CESSATIONISM AND HEALING
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It seems you are saying signs prove but those who have faith need no signs. This would seem to mean we must obey the first sign rather than the prophecy that spoke of the one event the outward demonstration.
Signs are for those who rebel (no faith) Prophecy the tongue of God for those who beleive as the faith of Christ works in them to make the miracle possible of hearing God .
The disciples had no faith(none zip nada). as we all start . none( not little) this is before their new birth and after as a golden measure learning curve. . It is always little faith in a hope Christ in us will increase. He alone can cause growth if any.
Signs are for those who rebel (no faith) Prophecy the tongue of God for those who beleive as the faith of Christ works in them to make the miracle possible of hearing God .
The disciples had no faith(none zip nada). as we all start . none( not little) this is before their new birth and after as a golden measure learning curve. . It is always little faith in a hope Christ in us will increase. He alone can cause growth if any.
One of the major problems I think. Talking about unseen things of God, things of faith, he must define.
I believe the bible describes it (hell) by reason of suffering. The wage of sin. The living out of the wage in a body of death suffering as a result of the letter of the law. The wrath of God being revealed to the whole world, a dying corrupted creation.
To some God applies his mercy and grace like that of Abel the first recorded martyr. He was sent with the gospel as a apostle. You could say the second born spiritual seed. Redeeming the first born of the flesh, the fleshly seeds .
The foundation for seeking out the first born doctrine it reveals the gospel purpose. like all parables. Many new foundation set up in the opposing of Genesis which would include the doctrine of hell.
Faithless mankind 666 represented by the "mark of Cain" (antichrists) a restless wanderer. No rest coming from the gospel as Abel did have. Cain was moved by the father of lies. A murder from the beginning (first one with Abel) plowing that idea down under. Abel's blood from the field of blood still cries to be clothed with the new body of the bride, the righteousness of her husband
Take your last breath and the sufferings is over. No limbo no purgatory. It is called "salvation". Not will be. saved . But as sons of God what we are new creatures given a new heart . Christ in us working with us to make our sufferings lighter .Having a future living hope as the confidence he will finish the good work in us.
I believe the bible describes it (hell) by reason of suffering. The wage of sin. The living out of the wage in a body of death suffering as a result of the letter of the law. The wrath of God being revealed to the whole world, a dying corrupted creation.
To some God applies his mercy and grace like that of Abel the first recorded martyr. He was sent with the gospel as a apostle. You could say the second born spiritual seed. Redeeming the first born of the flesh, the fleshly seeds .
The foundation for seeking out the first born doctrine it reveals the gospel purpose. like all parables. Many new foundation set up in the opposing of Genesis which would include the doctrine of hell.
Faithless mankind 666 represented by the "mark of Cain" (antichrists) a restless wanderer. No rest coming from the gospel as Abel did have. Cain was moved by the father of lies. A murder from the beginning (first one with Abel) plowing that idea down under. Abel's blood from the field of blood still cries to be clothed with the new body of the bride, the righteousness of her husband
Take your last breath and the sufferings is over. No limbo no purgatory. It is called "salvation". Not will be. saved . But as sons of God what we are new creatures given a new heart . Christ in us working with us to make our sufferings lighter .Having a future living hope as the confidence he will finish the good work in us.
Yes demote the idea of sign gifts.(lying fill me up wonderments called the fruit of the spirits ) . Question is which manner of spirt if we desire to hear what God says to the churches .I would think those given ears according to his understanding .*(sola scriptura)
Promote spiritual gifts not seen yes. That is made possible by the faith of Christ that comes from hearing God's tongue as prophecy .
But the idea of gift as that in which the literal eyes see or ears hear? No, never.
Signs are for those who rebel against prophecy. Prophecy the one source of a faith that comes from hearing God for those who come under (sola scriptura) and therefore do not fall backward in judgment . . slain of the Spirit to show their mockery .
The words sign as to what the eyes see and gift are not found working together in that way . There are signs as metaphors used in parables that speak of the finished work of Christ the hearing of the faith or the understanding that God gives us through as it is written .No oral traditions of men that fall backward mocking God's tradition (sola scriptura)
Sign as oral traditions of men simply make prophecy without effect, No man can serve two teaching masters .One not seen and another those who in self edification make it seen . Like the faithless Jews used to represent the whole of faithless mankind.
1 Corinthians 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
Wisdom philosophies of men rather than the law of God. (law of life or freedom to serve God)
One says .Show me God after the rudiments of this world.(lust of the eye) and the other show me God by my great imagination of a faithless human heart soul and mind. (false pride) Skies the limit . Just beleive oneself and violate the first commandment.
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
They received the sign. .Jesus is no circus seal side show where men fall backward slain in the wonderment of the spirit dead in their trespasses and sin.
The unbelieving Jew made the ceremonial laws as sign to the whole world all about their own flesh. . a self edifying tool that built false pride. It was not a sign unto themselves to the world that they were God's people. Rather than walking by faith. The ceremonial sign to the world was we are a dying race and God seeks after a eternal bride. Sending the gospel as the wedding invitation.
God's people edify Christ who indwells them. Glorying in ones own flesh never profited for anything .Even Jesus said of His own it profits for nothing zero. .
Promote spiritual gifts not seen yes. That is made possible by the faith of Christ that comes from hearing God's tongue as prophecy .
But the idea of gift as that in which the literal eyes see or ears hear? No, never.
Signs are for those who rebel against prophecy. Prophecy the one source of a faith that comes from hearing God for those who come under (sola scriptura) and therefore do not fall backward in judgment . . slain of the Spirit to show their mockery .
The words sign as to what the eyes see and gift are not found working together in that way . There are signs as metaphors used in parables that speak of the finished work of Christ the hearing of the faith or the understanding that God gives us through as it is written .No oral traditions of men that fall backward mocking God's tradition (sola scriptura)
Sign as oral traditions of men simply make prophecy without effect, No man can serve two teaching masters .One not seen and another those who in self edification make it seen . Like the faithless Jews used to represent the whole of faithless mankind.
1 Corinthians 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
Wisdom philosophies of men rather than the law of God. (law of life or freedom to serve God)
One says .Show me God after the rudiments of this world.(lust of the eye) and the other show me God by my great imagination of a faithless human heart soul and mind. (false pride) Skies the limit . Just beleive oneself and violate the first commandment.
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
They received the sign. .Jesus is no circus seal side show where men fall backward slain in the wonderment of the spirit dead in their trespasses and sin.
The unbelieving Jew made the ceremonial laws as sign to the whole world all about their own flesh. . a self edifying tool that built false pride. It was not a sign unto themselves to the world that they were God's people. Rather than walking by faith. The ceremonial sign to the world was we are a dying race and God seeks after a eternal bride. Sending the gospel as the wedding invitation.
God's people edify Christ who indwells them. Glorying in ones own flesh never profited for anything .Even Jesus said of His own it profits for nothing zero. .
Mountains are kingdoms, sects, tribes, families. Temporal sickness has no boundaries. High or low. Kingdoms of the valley or kingdoms of the mountain will become his in the new order.
Temporal healing is not the goal of the gospel . All die not receiving that promise. The fig leaf represents the temporal healing of the nations. Not the unseen fruit Christ.
Temporal healing is not the goal of the gospel . All die not receiving that promise. The fig leaf represents the temporal healing of the nations. Not the unseen fruit Christ.
I suspect that very few cessationalists would claim that God doesn't heal today.
Their real issues is with healing being associated with a particular person who has the "gift of healing". Additionally, they have issues with "miraculous sign gifts".
Generally, they don't claim that God doesn't heal people today, based on personal, corporate, and leadership prayer and God's sovereign will.
Additionally, they tend to focus on God's will for the individual's life, and his sovereign purposes for them. They do not believe there is a guarantee of healing on this side of glorification, and that God works his sovereign will through suffering in the life of the believer.
There would also be a great degree of skepticism for the claims of charismatics.
I would share these concerns although I wouldn't call myself a "cessationist". I simply question the understanding and claims of the vast majority of charismatics.
And, I consider a large number of the visible ones to be heretics who hold false doctrines. For instance, Bill Johnson claims that there is no place for a theology of suffering within the Church, and declares those who think otherwise to be preaching a false gospel. I could list any number of others that are heretical.
Their real issues is with healing being associated with a particular person who has the "gift of healing". Additionally, they have issues with "miraculous sign gifts".
Generally, they don't claim that God doesn't heal people today, based on personal, corporate, and leadership prayer and God's sovereign will.
Additionally, they tend to focus on God's will for the individual's life, and his sovereign purposes for them. They do not believe there is a guarantee of healing on this side of glorification, and that God works his sovereign will through suffering in the life of the believer.
There would also be a great degree of skepticism for the claims of charismatics.
I would share these concerns although I wouldn't call myself a "cessationist". I simply question the understanding and claims of the vast majority of charismatics.
And, I consider a large number of the visible ones to be heretics who hold false doctrines. For instance, Bill Johnson claims that there is no place for a theology of suffering within the Church, and declares those who think otherwise to be preaching a false gospel. I could list any number of others that are heretical.
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The woman had faith in CHRIST that HE could heal her...before she reached out and touched HIS garment, she had not yet been identified BY HIM as a daughter of Abraham, sir...
She was sick both spiritually and physically...but...when HE healed her, when she knew that she had been made whole, she was frightened...the sign had been effective in accomplishing TWO PURPOSES sir...and more importantly THE FIRST healing...SPIRITUAL...and then physical....
She was sick both spiritually and physically...but...when HE healed her, when she knew that she had been made whole, she was frightened...the sign had been effective in accomplishing TWO PURPOSES sir...and more importantly THE FIRST healing...SPIRITUAL...and then physical....
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