Daniel 11:37, The Future Antichrist Will Be A Jew/Hebrew In Decent

[Runningman]

because y'all have badgered and attacked her for a couple days, so she's basically had it up to here and doesn't think you're doing anything but laying a trap with your question so you can call her a heretic. put yourself in her position


((and i do the same dang thing, i even do it to you -- i'm a lot meaner to people than i ought to be, go a lot further than i need to, and get all high and mighty when i'm sure i'm right and someone else is off the rails -- we're supposed to be gentle and loving. i'm personally convicted about my own failures in that and trying really hard to walk in the light on things like this))

That wasn't my intention here. A claim that Jesus is Michael the archangel was made and I wanted see it hashed out.

From my very first comment and onward, literally none of my questions received a direct answer even though I initially made efforts to treat it like a good faith discussion by giving direct answers to questions. Soon I realized this wasn't a quid pro quo discussion.

The way conversations and debates should occur is by reciprocating questions and answers to each other. It shouldn't involve ignoring questions and pressing onward with a narrative. When it does, there's no reason to treat it like a good faith discussion, in my honest opinion.

 

[DeanM]

Someone posting in here argued against the notion that the Lord Jesus is an angel and that perhaps it is a "demotion" of sorts to view him that way. My understanding that Michael, the Archangel is the Lord Jesus is solid. I cannot see it any other way.

But, interestingly, to the point of Jesus NOT being an "angel," I came upon these events in my study of Daniel today: (I'm cutting/pasting KJV scripture exactly and highlighting the point I wish to make.) Consider it, if you will.

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

26 Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire.

27 And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.

28 Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.

I belive the original language states "like A son of God" not "THE son of God". In Genesis, and im sure other books, angels are referred to as sons of God. Its understandable how this could be confusing.

 

[posthuman]

It’s really simple man, the Nicene Creed cannot be true if an Angel is also God. I believe in the Nicene Creed, but you’ve entered into being a non-Trinitarian with that belief you are entertaining. I just want to make sure you understand that.

No, he always appeared as something other than an Angel. The Man in Linen with two Angels in Daniel 12. Hes the Rock the Jews followed in the Desert according to Paul, he's the Rock that is cut from the Mountain that is cast into the Statue in Dan. 2. He is spoken of as SALVATION (which in Hebrew is Yeshua) in the Old Testament.

who is in the burning bush in Exodus 3?

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

I belive the original language states "like A son of God" not "THE son of God". In Genesis, and im sure other books, angels are referred to as sons of God. Its understandable how this could be confusing.

Jewish scholars translated it "like the Son of God."

It's a good thing that Michael "the great prince" stands up for the people of Israel in the time of trouble and delivers those that are written in the book and also resurrects the dead from their graves.

That's a lot for a common rank and file angel to have to do.

 

[DeanM]

Jewish scholars translated it "like the Son of God."

It's a good thing that Michael "the great prince" stands up for the people of Israel in the time of trouble and delivers those that are written in the book and also resurrects the dead from their graves.

That's a lot for a common rank and file angel to have to do.

The KJV is the only translation that says THE son of God. I tried to help you but I see a mistranslation isnt the problem. I too like the KJV but you need a good study/commentary bible as the KJV has errors here and there. Good luck.

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

The KJV is the only translation that says THE son of God. I tried to help you but I see a mistranslation isnt the problem. I too like the KJV but you need a good study/commentary bible as the KJV has errors here and there. Good luck.

I checked the Tanakh. Here is their translation.

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/daniel-chapter-3

 

[DeanM]

I checked the Tanakh. Here is their translation.

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/daniel-chapter-3

https://www.kjvtoday.com/home/son-of-god-or-son-of-the-gods-in-daniel-325

 

[GodMyFortress]

who is in the burning bush in Exodus 3?

It says who it is:
6 And he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

 

[crossnote]

It says who it is:
6 And he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

Ah, but you must define each of the following...'God', 'Abraham', 'Isaac', 'Jacob', and 'Moses'.
(tongue in cheek)

 

[GodMyFortress]

Ah, but you must define each of the following...'God', 'Abraham', 'Isaac', 'Jacob', and 'Moses'.
(tongue in cheek)

Lol in any other thread that wouldn’t be necessary but this one...

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

It says who it is:
6 And he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

It also says the angel of the Lord. You forgot to mention that one.

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

https://www.kjvtoday.com/home/son-of-god-or-son-of-the-gods-in-daniel-325

The problem with commentaries is they're just men commenting from their own understanding.

Translations are men translating with their own understanding.

But, the difference between the two above is that translating the scriptures for the people was a work that God was very much in control of right down to every letter, word and error. That is my belief. It's his word and he controls it. So, I trust that every letter, word and error is there for God's purpose as he intends it to be read.

Therefore, I trust the bible more than I trust men's commentaries. I realize that scholarly and intellectual discussion is important to some people. But to me, it's all folly. I place my faith solely in the Bible where I'm confident that it is translated according to God's precise micromanaged oversight. I believe that.

Now in this particular verse of Nebs (I can't spell it, don't make me look it up, you know who I mean) says what God says he said in that verse. Nebs was a heathen king, but virtuous words in praise of God came out of his mouth. That could only have happened one way: For the spirit to move him to speak it. I don't believe Nebs would have said those words of his own. I believe the spirit spoke the words for our benefit and understanding as God intends for us.

Take a look at the Book of Jonah. Jonah is one of the more difficult and rebellious prophets we read. Look at Jonah Chapter 2. It's all virtuous spirit moved speak. How different does Jonah sound in Chapter 2 compared to what we read him say in the other chapters.

Look at Elizabeth and Mary upon greeting, each pregnant, they both break out prophesying to each other. Why? The spirit moved them to speak his words for us to read today.

 

[randyk]

The (Little Horn) or Antichrist Of Daniel Will Be A Jew/Hebrew, His Ancestry Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)

Daniel 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

2 Kings 21:22KJV
22 And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.

2 Chronicles 28:25KJV
25 And in every several city of Judah he made high places to burn incense unto other gods, and provoked to anger the Lord God of his fathers.

One reason he may *not* be a Jew is because his foreshadows, or types, were Gentiles, including Antiochus 4 and the Roman Emperor. The 4th Beast of Dan 7, which I believe was Rome, will reconsolidate in the last days, through a union of 10 states. Since Rome was based in Europe, and Roman culture continued in Europe, I believe that Europe will become the base for the Antichristian Empire. This means the Antichrist will likely be of European stock--not Jewish.

Just a thought...

 

[crossnote]

It also says the angel of the Lord. You forgot to mention that one.

Are we going to make a case now that any angel is God?...

Exodus 3:14 (KJV) And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

 

[Truth7t7]

Jewish scholars translated it "like the Son of God."

It's a good thing that Michael "the great prince" stands up for the people of Israel in the time of trouble and delivers those that are written in the book and also resurrects the dead from their graves.

That's a lot for a common rank and file angel to have to do.

Direct Question: Do you believe in a literal place of torment upon death for the wicked "Hell"?

 

[Rondonmon]

who is in the burning bush in Exodus 3?

I Am that I Am thus he is God.

 

[posthuman]

No, he always appeared as something other than an Angel

have a closer look at Judges 13

The Angel of the LORD announces the birth of Samson -- and they say, "we have seen God"
who is this?
His name is called Wonderful, and He ascends to heaven before their eyes - compare John 3:13.
who is this?

 

[posthuman]

It says who it is:
6 And he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

I Am that I Am thus he is God.

yes!
and He is also called The Angel of the LORD -- Exodus 3:2

the Invisible God made visible, Colossians 1:15 → Christ is God, Moses saw and spoke with The Angel of the LORD, who calls Himself I AM ((John 8:24)), but no one has seen the Father.

 

[posthuman]

It says who it is:
6 And he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

I Am that I Am thus he is God.

compare also The Angel of the LORD appearing to Joshua in Joshua 5:13

Joshua falls down and worships Him.
Joshua is not rebuked for this.

compare Revelation 19:10 & 22:9 -- a mere servant of the LORD would not allow anyone to worship him, but the One who stood before Joshua allowed Himself to be worshipped ((compare also Luke 24:52 -- Christ Jesus let Himself be worshipped))

so who is The Angel of the LORD who stood before Joshua, being seen, tho the Father is unseen, and accepted worship?

the Invisible God made visible, the Son of God - Christ.
lo! He has appeared as an angel in times before

 

[DeanM]

The problem with commentaries is they're just men commenting from their own understanding.

Translations are men translating with their own understanding.

But, the difference between the two above is that translating the scriptures for the people was a work that God was very much in control of right down to every letter, word and error. That is my belief. It's his word and he controls it. So, I trust that every letter, word and error is there for God's purpose as he intends it to be read.

Therefore, I trust the bible more than I trust men's commentaries. I realize that scholarly and intellectual discussion is important to some people. But to me, it's all folly. I place my faith solely in the Bible where I'm confident that it is translated according to God's precise micromanaged oversight. I believe that.

Now in this particular verse of Nebs (I can't spell it, don't make me look it up, you know who I mean) says what God says he said in that verse. Nebs was a heathen king, but virtuous words in praise of God came out of his mouth. That could only have happened one way: For the spirit to move him to speak it. I don't believe Nebs would have said those words of his own. I believe the spirit spoke the words for our benefit and understanding as God intends for us.

Take a look at the Book of Jonah. Jonah is one of the more difficult and rebellious prophets we read. Look at Jonah Chapter 2. It's all virtuous spirit moved speak. How different does Jonah sound in Chapter 2 compared to what we read him say in the other chapters.

Look at Elizabeth and Mary upon greeting, each pregnant, they both break out prophesying to each other. Why? The spirit moved them to speak his words for us to read today.

This horse is dead. Good luck on your journey.