Demons
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Hi, Kroogz.
First, I would like to establish, from scripture, that demons INSIDE OF SOMEONE can negatively affect their mind.
Mar 5:1
And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
Mar 5:2
And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
Mar 5:3
Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
Mar 5:4
Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
Mar 5:5
And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
Mar 5:6
But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
Mar 5:7
And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
Mar 5:8
For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
Mar 5:9
And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
Mar 5:10
And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
Mar 5:11
Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
Mar 5:12
And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
Mar 5:13
And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand) and were choked in the sea.
Mar 5:14
And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done.
Mar 5:15
And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.
I trust that we are all familiar with this account, but I would like to point out a few things for everyone's consideration.
First, there was a man with an unclean spirit. In fact, he had a legion (6000) of demons DWELLING INSIDE OF HIM.
Second, when Jesus appeared on the scene, there were majorly different reactions to his presence where the man and THE DEMONS DWELLING INSIDE OF HIM were concerned.
The man ran to meet Jesus, and he worshipped him. Let me pause here to say that this is another reason why I do not like the word "possessed" when it comes to demons. In other words, although this man had 6000 demons DWELLING INSIDE OF HIM, they did not "possess" him, or they did not have full control over him. Instead, he still had the ability to run to Jesus and worship him of his own volition.
The demons INSIDE OF HIM? Initially, they adjured Jesus, by God, that he would not torment them, and this was after he had commanded them to COME OUT OF the man. After that, they besought him that he would not send them out of that country. Lastly, they besought him that he would send them into a herd of swine. When they departed from being INSIDE OF THIS MAN, the man was found to be "in his right mind." In other words, the demons which previously DWELT INSIDE OF HIM were causing him to not be "in his right mind."
Granted, this man was not "saved" when Jesus met him, but I would like to pose the following question to you and everybody else here.
What do you suppose would have happened if Jesus had merely told this man to believe on him as his Lord and Savior?
Do you suppose that all of the demons would have COME OUT OF THIS MAN if Jesus had merely told him to do the same?
Personally, I do not suppose any such thing. Again, in scripture, demons are always CAST OUT OF SOMEBODY.
I have another question.
Did this man believe in Jesus or not?
Technically, he was not "saved" when he first encountered Jesus, but he did run to him and fall down and worship him.
What does that tell us?
I believe that it tells us that this man somehow recognized Jesus as Lord and that he saw in him the potential to be delivered from the legion of demons which had long been tormenting him.
Let's turn from this man to those in scripture who we know were Christians. Please consider what Paul said here to the Christians at Corinth.
2Co 10:3
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Co 10:4
(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds)
2Co 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6
And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
While writing to Christians, Paul informed them that both he and they were in a war, and that the war was not after the flesh, or that the weapons of their warfare were not carnal, but mighty through God instead. In other words, Paul informed them that both they and he (and we, by extension) were in a spiritual war which required spiritual weaponry in order to overcome.
In this instance, Paul adequately described the battleground for this spiritual war when he spoke of pulling down strongholds, and casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.
Let's pause here for a moment and ask ourselves where these strongholds were located in Christians, or where these imaginations, this knowledge, or these thoughts were to be found.
I think that we would all agree that these things (strongholds, imaginations, knowledge, and thoughts) reside IN one's mind, or INSIDE OF THEM, as opposed to residing somewhere OUTSIDE OF THEM, and, again, these things required spiritual weaponry in order to be properly dealt with.
Why would Christians need spiritual weaponry to set their minds straight unless they were dealing with spiritual forces?
Seeing how this spiritual battleground of the mind resides INSIDE OF CHRISTIANS, ought we not to consider that the spiritual forces which are being fought against with spiritual weaponry similarly reside INSIDE OF CHRISTIANS?
These seem like fair questions to me, and I believe that the correct biblical answers are that Christians can have spirits INSIDE OF THEM which are negatively affecting their minds.
Does this make sense to you?
If not, then please tell why it does not.
Thank you.
First, I would like to establish, from scripture, that demons INSIDE OF SOMEONE can negatively affect their mind.
Mar 5:1
And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
Mar 5:2
And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
Mar 5:3
Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
Mar 5:4
Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
Mar 5:5
And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
Mar 5:6
But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
Mar 5:7
And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
Mar 5:8
For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
Mar 5:9
And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
Mar 5:10
And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
Mar 5:11
Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
Mar 5:12
And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
Mar 5:13
And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand) and were choked in the sea.
Mar 5:14
And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done.
Mar 5:15
And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.
I trust that we are all familiar with this account, but I would like to point out a few things for everyone's consideration.
First, there was a man with an unclean spirit. In fact, he had a legion (6000) of demons DWELLING INSIDE OF HIM.
Second, when Jesus appeared on the scene, there were majorly different reactions to his presence where the man and THE DEMONS DWELLING INSIDE OF HIM were concerned.
The man ran to meet Jesus, and he worshipped him. Let me pause here to say that this is another reason why I do not like the word "possessed" when it comes to demons. In other words, although this man had 6000 demons DWELLING INSIDE OF HIM, they did not "possess" him, or they did not have full control over him. Instead, he still had the ability to run to Jesus and worship him of his own volition.
The demons INSIDE OF HIM? Initially, they adjured Jesus, by God, that he would not torment them, and this was after he had commanded them to COME OUT OF the man. After that, they besought him that he would not send them out of that country. Lastly, they besought him that he would send them into a herd of swine. When they departed from being INSIDE OF THIS MAN, the man was found to be "in his right mind." In other words, the demons which previously DWELT INSIDE OF HIM were causing him to not be "in his right mind."
Granted, this man was not "saved" when Jesus met him, but I would like to pose the following question to you and everybody else here.
What do you suppose would have happened if Jesus had merely told this man to believe on him as his Lord and Savior?
Do you suppose that all of the demons would have COME OUT OF THIS MAN if Jesus had merely told him to do the same?
Personally, I do not suppose any such thing. Again, in scripture, demons are always CAST OUT OF SOMEBODY.
I have another question.
Did this man believe in Jesus or not?
Technically, he was not "saved" when he first encountered Jesus, but he did run to him and fall down and worship him.
What does that tell us?
I believe that it tells us that this man somehow recognized Jesus as Lord and that he saw in him the potential to be delivered from the legion of demons which had long been tormenting him.
Let's turn from this man to those in scripture who we know were Christians. Please consider what Paul said here to the Christians at Corinth.
2Co 10:3
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Co 10:4
(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds)
2Co 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6
And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
While writing to Christians, Paul informed them that both he and they were in a war, and that the war was not after the flesh, or that the weapons of their warfare were not carnal, but mighty through God instead. In other words, Paul informed them that both they and he (and we, by extension) were in a spiritual war which required spiritual weaponry in order to overcome.
In this instance, Paul adequately described the battleground for this spiritual war when he spoke of pulling down strongholds, and casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.
Let's pause here for a moment and ask ourselves where these strongholds were located in Christians, or where these imaginations, this knowledge, or these thoughts were to be found.
I think that we would all agree that these things (strongholds, imaginations, knowledge, and thoughts) reside IN one's mind, or INSIDE OF THEM, as opposed to residing somewhere OUTSIDE OF THEM, and, again, these things required spiritual weaponry in order to be properly dealt with.
Why would Christians need spiritual weaponry to set their minds straight unless they were dealing with spiritual forces?
Seeing how this spiritual battleground of the mind resides INSIDE OF CHRISTIANS, ought we not to consider that the spiritual forces which are being fought against with spiritual weaponry similarly reside INSIDE OF CHRISTIANS?
These seem like fair questions to me, and I believe that the correct biblical answers are that Christians can have spirits INSIDE OF THEM which are negatively affecting their minds.
Does this make sense to you?
If not, then please tell why it does not.
Thank you.
Thank you for reading and appreciating.
Also, you referenced 1 Cor 15 so I read it. I think I'm OK with my past but when you get me reading that in context of my past, verse 9 really sticks out at me. It's Paul saying "For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God." The fact that it is helpful to have the dots connected on the fact that Saul/Paul also went around attacking people before God transformed him tells me that some part of me still needs the balm of hearing the relatability of Paul. I don't think it is as much God I'm afraid of not forgiving me, as myself or others (or really the enemy disguised as these). Knowing how God used Paul despite his past, and connecting it to my own prior failures, helps me stand more firmly on the truth of God's forgiveness no matter what anyone says. So thanks for the encouragement, friend.
Plus, you have me wondering about what you have been through yourself, but please only share if you truly want to and feel safe enough to do so here.
Also, you referenced 1 Cor 15 so I read it. I think I'm OK with my past but when you get me reading that in context of my past, verse 9 really sticks out at me. It's Paul saying "For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God." The fact that it is helpful to have the dots connected on the fact that Saul/Paul also went around attacking people before God transformed him tells me that some part of me still needs the balm of hearing the relatability of Paul. I don't think it is as much God I'm afraid of not forgiving me, as myself or others (or really the enemy disguised as these). Knowing how God used Paul despite his past, and connecting it to my own prior failures, helps me stand more firmly on the truth of God's forgiveness no matter what anyone says. So thanks for the encouragement, friend.
Plus, you have me wondering about what you have been through yourself, but please only share if you truly want to and feel safe enough to do so here.
I'm glad to hear you have. I haven't personally but my house church has in a few cases with mixed success for various reasons. First off, the afflicted one must truly want the evil spirit(s) gone. I now understand why it says in Luke 11:24-26
24 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ 25 When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. 26 Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.”
What evil spirits offer a person is essentially a hard drug. Just like a drug addict won't get clean until he/she really wants to, you cannot free a person from possession (or indwelling evil spirit for those who prefer that), if they don't want to be free enough to fight. When you try to free a person unwilling to fight for sobriety, you can actually end up with the person in a worse state. However, a possessed person cannot free themself without outside help.
Second, one of the successful cases was a child who was therefore under his parent's authority. I cannot give specifics, though, because it was before God had connected me to that fellowship. I do know that on the failed case, the husband of the afflicted could have done more with his authority to help his wife, but wouldn't stand up to her. (FYI He is a very gentle man with his own wounds, which isn't an excuse but it is an explanation.)
By the way, although I call that last one a failed case, that is a time-specific description; never give up on God's loving willingness to get through to a person when they are ready.
There was at least one other exorcism (is that the right word?) done in my awareness, but it was done from a distance, so I do not know the outcome.
24 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ 25 When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. 26 Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.”
What evil spirits offer a person is essentially a hard drug. Just like a drug addict won't get clean until he/she really wants to, you cannot free a person from possession (or indwelling evil spirit for those who prefer that), if they don't want to be free enough to fight. When you try to free a person unwilling to fight for sobriety, you can actually end up with the person in a worse state. However, a possessed person cannot free themself without outside help.
Second, one of the successful cases was a child who was therefore under his parent's authority. I cannot give specifics, though, because it was before God had connected me to that fellowship. I do know that on the failed case, the husband of the afflicted could have done more with his authority to help his wife, but wouldn't stand up to her. (FYI He is a very gentle man with his own wounds, which isn't an excuse but it is an explanation.)
By the way, although I call that last one a failed case, that is a time-specific description; never give up on God's loving willingness to get through to a person when they are ready.
There was at least one other exorcism (is that the right word?) done in my awareness, but it was done from a distance, so I do not know the outcome.
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