Christ is God
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Is your bible different from mine, what version are you reading?
Mine (kjv) says in 1 timothy 5:6
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Just checking, cos I do not that some versions seem to miss out key words. Like we all know Christ is the son of God, but some people just want to take a short cut and say Christ is God. Catholics also like to say Mary is the mother of God. That causes a heap of confusion cos we know she isnt - shes the mother of Jesus.
Same family but its not a good idea to confuse people and not acknowledge that Father and son work together and are one but that doesnt mean they are completely the same. I mean do you have a son, he isnt you is he?
Mine (kjv) says in 1 timothy 5:6
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Just checking, cos I do not that some versions seem to miss out key words. Like we all know Christ is the son of God, but some people just want to take a short cut and say Christ is God. Catholics also like to say Mary is the mother of God. That causes a heap of confusion cos we know she isnt - shes the mother of Jesus.
Same family but its not a good idea to confuse people and not acknowledge that Father and son work together and are one but that doesnt mean they are completely the same. I mean do you have a son, he isnt you is he?
Another John 17:5 is worded differently from the quote you posted. In kjv it reads
And now O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory I had with thee before the world was.
jesus Christ was WITH God yes. Before the world began. Key word that seems missing from your version is WITH and it makes out something different with the funny order of the prhasing there.
And now O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory I had with thee before the world was.
jesus Christ was WITH God yes. Before the world began. Key word that seems missing from your version is WITH and it makes out something different with the funny order of the prhasing there.
John 1:13 or actually its 14 in KJV..does your bible miss out verses?
Is different again, your version says an, and a father mine says the father.
Hmm I would have trouble coming to the conclusions and assumptions you seem to have by reading your version. Also it might be why you have a lot of argument with people who stick with KJV. Cos there isnt any confusion about who God is and who Jesus is when you read KJV.
Is different again, your version says an, and a father mine says the father.
Hmm I would have trouble coming to the conclusions and assumptions you seem to have by reading your version. Also it might be why you have a lot of argument with people who stick with KJV. Cos there isnt any confusion about who God is and who Jesus is when you read KJV.
John 10 NIV
Further Conflict Over Jesus’ Claims
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
Further Conflict Over Jesus’ Claims
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
The problem with KJV is language and knowledge of nature has changed. Words in the KJV no longer exist and many have changed meanings.
For example, because of the changes in the English language, a number of words occur in the King James that make zero sense to most people today. These include the following nuggets that you will find scattered here and there:
Almug
Algum
Charashim
Chode
Cracknels
Gat
Habergeon
Hosen
Kab
Ligure
Neesed
Nusings
Ouches
ring-straked
sycamyne
trow
wimples, ….
The King James translators also translated some animal names into animals that in fact we now have pretty good reason for thinking don’t actually exist:
unicorn (Deut. 33:17)
satyr (Isa 13:21);
dragon (Deut 32:33) (for serpent)
cockatrice (Isa 11:8),
arrowsnake (Gen 49:11, in the margin).
Moreover,, there are phrases that simply don’t make sense any more to modern readers: Phrases that no longer make sense:
ouches of gold (Exod. 28:11);
collops of fat (Job 15:25);
naughty figs (Jer 24:2);
ien with (Jer. 3:2);
the ground is chapt (Jer 14:4);
brazen wall” (Jer 15:20);
rentest thy face (Jer. 4:30);
urrain of the cattle (Exod. 9:2);
And there are whole sentences that are confusing at best, virtually indecipherable (or humorous)
And Jacob sod pottage (Gen 25:29)
And Mt. Sinai was altogether on a smoke (Exoc. 19:18)
Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (Ps. 5:6)
I trow not (Luke 17:9)
We do you to wit of the grace of God (2 Cor. 8:1)
Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels (2 Cor. 6:12)
He who letteth will let (2 Thes 2:7)
The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd (Eccles. 12:11)
Other sentences make sense, but would today be considered somewhat problematic – at least for the sacred Scripture. My favorite is the one that refers to a man who: “Pisseth against the wall:…. 1 Sam 25:22, 34, I Kings 14:10!
Ouches of gold makes more sense with the modern translation of brooches of gold.
NIV and modern translations use man instead of "pisseth against the wall", something a woman can't do.
In the KJV it says "Thou shalt not kill" while modern translations say "You shall not murder".
In 1611 kill meant first degree murder.
Way too many problems with KJV.
For example, because of the changes in the English language, a number of words occur in the King James that make zero sense to most people today. These include the following nuggets that you will find scattered here and there:
Almug
Algum
Charashim
Chode
Cracknels
Gat
Habergeon
Hosen
Kab
Ligure
Neesed
Nusings
Ouches
ring-straked
sycamyne
trow
wimples, ….
The King James translators also translated some animal names into animals that in fact we now have pretty good reason for thinking don’t actually exist:
unicorn (Deut. 33:17)
satyr (Isa 13:21);
dragon (Deut 32:33) (for serpent)
cockatrice (Isa 11:8),
arrowsnake (Gen 49:11, in the margin).
Moreover,, there are phrases that simply don’t make sense any more to modern readers: Phrases that no longer make sense:
ouches of gold (Exod. 28:11);
collops of fat (Job 15:25);
naughty figs (Jer 24:2);
ien with (Jer. 3:2);
the ground is chapt (Jer 14:4);
brazen wall” (Jer 15:20);
rentest thy face (Jer. 4:30);
urrain of the cattle (Exod. 9:2);
And there are whole sentences that are confusing at best, virtually indecipherable (or humorous)
And Jacob sod pottage (Gen 25:29)
And Mt. Sinai was altogether on a smoke (Exoc. 19:18)
Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (Ps. 5:6)
I trow not (Luke 17:9)
We do you to wit of the grace of God (2 Cor. 8:1)
Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels (2 Cor. 6:12)
He who letteth will let (2 Thes 2:7)
The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd (Eccles. 12:11)
Other sentences make sense, but would today be considered somewhat problematic – at least for the sacred Scripture. My favorite is the one that refers to a man who: “Pisseth against the wall:…. 1 Sam 25:22, 34, I Kings 14:10!
Ouches of gold makes more sense with the modern translation of brooches of gold.
NIV and modern translations use man instead of "pisseth against the wall", something a woman can't do.
In the KJV it says "Thou shalt not kill" while modern translations say "You shall not murder".
In 1611 kill meant first degree murder.
Way too many problems with KJV.
He is more than a man. That is why He is called Lord, and why every knee will bow to Him 
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
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When its says God was manifest in the flesh its talking about Jesus yes.
Jesus is Lord yes because the Father hands his Kingdom to His son.
The thing is catholics take it a bit further and seek to deify Mary. They do this by saying Mary is the mother of God. And claim more things of Mary than they do for Jesus, that she was sinless, thats she ascended and that she can intercede for the saints.
Important as Mary was, she was mother to the son of God, not mother of God. When the Bible talks about God, its meaning the Father. No one has seen God at any time, the only begotten son which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him. See John 1:18
Jesus Christ was IN God. Its clear in the Bible that distinction, at least in my kjv anyway. Nobody can actually approach God unless they are sinless, only Jesus who came out of God can. Thats why the bible says Jesus sits at the right hand of God the Father.
Jesus is Lord yes because the Father hands his Kingdom to His son.
The thing is catholics take it a bit further and seek to deify Mary. They do this by saying Mary is the mother of God. And claim more things of Mary than they do for Jesus, that she was sinless, thats she ascended and that she can intercede for the saints.
Important as Mary was, she was mother to the son of God, not mother of God. When the Bible talks about God, its meaning the Father. No one has seen God at any time, the only begotten son which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him. See John 1:18
Jesus Christ was IN God. Its clear in the Bible that distinction, at least in my kjv anyway. Nobody can actually approach God unless they are sinless, only Jesus who came out of God can. Thats why the bible says Jesus sits at the right hand of God the Father.
ROFL
If that was true there wouldn't be so many gospel preaching denominations.
The early elders created the creed. They define what a Christian must believe. Everything outside of them is to agree to disagree. Anything contrary to them is heresy. Seeing all of the gospel preaching denominations means there is an abundance of disagreements!!
Where have you been living that you haven't seen these disagreements. Here is an example. I keep this file for people like you. Refute either side if you can!!
Quinquarticular Controversy
The diametrically opposed Calvinist and Armenian 5 points
Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints
Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace
For a deeper discussion of the differences go to these web sites,
https://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html
Arminianism vs Calvinism Controversial Passages
https://www.xenos.org/essays/calvinism-arminianism-controversial-passages
There are denominations adhering to Calvinism, Arminianism, and parts of each creating a spectrum of different views of these issues.
Calvinism Armenianism debate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Calvinist–Arminian_debate
Biblical Defense of Calvinism
https://www.fivesolas.com/tulipscriptures.htm
Biblical Defense of Arminianism
http://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/calvinism-versus-arminianism/biblical-defense-of-arminianism/
If that was true there wouldn't be so many gospel preaching denominations.
The early elders created the creed. They define what a Christian must believe. Everything outside of them is to agree to disagree. Anything contrary to them is heresy. Seeing all of the gospel preaching denominations means there is an abundance of disagreements!!
Where have you been living that you haven't seen these disagreements. Here is an example. I keep this file for people like you. Refute either side if you can!!
Quinquarticular Controversy
The diametrically opposed Calvinist and Armenian 5 points
Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints
Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace
For a deeper discussion of the differences go to these web sites,
https://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html
Arminianism vs Calvinism Controversial Passages
https://www.xenos.org/essays/calvinism-arminianism-controversial-passages
There are denominations adhering to Calvinism, Arminianism, and parts of each creating a spectrum of different views of these issues.
Calvinism Armenianism debate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Calvinist–Arminian_debate
Biblical Defense of Calvinism
https://www.fivesolas.com/tulipscriptures.htm
Biblical Defense of Arminianism
http://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/calvinism-versus-arminianism/biblical-defense-of-arminianism/
The son of man, Jesus in respect to his corrupted flesh did not say; "it as that seen was good". Rather he gave glory to the unseen father that worked in him .and said His flesh profits for nothing, nada zip . It the Spirit of holiness that alone can give Spirit life. Flesh gives birth to temporal flesh. No such thing as holiness of flesh .That's a Catholic idea (philosophy of men) or one of corrupted Judaism
.They must walk by sight after what the eyes see the temporal as if the kingdom did come by observing what the eyes see. . They are said to have "no faith" none, not little.
For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.Job 9:32-33
God is not served by the corrupted hands (will) of man .He who satisfies all needs as our Potter does not need anything from the clay He forms Christ in .
God is not an man as us and neither is there any fleshly mediator as a infallible umpire (daysman) between God not seen and man seen .
Jesus refused to stand in the holy unseen place of the father. We do not know Christ after the rudiments of this world. not one atom or molecue. Can't find God o in a microscope he has no DNA .As the Faithful Creator of DNA.
He has given us specific prescription (20/20) below by which we could understand the eternal not seen .If we do not apply the prescriptions things can get very fuzzy. No spiritual understanding hid form those who believe not (no faith)
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Some did know Christ after the flesh like faithless Thomas used as a example of unbelief ,like the foolish Galatians. .
But when Christ left he clearly informed us we know him that way never again forever more .The one time demonstration of the lamb of God who was slain as the substance of faith from before the foundation of the world. God remains God without mother and father without beginning of Spirit life or end thereof.
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him "no more". 2 Corinthians 5:16
Ask one self. How long is henceforth, no more? The end? The one time demonstration is over? The veil is rent?
Denomination are part of God's design .
We hear what He says to the churches or denominations. God typified as Abraham is the father of a multitude of nations that can be call denominations or sects parts that make up the whole loaf of our daily bread
The early elders created the "creed" because they refused to walk by faith in respect to a King not seen. This was because of their jealousy of other surrounded Pagan nations . It pricked their pride awakening it looking for the wrong kind of comfort (as what the eyes see), They demanded God give them King as their own creed (oral tradition ) . God gave them over temporally to do what they should not. When the time of reformation had come indicated by the words: it is finished, the veil was rent
Today we walk by faith just as before when God as King of kings gave the elders over to perform their own creed .
Creeds never become law as a source of Christ's faithfulness .
And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment. "Then all the elders of Israel" gathered themselves together, (not called by God) and came to Samuel unto Ramah, And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.(jealousy the motivator) But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.I Samuel 8 : 3-7
We hear what He says to the churches or denominations. God typified as Abraham is the father of a multitude of nations that can be call denominations or sects parts that make up the whole loaf of our daily bread
The early elders created the "creed" because they refused to walk by faith in respect to a King not seen. This was because of their jealousy of other surrounded Pagan nations . It pricked their pride awakening it looking for the wrong kind of comfort (as what the eyes see), They demanded God give them King as their own creed (oral tradition ) . God gave them over temporally to do what they should not. When the time of reformation had come indicated by the words: it is finished, the veil was rent
Today we walk by faith just as before when God as King of kings gave the elders over to perform their own creed .
Creeds never become law as a source of Christ's faithfulness .
And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment. "Then all the elders of Israel" gathered themselves together, (not called by God) and came to Samuel unto Ramah, And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.(jealousy the motivator) But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.I Samuel 8 : 3-7
Thomas said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed"
(John 20:28-29)
it isn't actually written that Thomas put his fingers in His hand or His side - but it is written, that Thomas saw, that Thomas called Him God, and that Thomas believed. when Thomas calls Him his Lord and his God, Jesus calls this, belief.
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I think theres a lot more to this passage then what you quoted here, but if you want to make the case that Jesus comes from God and is divine then yes. JEsus also said blessed are those who have not seen yet believed which is part of the verse you havent quoted.
He would be talking to those of us who havent seen Him in the flesh.
I mean I personally havent seen Jesus (except in a vision) yet I hear from Him and also talk to my Father. The thing is, Jewish people may believe in God, but if they dont recognise his Son they dont know Him as their Father.
It is about the relationship our Father has with his Son. And with us.
All messiahs and false christs can say they are sent by God or are God. But only Jesus was His begotten son. Because of the miracle birth and signs following including the resurrection.
He would be talking to those of us who havent seen Him in the flesh.
I mean I personally havent seen Jesus (except in a vision) yet I hear from Him and also talk to my Father. The thing is, Jewish people may believe in God, but if they dont recognise his Son they dont know Him as their Father.
It is about the relationship our Father has with his Son. And with us.
All messiahs and false christs can say they are sent by God or are God. But only Jesus was His begotten son. Because of the miracle birth and signs following including the resurrection.
ROFL
You have a messed up version of history. The creeds were created to define what a Christian must believe. Anything outside of it is to agree to disagree. Anything contrary to it is heresy!! As being what a Christian must believe they were used to evangelize people. Keep in mind that Bibles were very expensive and rare. Hand copied by scribes. Too many people like you ignore that this was the case before the printing press. Creeds were easily memorized. Thus a standard of Christian belief easily used to proclaim the gospel!
You have a messed up version of history. The creeds were created to define what a Christian must believe. Anything outside of it is to agree to disagree. Anything contrary to it is heresy!! As being what a Christian must believe they were used to evangelize people. Keep in mind that Bibles were very expensive and rare. Hand copied by scribes. Too many people like you ignore that this was the case before the printing press. Creeds were easily memorized. Thus a standard of Christian belief easily used to proclaim the gospel!
He is more than a man. That is why He is called Lord, and why every knee will bow to Him
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
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