Demons

[keepingthingsreal]

We get deliverance by commanding the evil spirit or demon to leave. Some stronger ones may take some persistence to be rid of. We need to find someone who knows their authority in Christ and who will not allow the demon to argue. Those who minister deliverance must have the cooperation of the person who is bound.

I agree, and I believe that all of these points can be proven from scripture. In the case of children, I believe, based upon biblical accounts, that the permission of at least one parent (or caregiver) is required.

I've been delivered myself from a number of evil spirits and I've ministered deliverance to others who are bound.

So have I. On both counts.

It is not at all spooky or scary.

It wasn't spooky or scary in Jesus' ministry, or in the ministry of the apostles, and it has not been spooky or scary in my own experiences either. Of course, Satan would have us to think differently. It seems that a lot of people get their impressions of deliverance from movies like "The Exorcist" as opposed to getting them from the Bible.

Satan seeks to put us off through fear of what others will think, shame and condemnation. I'd much prefer a little embarrassment to being bound by a demon.

Same here. I have not only been delivered from spirits who tormented me for years in a matter of minutes, but I know a lot of other Christians who have too.

Anyhow, the onus of proving such things from scripture falls upon the shoulders of people like us, and I think that before this discussion is through, enough scriptural evidence will be provided to at least make some people here consider changing their current points of view. Most importantly, and as I have already stated here, my hope is that some people who have been tormented for years might find hope through the deliverance ministry which is still available in our day and age.

 

[Gideon300]

You know my mom did satanic rituals on me when I was very young and my entire life it is as if some unseen force is always against me I have known very little love and more despair than anything I am glad you were saved from that though

Before I was 2 years old, I suffered dysentery and whooping cough, both of which should have killed me. Until I was about 5, I had a "guardian angel", in reality, an evil spirit, in whichever house we lived in. I suffered nightmares where I would wake screaming in terror. One neighbour (my dad was military. We moved around a lot) was a Christian. I don't remember the incident, but my mother said that the evil spirit left, presumably because the neighbour prayed for us. If I had not been saved, I doubt that I would have seen my 21st birthday.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

For example, think of an alcoholic or a porn addict.

Jesus said that Satan has lusts or desires, and so do demons. In fact, according to Jesus, when people commit certain types of sins, they are doing or fulfilling Satan's lusts or desires.

Jhn 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

When it comes to porn, I know a lot of people who were set free from that bondage when they confessed the sins which gave place to spirits who then sought to fulfill their lusts through the members of those who had yielded themselves to them, and when the spirits were cast out in Jesus' name. In theory, at least, this ought to make sense. In other words, if one can get rid of the spirit that is lusting within them, then the lust itself will disappear as well.

A simpler example might be fear. If someone watches a lot of horror movies, then they ought not be surprised if they become fearful or if they start having nightmares when they sleep.

 

[Snackersmom]

I was in effect given over to the devil from birth. I was saved in spite of this. it was a few years before the occult spirit was discerned and I was delivered.

Thank you for posting this. I have personally known two people who were saved and later an evil spirit was discerned (in both cases it was present before salvation). Both said they were told directly about it by God before any humans said anything about it. They were both eventually delivered and are doing fine now.

I don't have any super-concrete verses to explain this belief, but I'm going to state it anyway..... I believe that The Holy Spirit goes wherever it wants, including into a posessed person who wants to receive Jesus.....demons cannot, in essence, "Keep God out". In that case, since The Holy Spirit is more powerful than any power of the enemy, the evil spirit is somewhat "bound" but still present, and its presence can become especially apparent when the person strays from God. The demon can be cast out after salvation and I do not believe it could enter back in, though I think it could still hang around the periphery and oppress or influence the person, especially if they fall into sin like Annanias did.

From Jobs story we see that satan wasn't allowed to affect him unless God allowed it. And we also see that satan was allowed to come before God and even spoke with Him. So clearly, God can handle the devil and his minions... I don't think their presence limits God's presence or power one bit, really. Greater is He that is in us, than he that is in the world......

 

[Blain]

Before I was 2 years old, I suffered dysentery and whooping cough, both of which should have killed me. Until I was about 5, I had a "guardian angel", in reality, an evil spirit, in whichever house we lived in. I suffered nightmares where I would wake screaming in terror. One neighbour (my dad was military. We moved around a lot) was a Christian. I don't remember the incident, but my mother said that the evil spirit left, presumably because the neighbour prayed for us. If I had not been saved, I doubt that I would have seen my 21st birthday.

Man you had it rough God must really have a great plan for you for a demon to be so strong in your life at such an early age praise God you were delivered

 

[Gideon300]

I would think attacks would not be the same as a demon dwelling in them and demons require permission to enter into someone so likely falling to attacks would not equate the dweling of a demon. I myself have crumbled under severe attacks even going so far as to curse God for it but no demon ever entered into me

I wonder what would make a demon dwel in a believer to begin with?

The first requirement is ignorance. The person who says that they cannot be deceived is already deceived. The armour of God is for a reason and the Word makes it clear that Satan and the forces of darkness are the real enemy.

Ananias was a believer yet he thought he could make himself look better by exaggerating his generosity. Peter asked him, "Why has Satan filled your heart?" The word "filled" is the same word used as "be filled with the Spirit".

Satan and God both require the cooperation of the will of man. God always is honest, righteous and holy. He will not violate man's free will. Satan has no such qualms. If we let down our guard, evil spirits will take opportunity. That's why we need to be sober and vigilant (1 Peter 5:8).

Demons did not flee just because Jesus was with the possessed person. Jesus commanded them to leave. Demons do not leave automatically when someone gets born again.

 

[Kroogz]

Acts 5~~4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.”

Held personally responsible for the lie. Influenced by the father of lies, and personally chose to follow the lie.

If it was possession/indwelling..........The response would have been to cast them out.

 

[Snackersmom]

You know my mom did satanic rituals on me when I was very young and my entire life it is as if some unseen force is always against me I have known very little love and more despair than anything I am glad you were saved from that though

Hi Blain!

Do you mind if I pray that God removes anything bad that could be lingering from your Moms' rituals? I'm not saying there is anything but I think we're better safe than wondering.

 

[Adstar]

Hey, Blain.

This is a very good question, and all that I ask is for everybody to consider what I am about to say.

I think that we would all probably agree (not that anybody ever seems to agree on anything in the BDF) that one of the arguments against a Christian possibly having a demon inside of them goes something like this.

A Christian's body is the temple of the Holy Ghost, and the Holy Ghost and a demon cannot co-exist in the same temple.

I mean, I have heard that argument many times over the years, and I trust that at least some of you have heard it as well, but I believe that scripture refutes this argument, and I will give you one example of that now.

1Ki 22:13
And the messenger that was gone to call Micaiah spake unto him, saying, Behold now, the words of the prophets declare good unto the king with one mouth: let thy word, I pray thee, be like the word of one of them, and speak that which is good.
1Ki 22:14
And Micaiah said, As the LORD liveth, what the LORD saith unto me, that will I speak.
1Ki 22:15
So he came to the king. And the king said unto him, Micaiah, shall we go against Ramothgilead to battle, or shall we forbear? And he answered him, Go, and prosper: for the LORD shall deliver it into the hand of the king.
1Ki 22:16
And the king said unto him, How many times shall I adjure thee that thou tell me nothing but that which is true in the name of the LORD?
1Ki 22:17
And he said, I saw all Israel scattered upon the hills, as sheep that have not a shepherd: and the LORD said, These have no master: let them return every man to his house in peace.
1Ki 22:18
And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would prophesy no good concerning me, but evil?
1Ki 22:19
And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
1Ki 22:20
And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
1Ki 22:21
And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
1Ki 22:22
And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
1Ki 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

In context, the King of Israel, Ahab, wanted the King of Judah, Jehoshaphat, to join him in battle at Ramothgilead. All of Ahab's false prophets prophesied of victory, but Jehoshaphat wanted to hear from a true prophet of God, and Micaiah was summoned. Pay close attention to what this true prophet of the LORD saw.

In verse 19, he saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left hand. This throne, I believe we would all agree (if we are honest), was inside of the temple in heaven. All the host of heaven included different spirits (vss. 20-22) who stood before the LORD, in this temple in heaven, and who offered to go and persuade Ahab that he might go and fall in battle at Ramothgilead (vs. 20). Finally, in verse 22, a spirit was chosen, and it was sent to be a lying spirit in the mouths of all of Ahab's false prophets (vs. 23).

Was this lying spirit a demon or the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth?

Obviously, it was a demon, and it was seen in heaven, in the temple, where God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost all reside.

1Jo 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Seeing how a demon can co-exist with God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost in the literal temple in heaven, why should we believe that they cannot co-exist in the figurative temple (a Christian's body) here on earth?

Do you understand the question?

If you or others do, then I would be curious to hear any of your answers.

Thank you.

Your scripture does not show the Holy Spirit dwelling within the prophet at the same time as the other spirit.. In fact why do you seem to assume the Holy Spirit indwelled anyone before the times of Jesus? Before the Day of penticost?

Yeah a Spirit from God can and did inspire the prophets to write the scriptures but does that mean they where perminantly indwelled by that Spirit or does that mean the Spirit was Always the Holy Spirit of God.. Remember the Holy Spirit is not just some created spirit or angle.. The Holy Spirit is God like Jesus is God and the Father is God..

Also another point if you read the Book of Job satan had access to enter heaven during the times of Job.. But does that mean satan has a perminant place within God or can satan possess God.. Nope..

 

[Gideon300]

Man you had it rough God must really have a great plan for you for a demon to be so strong in your life at such an early age praise God you were delivered

I regularly thank God that I was saved and protected even before I was born again. For a few years I had a motor bike. Getting drunk and riding the bike is an accident looking for somewhere to happen. I had a few minor excursions into the shrubbery but nothing serious. Alcohol poisoning was another near lethal problem. Yes, God is good.

 

[Blain]

Hi Blain!

Do you mind if I pray that God removes anything bad that could be lingering from your Moms' rituals? I'm not saying there is anything but I think we're better safe than wondering.

by all means yes this unseen force has always been lingering so I know something is there

 

[Adstar]

How about Ananias and Sapphira?
Acts 5:3

Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and withhold some of the proceeds from the land? Did it not belong to you...........

Well that indicates that Ananias and Sapphira had either not recieved the Holy Spirit or had fallen away from belief and trusting at the time and satan taking the opportunity infuenced them to do what they did.. In any case if the Holy Spirit was within Ananias satan would not have been able to possess him..

 

[keepingthingsreal]

I would think attacks would not be the same as a demon dwelling in them and demons require permission to enter into someone so likely falling to attacks would not equate the dweling of a demon.

Can a Christian give such permission; whether knowingly or ignorantly? I believe that they can. For example, Paul said:

Eph 4:26
Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Eph 4:27
Neither give place to the devil.

Here, Paul was admonishing born again Christians to not give place to the devil. He would not have given such an admonishment if it was not possible for a Christian to do the same. In context, this giving of place had to do with anger or with letting the sun go down upon one's wrath. Whenever I read this, I immediately think on what happened with Cain.

Gen 4:6
And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

By not dealing with his wrath, Cain opened the door to Satan. Instead of ruling over him, he succumbed to Satan's desires for him, and he wound up fulfilling Satan's desire or lust as went on to murder his brother Abel.

Can a Christian similarly open such a door, or can a Christian similarly give place to the devil? In my own experiences, yes, they most certainly can, and I have seen spirits of murder (even if that is not their proper name) come out of people in Jesus' name.

Elsewhere, while also writing to born again Christians, Paul said this:

Rom 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Christians can yield themselves or their members, whether willfully or ignorantly, to the wrong types of spirits. Again, the area of pornography is a very real example of this. If someone watches pornographic movies or looks at pornographic images, then I can pretty much guarantee you that they are going to have very real issues with lust going forward. Why? Because they open themselves up to demonic spirits which will then seek to fulfil their own lusts through that person's members which they yielded to them.

 

[Blain]

I regularly thank God that I was saved and protected even before I was born again. For a few years I had a motor bike. Getting drunk and riding the bike is an accident looking for somewhere to happen. I had a few minor excursions into the shrubbery but nothing serious. Alcohol poisoning was another near lethal problem. Yes, God is good.

interesting that you started out being oppressed by demons and ended up oppresing them
I have more than a few times encountered demons they have an unatural hatred for us and honestly I think we need to have a crash course on spiritual warfare because many don't know what actual spiritual warfare is or how deeply severe it is either

 

[Blain]

Can a Christian give such permission; whether knowingly or ignorantly? I believe that they can. For example, Paul said:

Eph 4:26
Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Eph 4:27
Neither give place to the devil.

Here, Paul was admonishing born again Christians to not give place to the devil. He would not have given such an admonishment if it was not possible for a Christian to do the same. In context, this giving of place had to do with anger or with letting the sun go down upon one's wrath. Whenever I read this, I immediately think on what happened with Cain.

Gen 4:6
And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

By not dealing with his wrath, Cain opened the door to Satan. Instead of ruling over him, he succumbed to Satan's desires for him, and he wound up fulfilling Satan's desire or lust as went on to murder his brother Abel.

Can a Christian similarly open such a door, or can a Christian similarly give place to the devil? In my own experiences, yes, they most certainly can, and I have seen spirits of murder (even if that is not their proper name) come out of people in Jesus' name.

Elsewhere, while also writing to born again Christians, Paul said this:

Rom 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Christians can yield themselves or their members, whether willfully or ignorantly, to the wrong types of spirits. Again, the area of pornography is a very real example of this. If someone watches pornographic movies or looks at pornographic images, then I can pretty much guarantee you that they are going to have very real issues with lust going forward. Why? Because they open themselves up to demonic spirits which will then seek to fulfil their own lusts through that person's members which they yielded to them.

I think it depends on what giving place means it could mean giving a place for the devil to reside but what Paul is saying here is not the same as what we are talking about but I do think a Christian can give permission either knowingly or unknowingly if you open one door it may allow something to come in but I think it is much more rare for any believer to be having a demon dweling in them not impossible I suppose but much more rare

 

[Kroogz]

Your scripture does not show the Holy Spirit dwelling within the prophet at the same time as the other spirit.. In fact why do you seem to assume the Holy Spirit indwelled anyone before the times of Jesus? Before the Day of penticost?

Yeah a Spirit from God can and did inspire the prophets to write the scriptures but does that mean they where perminantly indwelled by that Spirit or does that mean the Spirit was Always the Holy Spirit of God.. Remember the Holy Spirit is not just some created spirit or angle.. The Holy Spirit is God like Jesus is God and the Father is God..

Also another point if you read the Book of Job satan had access to enter heaven during the times of Job.. But does that mean satan has a perminant place within God or can satan possess God.. Nope..

Satan had permission to do anything but kill Job. Did satan ever indwell Job? Nope.

 

[Blain]

ok so in greek giving place is a verb to yield so would yeilding to the devil be the same as him indweling in the believer?

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Your scripture does not show the Holy Spirit dwelling within the prophet at the same time as the other spirit.

That wasn't my intention. Instead, my intention was to show that a lying spirit (in that case) and the Holy Spirit both co-existed in the same temple in heaven at the same time.

In fact why do you seem to assume the Holy Spirit indwelled anyone before the times of Jesus? Before the Day of penticost?

It is not an assumption on my part. Instead, contrary to very popular, yet erroneous teachings, there are a lot of people in the Old Testament who had the Spirit of Christ or God IN THEM. Here is but one example of this biblical truth.

1Pe 1:10
Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Yeah a Spirit from God can and did inspire the prophets to write the scriptures but does that mean they where perminantly indwelled by that Spirit or does that mean the Spirit was Always the Holy Spirit of God.. Remember the Holy Spirit is not just some created spirit or angle.. The Holy Spirit is God like Jesus is God and the Father is God..

There you go. You just admitted it yourself.

Also another point if you read the Book of Job satan had access to enter heaven during the times of Job.

Satan still has access to heaven in our day and age, and the Bible makes this clear.

But does that mean satan has a perminant place within God or can satan possess God.. Nope..

I never said a word about "possession" except to say that that is not what I am talking about here, so please do not shift the goalposts. As far as permanency is concerned, everyone in the Bible who got delivered from a demon would have permanently been indwelt by the same if they were not cast out at some point in time. Seeing how demons always needed to be cast out of people, what makes you think that any demons that a Christian had in them before they got saved just disappeared by some other means?

Anyhow, I am really tired, so I will have to check back here tomorrow. Good night.

 

[Snackersmom]

by all means yes this unseen force has always been lingering so I know something is there

Alrighty! Also, it never hurts to ask The Holy Spirit to fill you and guide you, that can help keep the nasties at bay...... also keeping your heart and conscience clean before God and man. Sounds like you already know that though!

 

[keepingthingsreal]

I think it depends on what giving place means it could mean giving a place for the devil to reside but what Paul is saying here is not the same as what we are talking about but I do think a Christian can give permission either knowingly or unknowingly if you open one door it may allow something to come in but I think it is much more rare for any believer to be having a demon dweling in them not impossible I suppose but much more rare

In my experiences, it is very commonplace.

Blain, I think that you have a pretty good idea of where my heart is at, so before I retire for the night, I will reiterate my intention and/or hope for starting this thread, and it is this:

That people might be set free from spirits which have been tormenting them.

Do I believe that every type of torment must be demonic in nature? Not necessarily, but that is often the case, and I am trying to offer hope to the suffering that they might not know is available to them.

I'm bushed. Good night.