Catholic Heresy (for the record)
- Thread starter RoboOp
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You consider a London University advanced degree an evidence of amnesia? If I had ignored the early church fathers why did I spend four years on an advanced degree with the first 500 years of church history as my major?
so you consider relying on the Scriptures is bankrupt? It figures. Your church mainly in practise ignores them. But anyone with any intelligence will recognise that knowing the teaching of Jesus Christ and His Apostles is rather central to being a true Christian.
LOL of course they didn't. They had nothing to protest about. In the first 200 years of church history (that's an awful long time) they in the main kept true to The Scriptures, used the Scriptures as their authority and called heretics those who did not. They were like we are. Believers in sola scriptura.
well now how can obtaining our doctrine from the Scriptures be seen as making up any doctrine we like? That was the
prerogative of the Roman Catholic church.
You try to suggest that our denominations are at variance, and at the same time say we are all sola scriptura. Make up your mind lol. We have denominations, not the sectarianism of the Roman Catholic church. What's in a name? Our denominations are in agreement on all fundamental doctrines.
the word 'bishop (episkopos} simply indicates overseers. In the Apostolic church each church had a number of bishops (Phil 1.1). It was surely sensible that at each church the overseers should oversee the observing of the Lord's Supper.? That says nothing about liturgy or about the authority of individual bishops. It was simply saying that each church oversaw its own way of worship.
All of us observe the Lord's Supper and all of us have overseers (episkopoi) Does that make us liturgical and sacramental too? If so what are you grumbling about?
They did not believe in the 'real presence' in the sense in which YOU mean it. They did not believe that we literally ate a human body. We all believe in the real presence in the fact that Jesus Christ is really present as we observe the Lord's supper, and tht as we partake of it we partake of Him. We are just not cannibals..
Isn't four years concentrates study examining the view of experts sufficient? How about the continual study from then on for the next fifty years?
so you consider relying on the Scriptures is bankrupt? It figures. Your church mainly in practise ignores them. But anyone with any intelligence will recognise that knowing the teaching of Jesus Christ and His Apostles is rather central to being a true Christian.
LOL of course they didn't. They had nothing to protest about. In the first 200 years of church history (that's an awful long time) they in the main kept true to The Scriptures, used the Scriptures as their authority and called heretics those who did not. They were like we are. Believers in sola scriptura.
well now how can obtaining our doctrine from the Scriptures be seen as making up any doctrine we like? That was the
prerogative of the Roman Catholic church.
You try to suggest that our denominations are at variance, and at the same time say we are all sola scriptura. Make up your mind lol. We have denominations, not the sectarianism of the Roman Catholic church. What's in a name? Our denominations are in agreement on all fundamental doctrines.
the word 'bishop (episkopos} simply indicates overseers. In the Apostolic church each church had a number of bishops (Phil 1.1). It was surely sensible that at each church the overseers should oversee the observing of the Lord's Supper.? That says nothing about liturgy or about the authority of individual bishops. It was simply saying that each church oversaw its own way of worship.
All of us observe the Lord's Supper and all of us have overseers (episkopoi) Does that make us liturgical and sacramental too? If so what are you grumbling about?
They did not believe in the 'real presence' in the sense in which YOU mean it. They did not believe that we literally ate a human body. We all believe in the real presence in the fact that Jesus Christ is really present as we observe the Lord's supper, and tht as we partake of it we partake of Him. We are just not cannibals..
Isn't four years concentrates study examining the view of experts sufficient? How about the continual study from then on for the next fifty years?
Let me explain why : Because you are talking nonsense. The majority of the church fathers saw the rock as the statement that Peter had made that Jesus was the Messiah the Son of the living God. This was the matured view of Augustine of Hippo.
The keys of the Kingly Rule of Heaven in order to be able to bind and loose clearly reflected the giving of keys to Rabbis to enable them to bind and loose. Any intelligent person can see that. The same authority was given to all the Apostles. It had nothing to do with some ancient political office. Or are you suggesting that Peter held a political office and was not an Apostle at all?
The keys of the Kingly Rule of Heaven in order to be able to bind and loose clearly reflected the giving of keys to Rabbis to enable them to bind and loose. Any intelligent person can see that. The same authority was given to all the Apostles. It had nothing to do with some ancient political office. Or are you suggesting that Peter held a political office and was not an Apostle at all?
I have known many Catholics who were very good people.
But Catholicism is littered with some very egregious doctrinal errors and they also have a terrible history of example set by the majority of the popes themselves.
The bible doesn't mention a Vicar on Earth....I don't have to go through the pope to get to God.
Every believer has direct access to the throne of God 24/7. So much for the need for the confessional booth.
I can get down on my knees and ask God for forgiveness every night at my bedside and God forgives me right there.
Also their doctrine that the soul is immortal is false. The Spirit is immortal not the soul.
Christ gives his spirit to us because our souls are broken and that is why we must be born again.
Still some people can be elected by God in the womb like a special dispensation from God to get the ball rolling.
Every gift comes down from the Father of Lights in whom there is no variableness.
Cf. James 1:17
James 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
But Catholicism is littered with some very egregious doctrinal errors and they also have a terrible history of example set by the majority of the popes themselves.
The bible doesn't mention a Vicar on Earth....I don't have to go through the pope to get to God.
Every believer has direct access to the throne of God 24/7. So much for the need for the confessional booth.
I can get down on my knees and ask God for forgiveness every night at my bedside and God forgives me right there.
Also their doctrine that the soul is immortal is false. The Spirit is immortal not the soul.
Christ gives his spirit to us because our souls are broken and that is why we must be born again.
Still some people can be elected by God in the womb like a special dispensation from God to get the ball rolling.
Every gift comes down from the Father of Lights in whom there is no variableness.
Cf. James 1:17
James 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
You take one verse and rip it from its context make it your proof text and then distain any effort to show from scripture why you are wrong. Scripture cannot contradict itself. Ephesians 2:19-20 Jesus Christ the chief cornerstone of the church, the household of God. 1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid which is Jesus Christ.
You cling to untruth to your own hurt.
Find any ECF's that actually gave a testimony of knowing Christ and having eternal life?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You cling to untruth to your own hurt.
Find any ECF's that actually gave a testimony of knowing Christ and having eternal life?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
and I have shown you that you are totally in error.
but the traditions of the Roman Catholic church were not passed down by Paul. They were invented over the centuries as the church became more and more paganised after 300 A. They had nothing to do with the words Paul was speaking of. The traditions passed down by mouth are now found in the four Gospels and the epistles. At least we speak from the source. You speak on behalf of a clutch of murderers, fornicators, thieves, and persecutors..
yes the New Testament church, not the parody of a church which grew up to be the Roman Catholic church.
We fully accept the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Apostles.
NOTHING is proven in the writings of the fathers. Or should we accept the Gnosticism of Clement of Alexandria and Origen?
what we need is evidence and grounds for believing you, both of which are noticeably lacking. No one believes a parrot
Lets have the proof.
It is NOT what was handed down. It is what was invented centuries later.
My you are amazing. Have you studied all ten thousand in depth?. And not yet a hundred years old?. you are a genius. If you have not you are a liar.
Unfortunately for you my church is based on New Testament teaching. So clearly you have not examined us.
YAWN!!!! Same old lies. Can't you find something new? Our overseers (bishops/ministers) are all in direct succession to the Apostles. The truth came down to us through the very words of the Apostles themselves. Actually no one has been 'empowered to administer or delegate the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist'. That is fiction. There is no 'real presence of Christ in the Eucharist'. No one was specifically empowered for what you describe. Show me it in the New Testament where they 'broke bread from house to house'.
The early church fathers were NOT 'the early church'. Even the earliest came over half a century later and said nothing of what you claim. WE have the authentic writings of the early church. And we believe and follow them.
but the traditions of the Roman Catholic church were not passed down by Paul. They were invented over the centuries as the church became more and more paganised after 300 A. They had nothing to do with the words Paul was speaking of. The traditions passed down by mouth are now found in the four Gospels and the epistles. At least we speak from the source. You speak on behalf of a clutch of murderers, fornicators, thieves, and persecutors..
yes the New Testament church, not the parody of a church which grew up to be the Roman Catholic church.
We fully accept the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Apostles.
NOTHING is proven in the writings of the fathers. Or should we accept the Gnosticism of Clement of Alexandria and Origen?
what we need is evidence and grounds for believing you, both of which are noticeably lacking. No one believes a parrot
Lets have the proof.
It is NOT what was handed down. It is what was invented centuries later.
My you are amazing. Have you studied all ten thousand in depth?. And not yet a hundred years old?. you are a genius. If you have not you are a liar.
Unfortunately for you my church is based on New Testament teaching. So clearly you have not examined us.
YAWN!!!! Same old lies. Can't you find something new? Our overseers (bishops/ministers) are all in direct succession to the Apostles. The truth came down to us through the very words of the Apostles themselves. Actually no one has been 'empowered to administer or delegate the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist'. That is fiction. There is no 'real presence of Christ in the Eucharist'. No one was specifically empowered for what you describe. Show me it in the New Testament where they 'broke bread from house to house'.
The early church fathers were NOT 'the early church'. Even the earliest came over half a century later and said nothing of what you claim. WE have the authentic writings of the early church. And we believe and follow them.
F
I'm mean? This is my first encounter in talking to you. So Jeff would judge you and you didn't like that but you judge us ALL here and what, we're suppose to thank you for that. And here I was thinking you actually left the conversation because you were wise. For a moment, it was rather cool of you.