Catholic Heresy (for the record)
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Have you ever looked into the Doctrines of the Catholic Church? Have you ever read what they believe in?
For one thing they do believe in and teach is that Mary was without sin. God clearly says in the Scriptures that all have sinned, even Mary.
The reason the Catholics insist Mary had to be without sin was to keep Jesus free from sin. See how the Catholics believe that God was powerless in keeping Jesus free from sin? The actually believe only Mary keep Jesus free from sin.
And yet you say that is only my opinion!
I feel sorry for you that you have been deceived by Satan to believe the Catholics are Christians. How can a Catholic be a True Christian when they follow and Worship Mary as their God?
I have many times seen Catholics on their knees in front of a Statue of Mary Praying to the Statue. I saw this all the time when i was growing up in the Catholic Church.
The Catholic Church also teaches we become Justified by our WORKS! Read the Scriptures and see where God clearly says we are Justified by our Faith, not Works!
For one thing they do believe in and teach is that Mary was without sin. God clearly says in the Scriptures that all have sinned, even Mary.
The reason the Catholics insist Mary had to be without sin was to keep Jesus free from sin. See how the Catholics believe that God was powerless in keeping Jesus free from sin? The actually believe only Mary keep Jesus free from sin.
And yet you say that is only my opinion!
I feel sorry for you that you have been deceived by Satan to believe the Catholics are Christians. How can a Catholic be a True Christian when they follow and Worship Mary as their God?
I have many times seen Catholics on their knees in front of a Statue of Mary Praying to the Statue. I saw this all the time when i was growing up in the Catholic Church.
The Catholic Church also teaches we become Justified by our WORKS! Read the Scriptures and see where God clearly says we are Justified by our Faith, not Works!
Romans 3:28
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
Romans 4:2-5
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness
Romans 5:1
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
Galatians 2:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP] knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
We are Justified by our Faith in Jesus, not by our WORKS like the Catholics teach.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
Romans 4:2-5
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness
Romans 5:1
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
Galatians 2:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP] knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
We are Justified by our Faith in Jesus, not by our WORKS like the Catholics teach.
All I can go by is my experience working and talking with Catholics about Our Lord and I believe these men to be born again Christians and for me their lives prove it. They don't just say it, they do it. Maybe these men are not your average Catholic but they have my trust they are brothers in Christ
K
KenAllen you are right by using these verse about justification, but we also must take them in proper context.
For there is a difference between "works of the law" and "works of the faith."
In order to make Romans 3:28, 4:2-5:1 and Galatians 2:16 speak on all works would make those two places contradict what is said in James 1:21-27, 2:14-26 which we know it can not.
For James 2:21-24 speaks about Abraham also and says that Abraham was justified by works with faith, and not faith alone. Therefore here in James the works being mention can not be that of the works of the law such as in Romans, but instead our works done by the faith.
People confuse following the teachings and commands of the Lord with that of the works of the law, but the works of law is that of trying to keep the Mosaic laws and seeking one's justification from it as the Galatians did. They were told Christ has become of no effect to them and they had fallen from grace. (Galatians 5:4)
In James 2;21-24 Jesus is speaking of works BUT works that come AFTER Faith! It was by the Faith in Jesus that Abraham did the works that God wanted.
Many people like to believe and teach that works come FIRST, then Faith comes afterwards.
But if you look carefully at James and what he says, he is saying because of his Faith in God was why Abraham offered his son.
James 1:21-27 is talking about being doers of the Word. We are to keep the Commandments mentioned by Jesus in the Gospel.
The problem is, as i have said many times, people want to believe its by their Works they can receive Faith and by their works they receive Salvation. The Holy Spirit says just the opposite. Its by Faith we receive Salvation, its by Faith we are doers of the Word, and its by Faith we do the Works of Faith.
Faith comes first in the life of the True Christian. There are many false Christians, like the Catholics, who put Works first before Faith which is wrong.
By Faith we have been Saved, and its by Faith we follow Jesus and keep His Commandments. The works we do has nothing to do with our Salvation, but has a lot to do with the Rewards we receive.
1 Corinthians 3:10-15
[SUP]10 [/SUP] According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Many people like to believe and teach that works come FIRST, then Faith comes afterwards.
But if you look carefully at James and what he says, he is saying because of his Faith in God was why Abraham offered his son.
James 1:21-27 is talking about being doers of the Word. We are to keep the Commandments mentioned by Jesus in the Gospel.
The problem is, as i have said many times, people want to believe its by their Works they can receive Faith and by their works they receive Salvation. The Holy Spirit says just the opposite. Its by Faith we receive Salvation, its by Faith we are doers of the Word, and its by Faith we do the Works of Faith.
Faith comes first in the life of the True Christian. There are many false Christians, like the Catholics, who put Works first before Faith which is wrong.
By Faith we have been Saved, and its by Faith we follow Jesus and keep His Commandments. The works we do has nothing to do with our Salvation, but has a lot to do with the Rewards we receive.
1 Corinthians 3:10-15
[SUP]10 [/SUP] According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Catholicism does not teach you Salvation is only by Faith and Grace. They teach you have to work for your Salvation by trying to make yourself sinless by your own efforts.
Catholicism teaches we receive Salvation by doing the " Sacraments" required BY the Roman Catholic Church. AND! Nobody can know for sure IF they have received Salvation until AFTER they die!
The Catholics have NO assurance of Salvation! Its a game of hits and misses! IF you do everything we must do for Salvation we MIGHT receive Salvation AFTER we die!
Do you see how the Catholics have no hope of ever entering into Heaven?
God clearly say Salvation is receive by Faith and Grace ONLY! God clearly teaches there is nothing you can do to EARN Salvation!
Ephesians 2:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Salvation is NOT by ANY WORKS! Its a Gift with no strings attached!
Catholicism teaches we receive Salvation by doing the " Sacraments" required BY the Roman Catholic Church. AND! Nobody can know for sure IF they have received Salvation until AFTER they die!
The Catholics have NO assurance of Salvation! Its a game of hits and misses! IF you do everything we must do for Salvation we MIGHT receive Salvation AFTER we die!
Do you see how the Catholics have no hope of ever entering into Heaven?
God clearly say Salvation is receive by Faith and Grace ONLY! God clearly teaches there is nothing you can do to EARN Salvation!
Ephesians 2:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Salvation is NOT by ANY WORKS! Its a Gift with no strings attached!
I suggest you actually look at the Catholic Catechism... They believe faith and forgiveness in Christ PLUS works. Believing is not enough. You must work out your faith. Which Protestants may not teach in principle, but a great number of them certainly do by practice. "You're born again, now you must DO x,y,and z... grow (works) your faith." Reading the bible, going to church, praying, etc.
And for them that includes the Sacraments. If you are "going through the motions" and haven't been forgiven by Christ, it is all for not. They DO NOT teach you can be saved apart from Him. They DO NOT teach that the priest literally has power to forgive you. They DO NOT teach that Mary is divine or deserving of worship.
For those who claim these things, pointing to an actual, universal Catholic resource like the catecism the Pope approves of, would give your attacks a heck of a lot more weight - instead of spouting off the same ignorant misconceptions.
I have never seen a bitter opponent of Catholicism actually point to a widely accepted Catholic resource when telling everyone what they believe... ever. Probably cause finding such would be difficult as they don't teach that in the first place.
And for them that includes the Sacraments. If you are "going through the motions" and haven't been forgiven by Christ, it is all for not. They DO NOT teach you can be saved apart from Him. They DO NOT teach that the priest literally has power to forgive you. They DO NOT teach that Mary is divine or deserving of worship.
For those who claim these things, pointing to an actual, universal Catholic resource like the catecism the Pope approves of, would give your attacks a heck of a lot more weight - instead of spouting off the same ignorant misconceptions.
I have never seen a bitter opponent of Catholicism actually point to a widely accepted Catholic resource when telling everyone what they believe... ever. Probably cause finding such would be difficult as they don't teach that in the first place.
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"I have never seen a bitter opponent of Catholicism actually point to a widely accepted Catholic resource when telling everyone what they believe... ever. Probably cause finding such would be difficult as they don't teach that in the first place."
Usually what you see is the same thing you see when different Protestant denominations go at one another - strawmen, strawmen everywhere.
Usually what you see is the same thing you see when different Protestant denominations go at one another - strawmen, strawmen everywhere.
Actually the Catholic Church believes its by your OWN Works that you become Justified in the sight of God.
Also the Catholic Church teaches that Mary was born without sin.
Both of these are NOT in the Scriptures. God clearly says we are Justified by Faith and not by Works like the Catholic Church teaches. Also God clearly has said ALL have sinned and ALL includes Mary.
Actually the bitter people are the Catholics because they are not the True Children of God. How can a Catholic be a True Christian when they are taught there is nothing wrong with Praying to a Statue of Mary? How can a Catholic be a True Christian when they are taught Salvation is EARNED by the Works they do?
Its you jamie26301 who are bitter towards the True Children of God. Its people like you jamie26301 who have been deceived by the Catholic Church into believing the lie instead of the Truth from God.
Have you ever looked at what the Catholic Church teaches and compared it to what God says in the Scriptures?
Did you know the Catholic Church teaches that Muslims are our Brothers in Christ? How can a Muslim be a Brother in Christ when the Muslims reject Jesus Christ as God? This is just another example of how the Catholic Church is walking away from God.
Only God has the Truth. Only the Scriptures from God has the Truth.
Show us where in the Scriptures did God ever say Mary was born without sin? Where in the Scriptures did God ever say we receive Salvation by Works?
God said, Faith plus Grace is all that is needed for receiving Salvation. Its the Catholic Church that added WORKS to the equation, not God.
Until you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and follow Him only, you will never be allowed to enter into Heaven.
Also the Catholic Church teaches that Mary was born without sin.
Both of these are NOT in the Scriptures. God clearly says we are Justified by Faith and not by Works like the Catholic Church teaches. Also God clearly has said ALL have sinned and ALL includes Mary.
Actually the bitter people are the Catholics because they are not the True Children of God. How can a Catholic be a True Christian when they are taught there is nothing wrong with Praying to a Statue of Mary? How can a Catholic be a True Christian when they are taught Salvation is EARNED by the Works they do?
Its you jamie26301 who are bitter towards the True Children of God. Its people like you jamie26301 who have been deceived by the Catholic Church into believing the lie instead of the Truth from God.
Have you ever looked at what the Catholic Church teaches and compared it to what God says in the Scriptures?
Did you know the Catholic Church teaches that Muslims are our Brothers in Christ? How can a Muslim be a Brother in Christ when the Muslims reject Jesus Christ as God? This is just another example of how the Catholic Church is walking away from God.
Only God has the Truth. Only the Scriptures from God has the Truth.
Show us where in the Scriptures did God ever say Mary was born without sin? Where in the Scriptures did God ever say we receive Salvation by Works?
God said, Faith plus Grace is all that is needed for receiving Salvation. Its the Catholic Church that added WORKS to the equation, not God.
Until you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and follow Him only, you will never be allowed to enter into Heaven.
How can any Catholic be a True Christian when all they do is listen to Satan?
Its the Catholics who are "bitter" today because people have rejected the Catholic Church for the Truth from God. I find no "bitter" people than the Catholics who refuse to accept the Scriptures from God.
They can claim all they want on how God demands we have to WORK for everything that is freely given by God! The Catholics have no Truth. How can any Catholic have the Truth when they WORSHIP Mary as their God?
Look at Pope John Paul II and how he bowed down to all the Statues of Mary and Worship them as his God!
We have seen picture after picture of Catholics on their knees in front of a Statue of Mary Worshiping Her as their God.
The Catholics and the Catholic Church today is being used by Satan to spread his lies through out the World today. There will be a time when Pope Francis will force all the Catholics to bow down to the Anti-Christ and worship him as their God.
All i see in you jamie26301 is bitterness towards what God has said in the Scriptures. Its you who will have to face the Wrath of God for what your are doing.
Matthew 7:21-23
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Jesus is talking to you in these verses jamie26301.
Its the Catholics who are "bitter" today because people have rejected the Catholic Church for the Truth from God. I find no "bitter" people than the Catholics who refuse to accept the Scriptures from God.
They can claim all they want on how God demands we have to WORK for everything that is freely given by God! The Catholics have no Truth. How can any Catholic have the Truth when they WORSHIP Mary as their God?
Look at Pope John Paul II and how he bowed down to all the Statues of Mary and Worship them as his God!
We have seen picture after picture of Catholics on their knees in front of a Statue of Mary Worshiping Her as their God.
The Catholics and the Catholic Church today is being used by Satan to spread his lies through out the World today. There will be a time when Pope Francis will force all the Catholics to bow down to the Anti-Christ and worship him as their God.
All i see in you jamie26301 is bitterness towards what God has said in the Scriptures. Its you who will have to face the Wrath of God for what your are doing.
Matthew 7:21-23
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Jesus is talking to you in these verses jamie26301.
I appreciate your stance. The ones who argue on this thread are not educated in Catholicism at all and are either following some slanderous website or worse. I have watched this thread and their anti Catholic propaganda has been refuted, yet they come back with the same old thing. My advice is: DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!!!
The Catholics believe that no matter what God has done for them, they themselves by their own efforts and powers HAVE to spend time in Purgatory to MAKE themselves sinless and free from the "Stain" of their sin.
Therefore the Catholics will reject what you have asked notuptome. They will never accept what God says in the Scriptures. After all the Catholic Church is greater than God in their eyes! God to them means nothing. Its what the Catholic Church says that is the Truth, not what God says.
And yes notuptome, we do enter into the presence of God when we leave our bodies!
Therefore the Catholics will reject what you have asked notuptome. They will never accept what God says in the Scriptures. After all the Catholic Church is greater than God in their eyes! God to them means nothing. Its what the Catholic Church says that is the Truth, not what God says.
And yes notuptome, we do enter into the presence of God when we leave our bodies!
I understand this is a predominantly leaning Protestant site. I want to make clear that one thing I do appreciate is the allowance of any discussion of Catholic doctrine. That is admirable - unfortunately, some believers seem to think free discussion is synomous to "condoning" false doctrine (whatever that is - Protestants themselves can't get that straight and on the same page.) And on the flip side, I am certain one could easily find anti-Potestant forums. Whatever the flavor of willful ignorance and ax-grinding, there's a forum for it. 
The following posts responding to my last one (before the exasperated "lol") only proves my point. Never do I see someone actually quote a Catholic source when " warning" of Catholic teaching. It's almost always regurgitated strawmen, from people who have never actually done their homework.
I'm not Catholic, but I have gone to Catholic churches and read some Catholic literature. It's quite fascinating when you lift the veil of ignorance and LEARN something.
The following posts responding to my last one (before the exasperated "lol") only proves my point. Never do I see someone actually quote a Catholic source when " warning" of Catholic teaching. It's almost always regurgitated strawmen, from people who have never actually done their homework.
I'm not Catholic, but I have gone to Catholic churches and read some Catholic literature. It's quite fascinating when you lift the veil of ignorance and LEARN something.
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I understand this is a predominantly leaning Protestant site. I want to make clear that one thing I do appreciate is the allowance of any discussion of Catholic doctrine. That is admirable - unfortunately, some believers seem to think free discussion is synomous to "condoning" false doctrine (whatever that is - Protestants themselves can't get that straight and on the same page.) And on the flip side, I am certain one could easily find anti-Potestant forums. Whatever the flavor of willful ignorance and ax-grinding, there's a forum for it.
The following posts responding to my last one (before the exasperated "lol") only proves my point. Never do I see someone actually quote a Catholic source when " warning" of Catholic teaching. It's almost always regurgitated strawmen, from people who have never actually done their homework.
I'm not Catholic, but I have gone to Catholic churches and read some Catholic literature. It's quite fascinating when you lift the veil of ignorance and LEARN something.
The following posts responding to my last one (before the exasperated "lol") only proves my point. Never do I see someone actually quote a Catholic source when " warning" of Catholic teaching. It's almost always regurgitated strawmen, from people who have never actually done their homework.
I'm not Catholic, but I have gone to Catholic churches and read some Catholic literature. It's quite fascinating when you lift the veil of ignorance and LEARN something.
I married into a catholic family over forty years ago and attend church with a number of catholic converts. I have read material from the roman catholic church and seen the things they put in practice in their diocese.
I do not hate catholics but their doctrine is evil. Far more evil than many will ever believe.
For the cause of Christ
Roger