Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[notuptome]

Which is a subtle way of the other claim made by fundies - if you disagree with me, it's because you aren't saved. I don't need facts or logic, you are wrong and I am right because I have the spirit!

That argument is quite sad and narcissistic. It makes the person God Himself. You do not speak for God. Therefore your opinions are not God's. God leads us all, but you cannot tell another person that they are wrong because God is telling you all things.

God has spoken to all men through Christ and it is recorded in Gods word the bible. If you would accept the bible as the authority and not the "church" you would not place yourself in such a perilous position.

And that statement shows that you do not understand Catholicism. You only understand Catholicism as the parody that anti-Catholics make it out to be.

I understand it just fine. I have been dealing with it for 40 years. Catholics are just that catholics. They profess to be catholic before they consider themselves Christian. They are not Christian by biblical standards. Catholics are religious and superstitious but as you so proudly demonstrate they reject the concept of born again in Christ. The church does not save you.

You gladly accept the authority of church traditions and dogma but soundly reject biblical authority. Purgatory is eternal.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Last]

Matthew 5:37
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Maybe next time when a true fact is being said about your church, you will chose honesty and simplicity over guile.

1) None of that was factual or even coherent
2) Do you not see the hypocrisy for you post?

 

[Last]

ThomistColin, what on earth are you talking about? Where did I even mentioned "faith alone"?

You and Last have both something in common: dishonesty and avoidance of what is actually being said.

Where have I been dishonest or avoiding something? Citation.

Generally people that throw around accusations instead of actually address the content of the post are the ones being dishonest and avoiding.

 

[Last]

Few posts above you said "That is NOT the Catholic position. That's the position of Calvin that plagues protestantism. Please do not presume to speak on what we believe."

Now, all of a sudden, you remembered that, in fact, that was the catholic position until the XIX century (!!!) as it can clearly be seen in your books of catechism.

As you have already done several times now, you are combining two different things. I am starting to think it is a deliberate tactic at this point.

 

[Simona25]

As you have already done several times now, you are combining two different things. I am starting to think it is a deliberate tactic at this point.

I always talked about one and only thing: the catholic 'theory of satisfaction' formulated by Anselm.

 

[Last]

God has spoken to all men through Christ and it is recorded in Gods word the bible. If you would accept the bible as the authority and not the "church" you would not place yourself in such a perilous position.

The bible is not an authority for anyone. For something to be an authority, it must be able to act, which it does not. The bible is a standard which is physically inactive and it is the human mind that is the authority. If you ask the bible a question, it does not answer. It is a human being that would answer a question based on their understanding of scripture.

When people go on about the bible as an authority they are speaking nonsense. What they are wanting to avoid is saying that they individually are the authority which is based on their understanding of the bible. That's the reality. If the bible were an authority, then everyone who considered the bible an authority would have the same views on all things. But they don't, because the bible isn't an authority.

You are the one in a perilous position as you have made yourself the authority. M

I understand it just fine. I have been dealing with it for 40 years. Catholics are just that catholics. They profess to be catholic before they consider themselves Christian.

Catholics in the United States generally would respond that they are Catholic when asked if they are Christian. That's because in this culture saying that you are a Christian has the implication of being protestant. Other groups do that as well.

They are not Christian by biblical standards. Catholics are religious and superstitious

And you are basing this on what?

but as you so proudly demonstrate they reject the concept of born again in Christ. The church does not save you.

By not understanding what I said, you continue to prove the point I was making
over
and over
and over again

I am born again. The bible says born again. However, if a group take the term "born again" from the bible and creates a new term "born again Christian" - then they can lump all kinds of bogus theology into it and convince people they must be 'born again Christians' because 'born again' is in the bible. Born again is in the bible, sinners prayers and altar calls are not!
I could explain this to you all day but I don't think you'll get it. You are the target audience for when evangelicals were cooking all that stuff up 50 years ago.

You gladly accept the authority of church traditions and dogma but soundly reject biblical authority. Purgatory is eternal.

The bible is not an authority, I have already proven this. An authority must be able to act. The constitution is not an authority asit cannot act. The authority is the one that acts. Just as law is interpreted by judges who exercise and hold authority, so the bible is interpreted by the individual. You are the authority, not the bible. You can no more ask the bible a question on morality than ask the constitution what to do.

 

[TheClimaxWarrior]

We try to welcome everyone to our site including people who grow up with Catholic tradition because of course we want to lead people to the truth.

But sometimes it's perceived that we tolerate error and heresy. Please understand first of all that we don't screen every thread and post in this forum. YOU can help with that. If there's something that you really think we should deal with, then use the Report button (there's a Report button on every post). But please understand that there will be some error and we don't remove all error or even all heresy from the site, partly because it's an opportunity for Christians to correct it and respond with the word of God. But if there's too much of it or too much from one person then we do some housecleaning. We certainly don't want our site to be dominated by Catholic heresy or whatever heresy or error, and we don't want people to get the impression that we just tolerate all of that.

So for the record, Catholicism is heresy. That's what the admins of this site believe.

Mary WAS A SINNER.

She needed a savior, just like you and me.

She is NOT the "mother of God". God has no mother, because God is God. Yes Jesus is God, and Mary was his mother, but we have to understand the dual nature of Jesus. He was 100% God yes, and also 100% man. Mary was his mother as a man, not as God. No where does the scripture refer to Mary as the "mother of God". And in fact, she's not even mentioned in all the epistles. All the New Testament instruction to the church is all about Jesus, not Mary. They never said "hail Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners". They always said JESUS .. JESUS... JESUS.

This is preaching to the choir for most people here. But it regularly happens that we start to accumulate Catholics here who really promote and argue their Catholicism, along with all the heresy.

So for the record, if anyone wants or needs to hear it, we don't agree with Catholic heresy. And yes it is heresy to exalt any other human being as sinless to the same level as Jesus (as the Catholics do with Mary -- they actually teach that Mary was sinless like Jesus!!!), and put equal focus on a person other than Jesus.

At the same time, we understand that no one is born a Christian. That's why Jesus said you must be born again. So we welcome all who are seeking -- Catholics, Muslims, homosexuals, and even protestants who are "Christian" only by tradition -- to experience our fellowship here on this site and learn the truth that Jesus is the way and the truth and the life and no one can come to the father except through Him. And there is only one God, and one mediator between God, the man Christ Jesus. Because he was both 100% man and 100% God, that makes him the perfect mediator between man and God. That's why the scripture also tells us to go straight to Jesus -- go to the throne of grace with confidence, knowing that he can understand our weaknesses and everything, since he lived as a man like us (and even experienced all temptation). Hence we don't need Mary to go to or go through -- that defeats the purpose of Jesus.

I saw my mother-in-law die before my eyes putting her faith in Mary. Days before she died I asked her if Mary can save her and she actually said yes. Then in her dying moments, my father-in-law pushed me in front of her to pray for her as she was dying before our eyes. I simply prayed out loud in front of everyone that she would put her faith in Jesus, and ONLY JESUS. There was protesting in the background "wala na Maria? wala na Maria?", which is Filipino language for "No Mary?? No Marry??". You see how deceived they all are. It is sad. You see how the devil uses that poison to add something to Jesus.

So I hope it's clear what we believe and we hope that we can promote the truth here in love.

I love this a lot RoboOp. It's a blessing to know I am at the right place for my personal Christian walk with JESUS, as it's such a hard and arduous road.

May I also point out. Before Jesus became the ultimate passover lamb, it's satisfying to know now the Tabernacle of the Lord is placed into our hearts. The whole point of GOD dwelling in His Temple was to reach GOD in His dimension where His Kingdom come. Once GOD smelled the incense of the burnt offering He would dwell within the Temple from His Kingdom. That in itself is mind blowing. It's kinda like a Marvel/DC comic. A GOD who lives in a parallel universe other than our own.

Now, we all can look at the cross and see that His work is done and that His Temple now resides in us all for He ripped the vail in two. He is amazing for now we rest in Him day n night for every second of our lives.

 

[notuptome]

The bible is not an authority for anyone. For something to be an authority, it must be able to act, which it does not. The bible is a standard which is physically inactive and it is the human mind that is the authority. If you ask the bible a question, it does not answer. It is a human being that would answer a question based on their understanding of scripture.

Yet you would gladly receive the writings of the early popes as inspired and reliable.

When people go on about the bible as an authority they are speaking nonsense. What they are wanting to avoid is saying that they individually are the authority which is based on their understanding of the bible. That's the reality. If the bible were an authority, then everyone who considered the bible an authority would have the same views on all things. But they don't, because the bible isn't an authority.

Jesus considered it to be the word of God which makes it the Authority. Living and Eternal Word of God.

You are the one in a perilous position as you have made yourself the authority. M

I love it when catholics threaten me with divine retribution. If the bible is wrong then then I am of all men most pitiable but if the bible is right then you are estranged from God.

Catholics in the United States generally would respond that they are Catholic when asked if they are Christian. That's because in this culture saying that you are a Christian has the implication of being protestant. Other groups do that as well.

You bet the Jews will never say they are Christians even though we both believe in Jehovah God. Catholics have been defending the unknowing laity from any biblical knowledge for generations. At one time all the masses were said in Latin. Virtually no one in the in the congregation could understand a single word of it.

And you are basing this on what?

A biblical definition of Christian.

By not understanding what I said, you continue to prove the point I was making
over
and over
and over again

I am born again. The bible says born again. However, if a group take the term "born again" from the bible and creates a new term "born again Christian" - then they can lump all kinds of bogus theology into it and convince people they must be 'born again Christians' because 'born again' is in the bible. Born again is in the bible, sinners prayers and altar calls are not!
I could explain this to you all day but I don't think you'll get it. You are the target audience for when evangelicals were cooking all that stuff up 50 years ago.

If the target audience is sinners in need of salvation then you bet. I never consider what God has said in His word to be bogus.

The bible is not an authority, I have already proven this. An authority must be able to act. The constitution is not an authority asit cannot act. The authority is the one that acts. Just as law is interpreted by judges who exercise and hold authority, so the bible is interpreted by the individual. You are the authority, not the bible. You can no more ask the bible a question on morality than ask the constitution what to do.

All you have proven is that you do not accept the bible as Gods word. That makes you by any biblical definition lost to God. Jesus affirmed the OT and wrote the NT in His blood. Jesus said that Gods word would never pass away even though heaven and earth pass away. The bricks and stones you worship will melt with the fervent heat when the Lord remakes the entire world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[GaryA]

The bible is not an authority for anyone. For something to be an authority, it must be able to act, which it does not. The bible is a standard which is physically inactive and it is the human mind that is the authority. If you ask the bible a question, it does not answer. It is a human being that would answer a question based on their understanding of scripture.

The Bible is not just a 'standard'. It is the message of God to man. The Word of God is the authority over all things in this universe, and is the most powerful active force in [ our physical ] existence. Read Hebrews 4:12.

The Bible answers your question even before you ask it. Only, you have to be willing to listen and able to perceive it and understand it.

When people go on about the bible as an authority they are speaking nonsense. What they are wanting to avoid is saying that they individually are the authority which is based on their understanding of the bible. That's the reality. If the bible were an authority, then everyone who considered the bible an authority would have the same views on all things. But they don't, because the bible isn't an authority.

The Word of God is the first, last, and final authority. This does not mean that everyone who recognizes it as an authority will interpret it the same way - this is a separate issue. The fact that two different people may not come to the same exact conclusion about something in the Bible does in no way take away from the 'authority' of the Bible.

You are the one in a perilous position as you have made yourself the authority. M

This statement seems to be in direct conflict with the previous paragraphs. First you say that [ he ] ( the human ) is the authority ( not the bible ) - and then - that, [ he ] is in error for making himself the authority...???

Catholics in the United States generally would respond that they are Catholic when asked if they are Christian. That's because in this culture saying that you are a Christian has the implication of being protestant. Other groups do that as well.

Saying that you are a Christian should only have the implication that you are a born-again follower of Christ.

I am born again. The bible says born again. However, if a group take the term "born again" from the bible and creates a new term "born again Christian" - then they can lump all kinds of bogus theology into it and convince people they must be 'born again Christians' because 'born again' is in the bible. Born again is in the bible, sinners prayers and altar calls are not!

If a person is born-again ( according to the biblical definition ), then they are a Christian ( a follower of Christ - notwithstanding how much or how little they follow Christ at any particular moment - I am speaking in terms of the person being 'born-again' of the Spirit ) - and hence, a 'born-again Christian'. If a person is a [ true ] Christian, then they are born-again. The two go together, and are inseparable. A person cannot be one without the other. If a person is not born-again, then they are not a [ true ] Christian.

Being born-again is the 'base-level defining characteristic' of a [ true ] Christian.

I believe that - for the most part - the phrase 'born-again Christian' is simply used to identify 'true' Christians apart from those who call themselves Christians yet are not born-again.

The bogus theology is a separate issue. I would tend to agree with you - in part - about the sinners prayers and [ especially ] alter calls --- I believe that they have in fact and indeed given [ millions? ] a "false-hope" of salvation...

I could explain this to you all day but I don't think you'll get it. You are the target audience for when evangelicals were cooking all that stuff up 50 years ago.

Yes - it is unfortunate ... some of the things that have been "cooked up" in the past; however, it does not take away from the truth of the scriptures regarding what it means to be born-again.

The bible is not an authority, I have already proven this. An authority must be able to act. The constitution is not an authority asit cannot act. The authority is the one that acts. Just as law is interpreted by judges who exercise and hold authority, so the bible is interpreted by the individual. You are the authority, not the bible. You can no more ask the bible a question on morality than ask the constitution what to do.

The Bible is an authority.

The Constitution ( of the U.S.A. ) is an authority - and, is in fact, the authority for the system of government in the U.S.A. ( officially - technically - the way it is supposed to be )

Judges interpret. They only exercise authority to interpret.

Other parts of government enforce. They only exercise authority to enforce.

And, all of these 'agents' in the "system" get their authority from that which is the [ true, originating ] authority - the Constitution itself.

The fact that the Constitution ( of the U.S.A. ) has been 'hijacked' -- and that there is so much abuse of the "system" -- does not take away from the [ true, originating ] authority of it.

The authority of the Bible rests in God Himself -- and is intended ( by God ) to be THE authority - by which we are to live...

The authority of the Bible transcends the physical realm into the spiritual realm.

( In reality, it originated in the spiritual realm - and, has "come down" into the physical realm. )

How can one be saved without accepting the authority of the scriptures?

Think about it...

 

[posthuman]

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

 

[didymos]

Memes are such fun...

 

[Last]

What is your point here? The pictures are strawmen.

 

[Shyness]

As far as what I believe about being born again, I cannot re-enter my mother's womb to be born a second time and the only other theory I see being born again is if I die and get reincarnated.

 

[Shyness]

I know the Linux operating system is born again because it has the BASH shell (Bourne Again Shell).

 

[didymos]

What is your point here? The pictures are strawmen.

Nope, the people IN those pictures are strawmen, of Satan that is.

 

[Last]

I don't think you know what 'strawman' means.

 

[didymos]

I don't think you know what 'strawman' means.

You calling me ignorant now? (lol)

'Full Definition of STRAW MAN

1: a weak or imaginary opposition (as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted
2: a person set up to serve as a cover for a usually questionable transaction'

Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/straw%20man

 

[Last]

Yes, and I was referring to 1. 2 does not apply.

 

[didymos]

Yes, and I was referring to 1. 2 does not apply.

And i was referring to 2. 1 Doesn't apply, capiche?

 

[Zmouth]

Can you prove your allegation against Mary?

As far as what I believe about being born again, I cannot re-enter my mother's womb to be born a second time and the only other theory I see being born again is if I die and get reincarnated.

\

God is a God of truth. The testimony of Jesus is to worship God in spirit and in truth.
And in such, in spirit all things are possible with God but in truth all things are not possible with God as represented in Hebrews 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Try this theory on for size,

It is a known truth the physical body of the human being is comprised of the three states of matter; Solid, Liquid, and Gas. And therefore, in would be required that a human body be formed by such as well.

It is written LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground right?, or at least according to GENESIS 2:7
And thus, it is written in Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. GENESIS 1:9

What is dry ground, it is matter and it is considered to be a Solid.

It is also written that the LORD God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. GENESIS 2:7

So breath, it is matter and it is considered to be a Gas.

Dew you see any Liquid? Since all three Faiths, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are founded upon Genesis as the foundational basis for any hope of life hereafter, if error is true then scriptures would be untrue and the promise of life anew [same you-new body] upon a new earth would be false? John 3:5-6

I cannot re-enter my mother's womb to be born a second time

Other than that theory the only one I got is find me new momma and try it till I get it right ...