Demons

Blain · Monday at 1:29 AM

Yes keeping my mind clean is not an issue luckily I also have the benefit of not having sexual desires so I don't have to worry about porn addiction and my heart is always set on him so rarely does my mind fall into sin

keepingthingsreal · Monday at 8:20 AM

daisyseesthesun said:

Hi, Daisy. I missed your response last night, so I am sorry for the delay in responding to it.

Where, in scripture, does it say that the Christian's temple (body) is swept clean when they get saved? Again, in scripture, both Jesus and his disciples cast demons out of people, and Jesus said that those who believe in him will similarly cast out demons.

Mar 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Seeing how, in scripture, demons were always cast out of people, why should we suddenly believe that they are now removed or gotten rid of some other way?

daisyseesthesun said:

Again, in scripture, how does an unclean spirit go out of a man?

Mar 1:23
And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,
Mar 1:24
Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
Mar 1:25
And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.
Mar 1:26
And when the unclean spirit had torn him, and cried with a loud voice, he came out of him.
Mar 1:27
And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine is this? for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him.

The unclean spirit came out of this man when Jesus commanded it to.

Mar 5:2
And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
Mar 5:3
Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
Mar 5:4
Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
Mar 5:5
And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
Mar 5:6
But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
Mar 5:7
And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
Mar 5:8
For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

We all know the rest of the story, and, again, the unclean spirit came out of this man when Jesus commanded it to.

Mar 7:25
For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:
Mar 7:26
The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.

It's the same scenario. This woman's daughter had an unclean spirit, and she besought Jesus to cast it out of her.

Luk 4:33
And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,
Luk 4:34
Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.
Luk 4:35
And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the devil had thrown him in the midst, he came out of him, and hurt him not.
Luk 4:36
And they were all amazed, and spake among themselves, saying, What a word is this! for with authority and power he commandeth the unclean spirits, and they come out.

This is a parallel account to what we read earlier in Mark 1:23-27, and, again, the unclean spirit needed to be cast out of this man.

Luk 8:29
(For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness)

This is a parallel account of what we read in Mark 5:2-8, and, again, Jesus commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man.

Luk 9:38
And, behold, a man of the company cried out, saying, Master, I beseech thee, look upon my son: for he is mine only child.
Luk 9:39
And, lo, a spirit taketh him, and he suddenly crieth out; and it teareth him that he foameth again, and bruising him hardly departeth from him.
Luk 9:40
And I besought thy disciples to cast him out; and they could not.
Luk 9:41
And Jesus answering said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you, and suffer you? Bring thy son hither.
Luk 9:42
And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father.

Yet again, the unclean spirit had to be cast out of this child. In fact, in every recorded instance in the Bible, an unclean spirit needed to be cast out of someone, so I ask you (and everyone) once again, why should we believe that unclean spirits come out of people in our day and age by some other means?

Also, if a Christian's temple truly is swept clean of any unclean spirits at the point of conversion, then, as I asked in an earlier post here, why did Paul say the following to the born again Christians at Corinth?

2Co 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

What was this "filthiness of the...spirit" that these "us" (Paul and the Christians he was addressing) needed to "cleanse" themselves from while perfecting holiness in the fear of God?

Was the "filthiness of the...spirit" that they needed to be "cleansed" from related to an "unclean spirit?"

If not, then what was it related to?

Also, if a Christian's temple or body is truly "swept clean" of all "unclean spirits" at the point of conversion as their bodies become the temples of the Holy Spirit, then why would they later need to perfect holiness in the fear of God?

I mean, if they are already perfectly holy in that they have allegedly been "swept clean" of all "unclean spirits," then why weren't they perfectly holy already?

Anyhow, this is what I meant by scrutinizing alleged proof texts which allegedly say that a Christian cannot have a demon dwelling inside of them. In my own experience, I have never seen such an alleged proof text hold up under scrutiny.

keepingthingsreal · Monday at 8:38 AM

Blain said:

I am happy to read this, Blain. At the same time, however, I can just about guarantee you that anybody who has had a porn addiction at any point in their life has a problem with sexual desires or lust. Again, if we yield our members (eyes, hands, reproductive organs, etc.) to the wrong types of spirits, then we ought not be surprised when they seek to fulfill their lusts or desires through our members which we have yielded to them.

Rom 6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Paul instructed the Christians to whom he was writing to not let sin reign in their mortal bodies that they should obey it in the lusts or desires thereof. He also instructed them, the Christians, to not yield their members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin, but rather to yield themselves unto God, and their members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

In other words, Christians are still capable of yielding their members to the wrong spirits who have wrong lusts or desires.

If we yield our members to the Holy Spirit, then holiness will be the result.

If we yield our members to unclean spirits, then uncleanness will be the result.

Rom 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

His servants you are to whom you obey.

In the same way that righteousness is obedience unto God, sin is obedience unto Satan or demons. If we yield our members to either Satan or demons, or if we give place to the devil, whether willfully or ignorantly, then we are going to have to do something to get them out of that "place" that we have "given" them, and I think that I know, from both scripture and experience, what that thing is.

keepingthingsreal · Monday at 10:35 AM

On another note, I just received notice that one of my nieces died in a car accident last night.

I did start a thread about it, but it will probably take a while for that to appear. In the interim, any prayers for the surviving family members would be appreciated. I have been separated from my family for years because they have despised me simply because I am a Christian, so this situation is a bit awkward as well. Of course, I will put that aside to try to be with my family, but I am also presently dealing with a severely sprained foot which has pretty much kept me bedridden for the last 7 or 8 days. Anyhow, just please pray for them and me. Thank you.

Kroogz · Monday at 11:22 AM

daisyseesthesun said:

Matt 12~~28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
29 Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house.

43 “When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, but finds none. 44 Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when it comes, it finds the house empty, swept, and put in order. 45 Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and dwell there, and ithe last state of that person is worse than the first. So also will it be with this evil generation.”

1 John 4~~~4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

The believer has the Holy Spirit(strongman) indwelling his house. When a demon comes a knocken......The Holy Spirit answers the door.

homwardbound · Monday at 11:36 AM

keepingthingsreal said:

No! not in the risen Son! Jesus came and released people from possession, proven the miracles
All that is left is the selfish flesh to be right over others and even God in some cases
Proverbs 23:7
for as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee
As I think, at any particular time, that controls me instantly, maybe you too, you decide, thanks
Flesh now released to choose God or self done for you in risen Son to you. God won with Son for us, to be one with them as (Won) One and when anyone else steps in and God Accepts them they see, at least begin new to see (Eph. 1:6,7, 13) Accepted, forgiven and sealed to see, so if anyone decides to believe then continue please.
Philippians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

The battle today, is one's own spirit flesh mindset. Yes evil is still involved with anyone's mindset
Time to renew the mindset
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Which is Love of 1 Cor 13:4-7

Evil lost at the resurrection of Son, Son took the keys at that resurrection as the new high Priest never to ever die ever again, that part is done we are in the resurrection, new life to get given us, if not yet got it given yet from God. Many got it, given them, and do not yet see it, and therefore are possessed of self righteousness, Yet, being too busy trying to do right, finding out this I can't do it perfect as Galatians talks about, I assuredly did try, when I let me be put under Law to do it, I found out I can't not perfectly ever, Wow! depressed! Wow. I then saw this: to exchange my flesh life to God's life in Spirit and Truth for me to be new and learn contentment in all things happening, bad or good, matters not anymore whether what is presently good or bad.
Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

All sin through Son, is now condemned to the flesh of people, first birth, needing God to give them the new birth in risen Son for them to see new and love all in mercy and truth given them to do that willingly. It is not a have to situation anymore, it is a willingness.
The Key that opens the door to the new life offered everyone is "Willing" Willing to die right now being one with Father and Son as One
No more possession as was prior to the risen Son for us to be new in the new life offered in the risen Son to stand in belief, no matter what.
Father, the Holy Spirit leading is the way I see, that Jesus paved for us all to see from continued belief, no matter whether one sins again or not. Trust me you will stop them over time, if you will not quit.
John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Believe God in risen Son for you, be freed from selfish first birth you have been in for a long while now, trust God to do that through you and it will happen if you do not quit, thank you

Matthew 4:24
And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.

Matthew 8:16
When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:

Matthew 8:33
And they that kept them fled, and went their ways into the city, and told every thing, and what was befallen to the possessed of the devils.
Matthew 12:22
Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
Matthew 19:22
But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Matthew 19:25
When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
Matthew 19:26
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Jesus revealed, the Annihilation of man, It is not possible for man to be saved, only with Father is it possible.

Then the cross came and went, in the cross, all sin gotten taken away in Jesus's Father's sight

John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Is that done by Son today and ever since his one time death, he did willingly, why? He did not need to die, did he? We the people needed that, reconciled

2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2 Corinthians 5:20
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Believe God in risen Son for you, continue to, no matter what happens, then one day you will see if you continue to not deny God even as Job would not deny God. then deeper in Jesus for us going to death once for us all. That is today done and is done forever for us the people all of us, to believe it or not. Stop the self work please see the Chapter of Phil 3 all of Philippians thank you

Hebrews 10:10
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
John 19:28-30
After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

What was his purpose?
Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
that is done in Son once for us all to believe, receive and see, we are released from devil possession
Thanks for the post

Aaron56 · Monday at 11:38 AM

"in them". No.
Directly influencing them? Yes. Many times a spirit can have influence over a person because of something they had no choice about: trauma, abuse, family traditions. When I help believers deal with issues I always hep them deal with, and renounce, spiritual influences that came with the problem.

keepingthingsreal · Monday at 12:00 PM

homwardbound said:

Speaking of mindsets, my mind is elsewhere at the moment, but I will quickly say that this whole spirit vs. flesh thing has been totally misinterpreted by many, and it has wrought horrific results. In other words, in the context of his epistles, and in the context of what was transpiring in his day, Paul was contrasting a person who was under the law with only a circumcision in the foreskin of his flesh with a person who had been saved by grace with a circumcision in their heart or spirit. The former could not live the way that God requires us to live, but the latter could by the power of the indwelling Spirit of God. This is what Paul was actually talking about. In other words, he most definitely was not talking about some sort of dual nature that Christians allegedly have.

Anyhow, this topic does pertain to the discussion at hand, but I will need to address it further at some other point in time.

Blain · Monday at 12:16 PM

keepingthingsreal said:

On another note, I just received notice that one of my nieces died in a car accident last night.

I did start a thread about it, but it will probably take a while for that to appear. In the interim, any prayers for the surviving family members would be appreciated. I have been separated from my family for years because they have despised me simply because I am a Christian, so this situation is a bit awkward as well. Of course, I will put that aside to try to be with my family, but I am also presently dealing with a severely sprained foot which has pretty much kept me bedridden for the last 7 or 8 days. Anyhow, just please pray for them and me. Thank you.

Blain · Monday at 12:18 PM

keepingthingsreal said:

On another note, I just received notice that one of my nieces died in a car accident last night.

I did start a thread about it, but it will probably take a while for that to appear. In the interim, any prayers for the surviving family members would be appreciated. I have been separated from my family for years because they have despised me simply because I am a Christian, so this situation is a bit awkward as well. Of course, I will put that aside to try to be with my family, but I am also presently dealing with a severely sprained foot which has pretty much kept me bedridden for the last 7 or 8 days. Anyhow, just please pray for them and me. Thank you.

I am so sorry to hear this and will keep you and yours in my prayers I also am sorry about your family treating you that way and your borken foot

keepingthingsreal · Monday at 12:33 PM

Blain said:

Thanks, Blain.

The saddest part of this, and it has not really sunk in yet, is that my niece was probably not saved. She and I were very close when she was younger, but years of slander, and mostly from her mother (my sister) and father, turned her away from me. In other words, their contempt for Christ, and for me as a Christian, is what motivated them to keep me away from her and her siblings (her two brothers).

From what I have heard, she had been in the hospital for 10 days while undergoing a host of different tests. Apparently, some blood was detected near her brain, and she was suffering numbness in her fingers, and in her right leg. Her brother, my nephew, was her doctor, so God only knows what he must be thinking and feeling right now. The day after being released from the hospital, she was in a fatal car accident. Right now, it is unknown what caused the accident. They are thinking that she might have had some sort of aneurysm, or that she might have just lost feeling/experienced numbness in her right leg/foot when she was driving. In her condition, I don't understand why she was driving in the first place. Anyhow, they are planning on having an autopsy done sometime soon.

Btw, my foot is not broken. Just sprained, and it is gradually getting better.

Thanks again for your kind words and any prayers. Life is no joke, and I fear for those who seek to turn others away from the gospel.

Blain · Monday at 12:37 PM

keepingthingsreal said:

Thanks, Blain.

The saddest part of this, and it has not really sunk in yet, is that my niece was probably not saved. She and I were very close when she was younger, but years of slander, and mostly from her mother (my sister) and father, turned her away from me. In other words, their contempt for Christ, and for me as a Christian, is what motivated them to keep me away from her and her siblings (her two brothers).

From what I have heard, she had been in the hospital for 10 days while undergoing a host of different tests. Apparently, some blood was detected near her brain, and she was suffering numbness in her fingers, and in her right leg. Her brother, my nephew, was her doctor, so God only knows what he must be thinking and feeling right now. The day after being released from the hospital, she was in a fatal car accident. Right now, it is unknown what caused the accident. They are thinking that she might have had some sort of aneurysm, or that she might have just lost feeling/experienced numbness in her right leg/foot when she was driving. In her condition, I don't understand why she was driving in the first place. Anyhow, they are planning on having an autopsy done sometime soon.

Btw, my foot is not broken. Just sprained, and it is gradually getting better.

Thanks again for your kind words and any prayers. Life is no joke, and I fear for those who seek to turn others away from the gospel.

Yes life is unpredictable one day you can be alive and the next your not this is why we need to do our best to help the lost be saved because we don't know when our time is up

keepingthingsreal · Monday at 12:42 PM

Blain said:

You're right. Solomon said it best.

Ecc 9:12
For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them.

homwardbound · Monday at 12:59 PM

keepingthingsreal said:

Speaking of mindsets, my mind is elsewhere at the moment, but I will quickly say that this whole spirit vs. flesh thing has been totally misinterpreted by many, and it has wrought horrific results. In other words, in the context of his epistles, and in the context of what was transpiring in his day, Paul was contrasting a person who was under the law with only a circumcision in the foreskin of his flesh with a person who had been saved by grace with a circumcision in their heart or spirit. The former could not live the way that God requires us to live, but the latter could by the power of the indwelling Spirit of God. This is what Paul was actually talking about. In other words, he most definitely was not talking about some sort of dual nature that Christians allegedly have.

Anyhow, this topic does pertain to the discussion at hand, but I will need to address it further at some other point in time.

no need for me, I agree, thank you, that is informative
This is exactly what I am talking about, thanks for the literal point

Kroogz · Monday at 2:36 PM

Aaron56 said:

I agree. Most believers agree with this. And scripture tells us that we can be influenced and highly influenced by demons/doctrine of demons. And the Lords prayer proves that that is as far as satan can go with believers.
John 17
13But now I am coming to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves. 14I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15I am not asking You to take them out of the world, but to keep them away from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. 18Just as You sent Me into the world, I also sent them into the world. 19And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, so that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.

Since Scripture tells us (believers)we can be influenced by the evil one. What is this prayer for then? satan can't go any further than that.....Like indwelling believers.

homwardbound · Monday at 3:02 PM

Aaron56 said:

"in them". No.
Directly influencing them? Yes. Many times a spirit can have influence over a person because of something they had no choice about: trauma, abuse, family traditions. When I help believers deal with issues I always hep them deal with, and renounce, spiritual influences that came with the problem.[/QUOTE

Trust, God to use us, to reveal truth of the influence (oppression) over ourselves and others. God knowing the error in each person. Not what one might think, many times does not help, yet many think they have and have not, when self nature leading in trying to do it right.Remembering I do not know, yet God does. Being made wise as a serpent, remain harmless as a dove. I know I want to help. Sometimes i hear just trust, God will send another vessel. Seeing there is a time for everything. Thanks Aaron

Aaron56 · Monday at 3:07 PM

Kroogz said:

Since the demonic cannot read our minds we must bear witness to our repentance. For example, if a person was traumatized by their father for always saying they were worthless, and they believed it, when they repent of their belief it should be declared. Then, they should renounce, vocally, the rejection/worthlessness, etc. put on them by their father.

As a finishing move, it is always good to speak over them the truth of the Lord about their worth and value to Him.

Kroogz · Monday at 3:10 PM

And one thing I believe gets overlooked. Demons/satan are the exception, not the rule. They get way too much credit.

Demons and satan pretty much leave us alone, we self destruct.

Kroogz · Monday at 3:14 PM

Aaron56 said:

Which is scriptural. We see the ending of "casting out demons" and the proliferation of His Gospel in the NT.

The Gospel preaches the preciousness of the Lord Jesus Christ and how EVERYONE is precious to Him.

Aaron56 · Monday at 3:15 PM

Kroogz said:

I agree to a point.

What the world calls "multi-culturalism" is largely reverence for facets of demonic culture: everything from animal worship to child sacrifice has been whitewashed so that are mere symbols of their demonic origin. Even things like medical science can be traumatizing and pursued because of fear.

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