and through his Son, accomplished that plan for many
I - tells us how God in, through and by the Holy Spirit effectually applies the eternal plan to many in temporal reality
P - tells how and why the eternal plan is guaranteed to succeed for all for whom Christ died
The goal of Systematic Theology, a discipline of theology you apparently despise, is to help us to digest, understand and more fully appreciate any given doctrine. Generally speaking, things are easier to comprehend by finite minds when they are broken down into their various components. Any scientist, philosopher or theologian will tell you this.
In the Old Testament we read God's Mercy. David used a term that shows us God's Mercy literally means Merciessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss as in endless Mercy. No one had to categorize Mercy to know it's the Mercy of God. We don't have to categorize the Grace of God to know God's Graceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee is endless Grace or categorized Grace.
Some man created your system and it cannot be found that way in the Bible. Ultimately, you're still following what man created.
Now that I said all of that, I understand what you're doing. I am merely pointing out it is not Biblical, it's how man chose to present it. So ultimately it's a man made doctrine.
Some man created your system and it cannot be found that way in the Bible. Ultimately, you're still following what man created.
Now that I said all of that, I understand what you're doing. I am merely pointing out it is not Biblical, it's how man chose to present it. So ultimately it's a man made doctrine.
The Doctrines of Grace are biblical! Calvin and a large host of other Reformed believers over the centuries have very well supported the Doctrines of Grace from scripture. Just because the bible is not written in any particular format, doesn't mean any given doctrine that has been systematized is not biblical. That's the height of simplistic thinking. The scriptures were never presented to us topically either; so does this mean that Topical Bibles are useless or non-biblical? 
There's not one tenet of Calvinism that I cannot readily support from the bible. And this is far, far more than you can say for your brand of soeteriology for which you are a very poor apologist.
P.S. Mercy and Grace are different! Just sayin'...
There's not one tenet of Calvinism that I cannot readily support from the bible. And this is far, far more than you can say for your brand of soeteriology for which you are a very poor apologist.P.S. Mercy and Grace are different! Just sayin'...
The Doctrines of Grace are biblical! Calvin and a large host of other Reformed believers over the centuries have very well supported the Doctrines of Grace from scripture. Just because the bible is not written in any particular format, doesn't mean any given doctrine that has been systematized is not biblical. That's the height of simplistic thinking. The scriptures were never presented to us topically either; so does this mean that Topical Bibles are useless or non-biblical? There's not one tenet of Calvinism that I cannot readily support from the bible. And this is far, far more than you can say for your brand of soeteriology for which you are a very poor apologist.
There's not one tenet of Calvinism that I cannot readily support from the bible. And this is far, far more than you can say for your brand of soeteriology for which you are a very poor apologist.
N
Getting a tad sarcastic then? Must be catching I've only been patient even though you have still not answered what I asked, even though I said you don't have to answer.
However, you did choose to answer but you just continued with what you believe and sadly, what you are saying is not what the text is saying.
You have used the Bible, not as it is written, but rather in a way to highlight your own interpretation.
Unless you wish to discuss this further, without the sarcastic deflection, I'm going to break off because this is just one big circular response from you.
There are not two levels of believers. We do not have some that are 'elect' and another set that is just 'saved.' I don't know if you came up with that on your own or you have been taught it, but it is not found in scripture.
What you miss, is that certain people in scripture did have a special calling from God just as many saved people do today. In fact, they are all around us. Does the Bible say anywhere that certain 'elect' people are the special ones? No it does not. That just seems to be how you understand it. I don't think that is a salvic question or belief, but it is a confusing and wrong conclusion.
Do we have every backstory of every person in the Bible? No we do not. We have certain stories and examples but the big exclusion is everyone else. You may be an everyone else and I am probably an everyone else, but that does not mean that we are not saved or that there is a class of 'elect' brand out there.
Thank you
I've only been patient even though you have still not answered what I asked, even though I said you don't have to answer.However, you did choose to answer but you just continued with what you believe and sadly, what you are saying is not what the text is saying.
You have used the Bible, not as it is written, but rather in a way to highlight your own interpretation.
Unless you wish to discuss this further, without the sarcastic deflection, I'm going to break off because this is just one big circular response from you.
There are not two levels of believers. We do not have some that are 'elect' and another set that is just 'saved.' I don't know if you came up with that on your own or you have been taught it, but it is not found in scripture.
What you miss, is that certain people in scripture did have a special calling from God just as many saved people do today. In fact, they are all around us. Does the Bible say anywhere that certain 'elect' people are the special ones? No it does not. That just seems to be how you understand it. I don't think that is a salvic question or belief, but it is a confusing and wrong conclusion.
Do we have every backstory of every person in the Bible? No we do not. We have certain stories and examples but the big exclusion is everyone else. You may be an everyone else and I am probably an everyone else, but that does not mean that we are not saved or that there is a class of 'elect' brand out there.
Thank you
Getting a tad sarcastic then? Must be catching I've only been patient even though you have still not answered what I asked, even though I said you don't have to answer.
However, you did choose to answer but you just continued with what you believe and sadly, what you are saying is not what the text is saying.
You have used the Bible, not as it is written, but rather in a way to highlight your own interpretation.
Unless you wish to discuss this further, without the sarcastic deflection, I'm going to break off because this is just one big circular response from you.
There are not two levels of believers. We do not have some that are 'elect' and another set that is just 'saved.' I don't know if you came up with that on your own or you have been taught it, but it is not found in scripture.
What you miss, is that certain people in scripture did have a special calling from God just as many saved people do today. In fact, they are all around us. Does the Bible say anywhere that certain 'elect' people are the special ones? No it does not. That just seems to be how you understand it. I don't think that is a salvic question or belief, but it is a confusing and wrong conclusion.
Do we have every backstory of every person in the Bible? No we do not. We have certain stories and examples but the big exclusion is everyone else. You may be an everyone else and I am probably an everyone else, but that does not mean that we are not saved or that there is a class of 'elect' brand out there.
Thank you
I've only been patient even though you have still not answered what I asked, even though I said you don't have to answer.However, you did choose to answer but you just continued with what you believe and sadly, what you are saying is not what the text is saying.
You have used the Bible, not as it is written, but rather in a way to highlight your own interpretation.
Unless you wish to discuss this further, without the sarcastic deflection, I'm going to break off because this is just one big circular response from you.
There are not two levels of believers. We do not have some that are 'elect' and another set that is just 'saved.' I don't know if you came up with that on your own or you have been taught it, but it is not found in scripture.
What you miss, is that certain people in scripture did have a special calling from God just as many saved people do today. In fact, they are all around us. Does the Bible say anywhere that certain 'elect' people are the special ones? No it does not. That just seems to be how you understand it. I don't think that is a salvic question or belief, but it is a confusing and wrong conclusion.
Do we have every backstory of every person in the Bible? No we do not. We have certain stories and examples but the big exclusion is everyone else. You may be an everyone else and I am probably an everyone else, but that does not mean that we are not saved or that there is a class of 'elect' brand out there.
Thank you