Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

[PaulThomson]

Seems all you left off was to tell him he is of his father, the devil.
Dangerous ground to tread.

Did you agree with his post?

 

[Cameron143]

Did you agree with his post?

I've long ago stopped reading his posts with any interest, and just started praying for him. But you seem to be able to separate wheat from tares. This is a remarkable gift since even angels are unable to do this. Saul of Tarsus is probably glad he met Jesus, and not you, on the road to Damascus.

 

[CS1]

You still haven't presented any biblical evidence to show that Calvinism is not biblically correct. As I mentioned before, Jesus has been silent for 2000 years. He hasn't spoken a single word to men in all that time, so all we have is the same old scriptures to work with.

I take it you're a sheep judging by your theology, you don't sound like a shepherd. Every single Christian must have a shepherd to lead them or they will be devoured by the hungry lion in one minute.

You refer to His gospel, but the problem with that is you haven't identified which of the 40 conflicting versions you believe. Jesus did preach One Gospel, but wicked men have ended up inventing 40 different and opposing versions. 39 are false and only one is true.

Just before you try to convince me that your shepherd convinced you that he has cracked the code and found the one and only true interpretation which is biblically correct, consider that the other 39 shepherds told their sheep that theirs is the only true interpretation and the rest are all Devils in sheep's clothing.

It is evident to me that your theology is incoherent and doesn't line up with the bible, so my question is how do you know that your shepherd is not a Devil in sheep's clothing.

That 's Because you are not wanting to see or listen. the Problem is the ISM !!!!! I said there are Biblical points supported by scripture for both positions. YOU DO NOT WANT TO HEAR THAT!!!!!!

As many of those hit on the hit by the TULIP attack these who do not accept Calvin as one should the Gospels. You worship it seems John Calvin because you identify as a Calvinist instead with Christ. In most if not all your post I have yet to see the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ that SAVES.

 

[CS1]

You still haven't presented any biblical evidence to show that Calvinism is not biblically correct. As I mentioned before, Jesus has been silent for 2000 years. He hasn't spoken a single word to men in all that time, so all we have is the same old scriptures to work with.

I take it you're a sheep judging by your theology, you don't sound like a shepherd. Every single Christian must have a shepherd to lead them or they will be devoured by the hungry lion in one minute.

You refer to His gospel, but the problem with that is you haven't identified which of the 40 conflicting versions you believe. Jesus did preach One Gospel, but wicked men have ended up inventing 40 different and opposing versions. 39 are false and only one is true.

Just before you try to convince me that your shepherd convinced you that he has cracked the code and found the one and only true interpretation which is biblically correct, consider that the other 39 shepherds told their sheep that theirs is the only true interpretation and the rest are all Devils in sheep's clothing.

It is evident to me that your theology is incoherent and doesn't line up with the bible, so my question is how do you know that your shepherd is not a Devil in sheep's clothing.

AND Jesus has never been silent. I HAS NEVER SEEN SUCH A FOOLISH COMMENT IN MY ENTIRE LIFE.

FYI John Calvin read the word of Jesus through the Gospels. Before HE ever knew about TULIPS.

 

[PaulThomson]

I've long ago stopped reading his posts with any interest, and just started praying for him. But you seem to be able to separate wheat from tares. This is a remarkable gift since even angels are unable to do this. Saul of Tarsus is probably glad he met Jesus, and not you, on the road to Damascus.

The man says Jesus stopped speaking to people 2000 years ago. Is that the opinion of someone with a saving faith in Jesus Christ,? and is that the opinion of someone who has the Holy Spirit guiding and teaching him?

 

[Cameron143]

The man says Jesus stopped speaking to people 2000 years ago. Is that the opinion of someone with a saving faith in Jesus Christ,? and is that the opinion of someone who has the Holy Spirit guiding and teaching him?

For the most part, Jesus did stop audibly speaking to people 2,000 ago. And it still doesn't address final judgment.
Making functional judgments are necessary and, even, called for of God's people. But totally correct doctrine isn't evidence of salvation. Do you know what is? The evidence of the fruit of the Spirit. How much of that are you finding regularly on this site? Haven't seen you calling those folks unsaved.
Mercy is an uncommon thing in these here parts.

 

[PaulThomson]

For the most part, Jesus did stop audibly speaking to people 2,000 ago. And it still doesn't address final judgment.
Making functional judgments are necessary and, even, called for of God's people. But totally correct doctrine isn't evidence of salvation. Do you know what is? The evidence of the fruit of the Spirit. How much of that are you finding regularly on this site? Haven't seen you calling those folks unsaved.
Mercy is an uncommon thing in these here parts.

He didn't say "audibly" speaking. Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice". Who knows what is, and who has, "totally correct doctrine"? Christlike behaviour is evidence of maturation. The word salvation applies to various events in the past, the presence and the future. The term "X is saved" is incoherent IMO. It does not indicate what aspect of salvation the claim is being asserted about.

 

[Cameron143]

He didn't say "audibly" speaking. Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice". Who knows what is, and who has, "totally correct doctrine"? Christlike behaviour is evidence of maturation. The word salvation applies to various events in the past, the presence and the future. The term "X is saved" is incoherent IMO. It does not indicate what aspect of salvation the claim is being asserted about.

Christ-like behavior may or may not be evidence of being a Christian. Anyone can outwardly appear obedient. No one can fake fruit. And while there are ongoing aspects of salvation, you are well aware to what I was referring. But thanks for sharing your perspective.

 

[rogerg]

That 's Because you are not wanting to see or listen. the Problem is the ISM !!!!! I said there are Biblical points supported by scripture for both positions. YOU DO NOT WANT TO HEAR THAT!!!!!!

Not possible. Scripture cannot contradict scripture. Should we come to any conclusion whereby scripture will not
harmonize- that opposing interpretations of primary doctrine at the same time appear valid - then our conclusion cannot be correct and in need of further consideration. In an ultimate sense (and as guardrails which God provided in the Bible), everything, in some sense, must support just one underlying, unifying and overriding doctrine - that Christ alone is Saviour - with everything else written by Him in it, being informational to, and supportive of, that.

[Psa 40:7 KJV] 7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,

[Jhn 5:39 KJV] 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Christ-like behavior may or may not be evidence of being a Christian. Anyone can outwardly appear obedient. No one can fake fruit. And while there are ongoing aspects of salvation, you are well aware to what I was referring. But thanks for sharing your perspective.

Continued and consistent obedience to the Lord IS a sign of good fruit. Because it is the Holy Spirit that causes a Christian to hear what Jesus is saying, to understand it, and gives the ability to obey. A person who doesn't abide in the Holy Spirit can't hear Jesus, can't sustain obedience and can't be consistent about it.

He didn't say "audibly" speaking. Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice". Who knows what is, and who has, "totally correct doctrine"? Christlike behaviour is evidence of maturation. The word salvation applies to various events in the past, the presence and the future. The term "X is saved" is incoherent IMO. It does not indicate what aspect of salvation the claim is being asserted about.

Don't listen to him. He's been wrong on a lot of things but then declares them as if they are. No, you the one that's RIGHT about this.


🥪

 

[selahsays]

Continued and consistent obedience to the Lord IS a sign of good fruit. Because it is the Holy Spirit that causes a Christian to hear what Jesus is saying, to understand it, and gives the ability to obey. A person who doesn't abide in the Holy Spirit can't hear Jesus, can't sustain obedience and can't be consistent about it.

Amen. I agree.

 

[Cameron143]

Continued and consistent obedience to the Lord IS a sign of good fruit. Because it is the Holy Spirit that causes a Christian to hear what Jesus is saying, to understand it, and gives the ability to obey. A person who doesn't abide in the Holy Spirit can't hear Jesus, can't sustain obedience and can't be consistent about it.





Don't listen to him. He's been wrong on a lot of things but then declares them as if they are. No, you the one that's RIGHT about this.


🥪

The Pharisees evidenced obedience to the law outwardly that made them appear as whited sepulchers. What they didn't evidence was fruit.
Obedience is a hard thing to know of another since we don't have access to people's hearts. So is knowing another's final spiritual estate, regardless of what we think we know.
Again, functional judgments serve a purpose, but no one here is qualified to make final judgments. And when we make functional judgments, our hearts should be set to be merciful and our purpose restoration. The very first fruit mentioned is love. It's a sandy soil that undergirds human judgment.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

The Pharisees evidenced obedience to the law outwardly that made them appear as whited sepulchers. What they didn't evidence was fruit.
Obedience is a hard thing to know of another since we don't have access to people's hearts. So is knowing another's final spiritual estate, regardless of what we think we know.
Again, functional judgments serve a purpose, but no one here is qualified to make final judgments. And when we make functional judgments, our hearts should be set to be merciful and our purpose restoration. The very first fruit mentioned is love. It's a sandy soil that undergirds human judgment.

Obedience is to Jesus' commands and direction, NOT Jewish ceremonial laws and the like. No one can actually obey Jesus unless they abide in the Holy Spirit. You mention love, how can anyone love the way Jesus does unless they abide in the Holy Spirit? Also the Holy Spirit says we're to choose our friends, our influences carefully. That shows God actually wants us to make proper judgements so you're wrong about that.

Part of loving as Jesus does is to protect the flock from false teaching and showing them how to distinguish the true Christian from the fake ones so that the flock can choose wisely. Do you not want the flock to learn to judge what is fake or not? Or do you want them to accept false teaching by just accepting anyone who says they're Christian?


🥪

 

[Cameron143]

Obedience is to Jesus' commands and direction, NOT Jewish ceremonial laws and the like. No one can actually obey Jesus unless they abide in the Holy Spirit. You mention love, how can anyone love the way Jesus does unless they abide in the Holy Spirit? Also the Holy Spirit says we're to choose our friends, our influences carefully. That shows God actually wants us to make proper judgements so you're wrong about that.

Part of loving as Jesus does is to protect the flock from false teaching and showing them how to distinguish the true Christian from the fake ones so that the flock can choose wisely. Do you not want the flock to learn to judge what is fake or not? Or do you want them to accept false teaching by just accepting anyone who says they're Christian?


🥪

How am I wrong if I said we are to make judgments, and then you agree that we should? And the fact remains, one can only judge outward conformity to any law, whether it's a new or old covenant command.
So while I'm in favor of the exercise of discernment, calling out poor doctrine is very different from judging someone's eternal estate. And this was my objection. So implying that I want Christians to accept false doctrine is disingenuous because my very actions in sharing evidences the opposite to be true.

 

[PaulThomson]

The Pharisees evidenced obedience to the law outwardly that made them appear as whited sepulchers. What they didn't evidence was fruit.
Obedience is a hard thing to know of another since we don't have access to people's hearts. So is knowing another's final spiritual estate, regardless of what we think we know.
Again, functional judgments serve a purpose, but no one here is qualified to make final judgments. And when we make functional judgments, our hearts should be set to be merciful and our purpose restoration. The very first fruit mentioned is love. It's a sandy soil that undergirds human judgment.

Jesus said, "They will know you are my disciples, if you love one other."

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

How am I wrong if I said we are to make judgments, and then you agree that we should? And the fact remains, one can only judge outward conformity to any law, whether it's a new or old covenant command.
So while I'm in favor of the exercise of discernment, calling out poor doctrine is very different from judging someone's eternal estate. And this was my objection. So implying that I want Christians to accept false doctrine is disingenuous because my very actions in sharing evidences the opposite to be true.

That's not true. The Holy Spirit can confirm if a person is a genuine Christian or not. If you can't discern it's because you either don't actually have the Holy Spirit and you're a fake or you're resisting Him and not listening. Why is that @PaulThomson, @selahsays and others know what I'm talking about, but you don't?

This is not the first time you made such false claims. I thought the first time a few weeks back that you just made a mistake, but now you falsely accused @PaulThomson of making wrong judgments when that Charles guy was making all these heretical claims. Are you kidding me? This time it was intentional. You're literally sticking up for the heretical guy over someone who was defending Jesus and His love for everyone!


🥪

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus said, "They will know you are my disciples, if you love one other."

Sure...because love is a fruit of the Spirit.

Do you believe they knew because of the commandment given to love or because they saw them caring one for another?

 

[Cameron143]

That's not true. The Holy Spirit can confirm if a person is a genuine Christian or not. If you can't discern it's because you either don't actually have the Holy Spirit and you're a fake or you're resisting Him and not listening. Why is that @PaulThomson, @selahsays and others know what I'm talking about, but you don't?

This is not the first time you made such false claims. I thought the first time a few weeks back that you just made a mistake, but now you falsely accused @PaulThomson of making wrong judgments when that Charles guy was making all these heretical claims. Are you kidding me? This time it was intentional. You're literally sticking up for the heretical guy over someone who was defending Jesus and His love for everyone!


🥪

What makes you think I don't understand what you are saying? I simply disagree with what you are saying.
And while the Spirit can reveal whether someone has accurate doctrine and even if a person may or may not be saved, are you prepared to say @CHARLIE is not saved or will ever be saved? If not, you are unqualified to judge.
And since you rendered the charge, can you show me where I defended his position or actions? This is evidence of your bias because I did neither. I expect heathens to be heathens. I also expect those who call themselves by the Lord's name to act accordingly. There was opportunity to exercise love and mercy. But like what generally happens on this site, rather than actually minister to an individual, people are made to feel unwelcome. Rather than bringing wandering ones to Jesus, people here alienate those who most need compassion. Little mercy and love is shown and opportunities are squandered for real ministry.
This was my original objection and I have stated it several times. You are more concerned to find fault in others than lighten yokes and loosen bonds. You have mischaracterized my words and intentions because it is you who don't understand what love really is. I doubt this will make a difference to you, but it would be in your interest to learn what it means that...I desire mercy and not sacrifice.

 

[PaulThomson]

Sure...because love is a fruit of the Spirit.

Do you believe they knew because of the commandment given to love or because they saw them caring one for another?

Because they saw them caring one for another?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

What makes you think I don't understand what you are saying? I simply disagree with what you are saying.
And while the Spirit can reveal whether someone has accurate doctrine and even if a person may or may not be saved, are you prepared to say @CHARLIE is not saved or will ever be saved? If not, you are unqualified to judge.
And since you rendered the charge, can you show me where I defended his position or actions? This is evidence of your bias because I did neither. I expect heathens to be heathens. I also expect those who call themselves by the Lord's name to act accordingly. There was opportunity to exercise love and mercy. But like what generally happens on this site, rather than actually minister to an individual, people are made to feel unwelcome. Rather than bringing wandering ones to Jesus, people here alienate those who most need compassion. Little mercy and love is shown and opportunities are squandered for real ministry.
This was my original objection and I have stated it several times. You are more concerned to find fault in others than lighten yokes and loosen bonds. You have mischaracterized my words and intentions because it is you who don't understand what love really is. I doubt this will make a difference to you, but it would be in your interest to learn what it means that...I desire mercy and not sacrifice.

Based on what he saying, YES. One of the first things a real Christian learns is that God loves everyone and that He mourns for the loss of those who reject Him. If a person can't even learn that basic characteristic about God - for God IS Love, then he doesn't know God.

Also Charles claims to have been a follower of Christ for a number of years and he STILL doesn't know that God is Love? Really? So fake.

I don't understand why you'd come to his defense when he's making false claims about God hating the lost, but not support @PaulThomson who was defending God's character. It is bad enough that in this world God's name gets dragged through the mud, but you take the side of the person doing that here in this forum?

You also have to tendency to back track and try to make yourself out to be innocent, that your duplicity isn't what was meant, but what you've wrote is already on record.

I do love. I love God. I love Him first. I would never defend the person wrongfully accusing God of being hateful to those who reject Him or who think the innocent infants that got killed when Jesus was born deserved it. You can't throw this back at me - it won't stick.


🥪