CESSATIONISM AND HEALING

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CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#501
May 23, 2012
13,003
4,315
113
#501
Sudakar said:
Pride is denying the atonement for healing and trusting in mediators like medical doctors and prayers of elders.
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wrong that is your opinion, Jesus said those who are sick need a doctor. I can thank God for the wisdom he gave to a doctor to help me just as I can ask God to heal me. Are saying God has to do it without using a man or woman?

That is foolishness. I have personally received physical healing BY God without a doctor AND God has used doctors too.

i WILL play your game for a bit and ask you, how many people have you prayed for that God did not heal? And why?
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#502
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#502
Sudakar said:
Your eyes are hidden by God to see the truth and believe. You deny the word of Christ in both Mark9:23 & Luke 21:36.

You think sufferings is godliness. But God is pleased by faith or else He would've created Adam/Eve with sufferings.

Your userid suggests you live in heresy.
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I suggest you begin reading Hebrews...thereś much tied to sufferings and the TRUTH that we will suffer....
 
BibleloverBill

BibleloverBill

Watchman
#503
Oct 24, 2018
473
87
28
#503
I believe that God heals today, because He has healed me many times. Also, a few were healed instantly after I prayed for them as they requested. But I believe also that God has not and does not heal many true Christians of serious physical challenges because He knows that their divine peace and divine joy and even humor will be good testimonies to others. They are living in the Kingdom of God and are good prayer warriors. Romans 14:17 "for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." And beware of new vaccinations.
 
G

garee

Banned
#504
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#504
miknik5 said:
I suggest you begin reading Hebrews...thereś much tied to sufferings and the TRUTH that we will suffer....
Click to expand...


Amen I would also suggest. If we do not suffer with him he will have no part with us. The parable. Washing of the feet symbolizes the unseen power of the gospel

John 13:8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me

Those who are yoked with him are given the understanding it is Him working with us sufferings with us to make the tribulation lighter. He is our Emmanuel our confidence to the end.

Not God is us.

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#505
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#505
garee said:
Amen I would also suggest. If we do not suffer with him he will have no part with us. The parable. Washing of the feet symbolizes the unseen power of the gospel

John 13:8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me

Those who are yoked with him are given the understanding it is Him working with us sufferings with us to make the tribulation lighter. He is our Emmanuel our confidence to the end.

Not God is us.

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Click to expand...
garee,

Itś actually if HE does not wash us, we have no part with HIM...

I think you might have meant, take up your cross and follow me when you said, if we do not suffer with HIM we have no part with HIM...but the actual verse for what you said is: if HE does not wash us., we have no part with HIM..not if we do not suffer with HIM...
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#506
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#506
miknik5 said:
I actually thought you said it because that is how the post came through...I had so much trouble with a number of posts in this thread where the quote was tied to the wrong person and I simply gave up...

I certainly do NOT support anyone telling another to do something that is not good...
And why then would you come back and entertain this instead of just letting your yes be yes and your no be no..

Instead you point to Peter walking on the water, as if this comment was ok.

It isn´t and we are NOT to tempt GOD at all and were told as much in Matthew 4
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Peter desired to walk on the water and walked by faith. Then he sunk because he stopped believing and doubted. Everything is possible for him who believes in Christ's atonement according to Mark9:23. Repent.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#507
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#507
miknik5 said:
I do not believe that, sir...I believe we ALL know that GOD can heal...however, we are reminded to pray and then wash our face and get up...
HE knows already what is in our hearts and prayers sir...HE doesn´t need many words...the man whose child is sick will cry out to him, but then, by faith, he gets up and trusts that GOD will bring to pass what HE will bring to pass.
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You wrote: "trusts that GOD will bring to pass what HE will bring to pass".

Reply: Now, faith is tested. But eventually it is His will to bring to pass the needed healing which has been promised in the atonement according to Isaiah 53:4. That is true faith.

God never changes His will.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#508
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
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#508
miknik5 said:
Are you in agreement then with Wolfwint´s first comment sir? Because, there are many ignorant listening in who might think that it is okay to take chances in things that they SHOULD NEVER take chances in.

When wolfwint suggested something to you, you sounded offended, yet you counter by pointing to Mark 9:23 and Peter walking on water?

So what is your stance now sir.
I thought you understood that we DO NOT TEMPT GOD.

Yet, now, with your pointing to Mark 9:23 and Peter walking on water, I am not so sure.

Please be clear in your response.

Please let your yes be yes and your no be no.
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wolfwint tempted God by asking me to fly like a bird. Why? Because he doesn't believe healing is possible through faith in Christ's atonement for all who believe.

Wolfwint is equating healing for all who believe, to flying like a bird. He denies the applicability of atonement for all believers.

But Jesus said everything is possible for one who believes according to Mark 9:23 which means all who believe can be healed.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#509
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#509
CS1 said:
wrong that is your opinion, Jesus said those who are sick need a doctor. I can thank God for the wisdom he gave to a doctor to help me just as I can ask God to heal me. Are saying God has to do it without using a man or woman?

That is foolishness. I have personally received physical healing BY God without a doctor AND God has used doctors too.

i WILL play your game for a bit and ask you, how many people have you prayed for that God did not heal? And why?
Click to expand...
Mathew 9:12: "When Jesus heard it, he said to them, "Those who are healthy have no need for a physician, but those who are sick do".

Jesus said the above as an analogy to prove sinners need Him. He didn't say the sick need the doctor to heal apart from faith in Christ's atonement which includes healing.

You are foolishly wanting to deny healing through faith in atonement and establish the medical doctor as the mediator/Messiah for bringing healing from God. Don't post bankrupt ideas.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#510
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#510
garee said:
Amen I would also suggest. If we do not suffer with him he will have no part with us. The parable. Washing of the feet symbolizes the unseen power of the gospel

John 13:8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me

Those who are yoked with him are given the understanding it is Him working with us sufferings with us to make the tribulation lighter. He is our Emmanuel our confidence to the end.

Not God is us.

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. Read the follows:
Luke 21:36: "Therefore be watchful all the time, asking that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man."

It is God's will to ESCAPE TERRIBLE persecutions including death listed in the chapter.

If you want to suffer and die, go ahead but don't spread a lie it's never God's will to protect from persecutions.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#511
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#511
CS1 said:
wrong that is your opinion, Jesus said those who are sick need a doctor. I can thank God for the wisdom he gave to a doctor to help me just as I can ask God to heal me. Are saying God has to do it without using a man or woman?

That is foolishness. I have personally received physical healing BY God without a doctor AND God has used doctors too.

i WILL play your game for a bit and ask you, how many people have you prayed for that God did not heal? And why?
Click to expand...
Don't foolishly crave to pray for all sick people. If they are unbelievers, pray for their healing as they yet have no faith in Christ.

When it comes to new convert believers, before praying, teach them healing through faith in Christ's atonement.

If a person knows about healing through faith in Christ's atonement and yet comes to you for prayer, kick him out telling him to believe rather than suck milk like a baby.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#512
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#512
BibleloverBill said:
I believe that God heals today, because He has healed me many times. Also, a few were healed instantly after I prayed for them as they requested. But I believe also that God has not and does not heal many true Christians of serious physical challenges because He knows that their divine peace and divine joy and even humor will be good testimonies to others. They are living in the Kingdom of God and are good prayer warriors. Romans 14:17 "for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." And beware of new vaccinations.
Click to expand...
The issue isn't healing but whether Christ's atonement includes healing for all who believe including those having serious physical challenges.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#513
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#513
miknik5 said:
I suggest you begin reading Hebrews...thereś much tied to sufferings and the TRUTH that we will suffer....
Click to expand...
Some of the people of God listed in Hebrews 11 received blessings and some chose to suffer expecting to be blessed at the resurrection. But both the blessings and sufferings were received through faith in the truth that God blesses those who seek Him (Hebrews 11:6). Both groups never denied this faith.

Similarly, faith in Christ's atonement fulfils the desires like either be healed or remain sick expecting healing after resurrection. But if either of the desire is fulfilled apart from faith in Christ's atonement to heal, God is not pleased.

Many use Hebrews 11 to justify suffering but don't see the blessings that were also received by faith. Moreover they deny faith through which people are blessed as they don't see the blessings that were received through faith in Hebrews 11. Why? It is because they wrongly think sufferings please God. But it is faith which pleases God. They don't realise if God was pleased by sufferings, He would have created Adam/Eve with sufferings!
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#514
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#514
CS1 said:
wrong that is your opinion, Jesus said those who are sick need a doctor. I can thank God for the wisdom he gave to a doctor to help me just as I can ask God to heal me. Are saying God has to do it without using a man or woman?

That is foolishness. I have personally received physical healing BY God without a doctor AND God has used doctors too.

i WILL play your game for a bit and ask you, how many people have you prayed for that God did not heal? And why?
Click to expand...
Millions have died at the hands of medical doctors. Some christians say God uses doctors to heal. When God created Adam/Eve, He didn't have the need to create doctors as there were no sicknesses. Sicknesses came only after they started to have the knowledge of good and evil.

Most countries have no medical insurance. In such countries, medical expenses are unbearable. So rather than teach christians to desire to visit doctors, teach them healing through faith in Christ's atonement. God never fails in His promise to heal through Christ's atonement.
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#515
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#515
Sudakar said:
Peter desired to walk on the water and walked by faith. Then he sunk because he stopped believing and doubted. Everything is possible for him who believes in Christ's atonement according to Mark9:23. Repent.
Click to expand...
This has nothing to do with my post sir. or with what was being discussed. .
Sudakar said:
Some of the people of God listed in Hebrews 11 received blessings and some chose to suffer expecting to be blessed at the resurrection. But both the blessings and sufferings were received through faith in the truth that God blesses those who seek Him (Hebrews 11:6). Both groups never denied this faith.

Similarly, faith in Christ's atonement fulfils the desires like either be healed or remain sick expecting healing after resurrection. But if either of the desire is fulfilled apart from faith in Christ's atonement to heal, God is not pleased.

Many use Hebrews 11 to justify suffering but don't see the blessings that were also received by faith. Moreover they deny faith through which people are blessed as they don't see the blessings that were received through faith in Hebrews 11. Why? It is because they wrongly think sufferings please God. But it is faith which pleases God. They don't realise if God was pleased by sufferings, He would have created Adam/Eve with sufferings!
Click to expand...
This has nothing to do with my post sir. Or what was being discussed.
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#516
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#516
Sudakar said:
Millions have died at the hands of medical doctors. Some christians say God uses doctors to heal. When God created Adam/Eve, He didn't have the need to create doctors as there were no sicknesses. Sicknesses came only after they started to have the knowledge of good and evil.

Most countries have no medical insurance. In such countries, medical expenses are unbearable. So rather than teach christians to desire to visit doctors, teach them healing through faith in Christ's atonement. God never fails in His promise to heal through Christ's atonement.
Click to expand...
You are free to go and do that work, sir....Please do not lay the work on others. If you want to teach these countries, feel free sir to do this since it has been laid in your heart to do so...
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#517
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#517
Sudakar said:
Don't foolishly crave to pray for all sick people. If they are unbelievers, pray for their healing as they yet have no faith in Christ.

When it comes to new convert believers, before praying, teach them healing through faith in Christ's atonement.

If a person knows about healing through faith in Christ's atonement and yet comes to you for prayer, kick him out telling him to believe rather than suck milk like a baby.
Click to expand...
On second thought, I understand why you are asking others to do this work.
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#518
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#518
Sudakar said:
Your eyes are hidden by God to see the truth and believe. You deny the word of Christ in both Mark9:23 & Luke 21:36.

You think sufferings is godliness. But God is pleased by faith or else He would've created Adam/Eve with sufferings.

Your userid suggests you live in heresy.
Click to expand...
miknik5 said:
I suggest you begin reading Hebrews...thereś much tied to sufferings and the TRUTH that we will suffer....
Click to expand...

I suggest you tie these two posts together and go back and read Hebrews with regards to suffering.

I wasn´t talking about Hebrews 11
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#519
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#519
miknik5 said:
This has nothing to do with my post sir. or with what was being discussed. .

This has nothing to do with my post sir. Or what was being discussed.
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Be on topic. Don't digress!
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#520
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#520
miknik5 said:
I suggest you tie these two posts together and go back and read Hebrews with regards to suffering.

I wasn´t talking about Hebrews 11
Click to expand...
Do not beg the question. Read my post again which gives a sound thrashing to your erroneous speculations!!
 
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