Christians Are Not Sinners

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wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#121
Feb 24, 2009
3,229
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New Zealand
#121
EDENgate said:
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—because anyone who has died has been set free from sin. Romans 6:5-7


https://www.alyssajhoward.com/2018/10/12/no-longer-a-sinner/
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It's weird, I agree with most of your posts, but the conclusion is different. You do believe that christians do still sin, so then there is no difference.. so I am thinking you are meaning christians aren't defined by their sin.. eg.. someone in the bible identified as an adulterer as characteristic of their whole life.. obviously unsaved.

But where it goes off , is that illogical break.. that you are calling us illogical on... in the fact that if at any time a believer sins.. then they are a sinner.

The facts need to be laid out here.. there are many christians with habitual sin problems. They aren't faithful christians, but they aren't unsaved. They EXIST!

It shouldn't really be that way.. but the way the world is now.. many are saved but dormant in their faith.

So.. have you considered the amount of christians who have issues with looking at internet porn? I can admit to this problem.. it does mean I am a sinner when I have gotten into it.

There are actually many many christians who are in ministry, have a family, have a good job.. love God.. but have a problem with porn.

Now, this should really.. when you think about AMPLIFY the love of God. Because while He disciplines a believer.. He doesn't undo His grace commitment to them.

Peace
 
F

FreeGrace2

Banned
#122
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
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#122
VARob said:
We are still sinners. If we weren't, we would no longer sin.
oyster67 said:
Your definition of sinner differs from the Biblical definition of sinner. If you insist upon creating you own dictionary, then it will be a challenge to continue communicating with you.
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VARob is correct.

A sinner is one who lives in a state of rebellion against the lordship of Christ.
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If you are correct, then you will have a verse that says what you say. Do you?

A sinner is one who refuses to repent and admit he is wrong.
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A sinner is one who sins. Biblical.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#123
#123
So here we have the problem. Jesus defines what is required when He says,"you must love The Lord God with all your heart mind and strength, and that you must love your neighbor as yourself.
So in order for us to be perfectly sin free and therefore not a sinner we must Love God perfectly and our neighbor also as we live ourself. Which not one no not even one ever does not even for a millisecond.
And it is written that if we say we have no sin we are liars and the truth is not in us. And this is why because we fail continually to love perfectly and if you say you do love perfectly you arent even a saved person. Then you must repent of your sin.
We are not more than a wretched sinner who deserves both temporal and eternal punishment. We are only saved because He has mercy on us by His Grace and therefore we cry out Father, have mercy on me, a sinner. And this is why we live a life of repentance.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#124
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#124
wattie said:
They aren't faithful christians, but they aren't unsaved. They EXIST!
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...and they are not "sinners." They are struggling Saints. Jesus never said we would not have battles. The difference is that the Christian fights the good fight, while the sinner just floats along down sin river. The Christian repents while the sinner just gloats and boasts about all his shenanigans.

Actually, they are faithful Christians. They just haven't been glorified yet. Overcomers always have things to overcome.

Revelation 3:21
“To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.”
 
V

VARob

Banned
#125
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
474
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#125
oyster67 said:
The difference is that the Christian fights the good fight, while the sinner just floats along down sin river. The Christian repents while the sinner just gloats and boasts about all his shenanigans.
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Some do and some don't.
 
V

VARob

Banned
#127
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
474
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#127
oyster67 said:
Then perhaps it is our definition of "Christian" that differs.
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In my understanding a Christian is a person who is born again of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13). Someone who has confessed Jesus Christ as Lord and believed in their heart that God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9). Becoming a Christian, becoming born again of the Holy Spirit is no guarantee that a person will change their behavior. God does work in us to will and to do His good pleasure, but that does not mean we do it. The Holy Spirit can be grieved. An example is the Corinthian church. They were Christians (saved), but there were all kinds of things they were doing wrong. Many of them were still committing all kinds of sin.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#128
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
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#128
VARob said:
In my understanding a Christian is a person who is born again of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13). Someone who has confessed Jesus Christ as Lord and believed in their heart that God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9). Becoming a Christian, becoming born again of the Holy Spirit is no guarantee that a person will change their behavior. God does work in us to will and to do His good pleasure, but that does not mean we do it. The Holy Spirit can be grieved. An example is the Corinthian church. They were Christians (saved), but there were all kinds of things they were doing wrong. Many of them were still committing all kinds of sin.
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A Christian must abide in the Vine, Rob. Apostacy happens.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#132
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
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#132
Hebrews 12:14
“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:”
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#133
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
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#133
Repentance is not just for those who were never born again. It is a requirement for us as well. The Christian repents, the sinner does not.
 
P

Polar

Guest
#135
#135
VARob said:
Another holier than thou response.
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this is to be expected. once someone refuses what scripture plainly states, that person becomes aggressive and finally offers lame excuses or denial even though scripture is plain on the matter they reject

obviously no one here has in any way stated they think they are better or more holy than the next person

I have now stated about a half dozen times that we have no righteousness of our own. it is the righteousness of Christ that God counts as our righteousness

there is no need for anyone to claim false things against someone because you disagree....in this case, you are disagreeing with scripture
 
P

Polar

Guest
#136
#136
VARob said:
Maybe our argument boils down to semantics.
You think a sinner is someone who is unsaved.
I think a sinner is someone who sins.
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that is you peculiar understanding of what is being said

you would do better to consider what scripture states rather then create your own beliefs. it is not about what you or I or anyone believes . It is what scriptures states is true.

I am not shocked by people who just simply make up their own beliefs, but it seems to be getting worse
 
P

Polar

Guest
#137
#137
VARob said:
We are declared righteous before God. We still sin. Anyone who thinks they don't is deceiving themself.
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no one on this thread has said we do not sin. you can stop with the false claims and trying to change what others post

VARob said:
Luke 18:13-14
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and what is that about?

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

how does this apply to salvation and our righteous standing before God? the Bible says we should humble ourselves before God. We should. however, that does not change our standing before God. your example is pre-crucifixion at any rate

VARob said:
Basically, that we can be saved through faith in Jesus Christ.
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While that is true, the grace of God means 'unmerited favor'. apparently you did not know understand that when you 'studied' Romans
 
P

Polar

Guest
#138
#138
VARob said:
In my understanding a Christian is a person who is born again of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13). Someone who has confessed Jesus Christ as Lord and believed in their heart that God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9). Becoming a Christian, becoming born again of the Holy Spirit is no guarantee that a person will change their behavior. God does work in us to will and to do His good pleasure, but that does not mean we do it. The Holy Spirit can be grieved. An example is the Corinthian church. They were Christians (saved), but there were all kinds of things they were doing wrong. Many of them were still committing all kinds of sin.
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there are many who say they believe, but there is no change in how they live

if a person continues in their sin, they have certainly NOT made Jesus Lord no matter how many times they say they have
 
V

VARob

Banned
#139
Dec 21, 2020
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#139
Polar said:
While that is true, the grace of God means 'unmerited favor'. apparently you did not know understand that when you 'studied' Romans
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There is no need to project. I know what "grace" means.
 
V

VARob

Banned
#140
Dec 21, 2020
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474
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#140
Polar said:
there are many who say they believe, but there is no change in how they live

if a person continues in their sin, they have certainly NOT made Jesus Lord no matter how many times they say they have
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Do you understand the Christian new birth? What it means to be born again of the Holy Spirit?

There is no guarantee that a Christian will act like a Christian. See 1 Cor 5:1ff.
 
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