Calling Jesus "Lord,' without choosing to obey Him with one's life, is useless and is not able to save anyone.

Pilgrimshope · Oct 19, 2020

brother here’s what I would say about being sinless , and how to receive the gift of righteousness offered through faith .

“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel is that light we are to walk in . Here’s a challenge for you if you can show me from scripture Moses teaching this stuff , then I will agree the light we are to walk in is spiritual understanding and knowledge given by Christ the truth of the spirit . This is what changes us to believe him

this is what Jesus teachings are like

And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

.... Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. ( Luke 24:44-48)

.....Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:

...Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

....It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: ( Moses commandment , Deuteronomy 24:1-2)

But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: ( Moses commandment exodus 21:24-25)

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

.....But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:

for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:2-22, 25-28, 31-32, 38-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you find Moses teaching what Jesus was I’ll agree they aren’t different

Jackson123 · Oct 19, 2020

Pilgrimshope said:

So Jesus not destroy the law of Moses but make it harder.

1 John 3:9
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

Do you think this verse contradict

If we say that we have not sinned,we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

Pilgrimshope · Oct 19, 2020

Jackson123 said:

no brother Jesus didn’t destroy it , he fulfilled it for us . See the end of the law if we are a sinner in any way is death . Jesus died to fulfill that righteous requirement written in the law of Moses if summarized it says “ if you sin you must surely be put to death “

scripture has concluded in the prophets long ago that all are sinful to some degree some have lied , some have stolen , some commit adultery , some sin whatever the law forbids at some point we all have a measure of sin according to the law .

“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what Paul is saying is Christ took our sentence of death because we have all sinned and the law requires a sinners death. The curse of the law is death. When someone is out to death for their sin that’s the end of the matter under Moses law the law no more applies to that person .

“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held;

that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

notice before Jesus began preaching he was anointed with the spirit from heaven ? Everything Jesus preached after John was put in prisonuntil he was taken back up to heaven , is the gospel the new covenant.

I’m not saying brother that we are free to sin , please don’t misunderstand . I’m saying unless God fulfilled the law for us we could Not be saved It condemns every person who is less than perfect.

the gospel goes to those imperfect people and loves them and teaches them righteousness through mercy and truth . The gospel comes to those who know they are not good enough to save themselves , so they have to turn to Jesus The savior and believe the gospel Of our Lord concerning his etrrnal
Kingdom.

notice Jesus teaches “ lust in the heart the intents we have are the same as commiting the sin ? He is teaching us how to overcome sin by the spirit . People only commit adultery because of listful thoughts and intents they allow in thier mind and heart and imaginations .

Jesus doctrine is about changing the issues in our hearts and minds our poor perceptions of God . We need to see and understand God how Jesus taught us, and not how Moses taught them.

because it is Christ who died to set us free from sin and death , we have to believe in his word and promises of his kingdom . He bought us at a steep price and interceded for us when all was lost

“And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.

For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.

...And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.

As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:16-17, 20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we learn to hear the gospel we won’t have a Need for being told not to commit adultery because we don’t allow it in our thoughts and hearts Jesus taught us how to overcome sin

if we don’t hold grudges and hate in our hearts we aren’t going to act in those sins motivated by those things . We overcome the will of the flesh by following the spirit

It’s about accepting and believing the gospel as were able to understand it salvation remains between a believer and Christ

Jackson123 · Oct 19, 2020

Pilgrimshope said:

Jesus taught us how to overcome sin.

Example of sin is adultery.

> Jesus taught us to overcome adultery.

What happen if after being thought by Jesus we never overcome adultery? He stop teaching us to overcome adultery, or keep teach us till we die.

What happen if we never overcome till die, Jesus forgive us though we never repent?

Can Jesus make us overcome if we don't want to overcome?

Pilgrimshope · Oct 20, 2020

Jackson123 said:

you know how 1 verse might seem to contradict one other single verse from elsewhere ? All of the understanding that connects the ideas is in between most often we need to look at a paragraph or chapter to understand what’s being said. We can’t grasp
A lot by single verses because they do seem to be contradictory that way

brother if someone doesn’t want to overcome sin they will reject Jesus teachings it’s about real belief. People who don’t want to get out of sin fall in this category

“And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what keeps some away from the gospel is they begin to understand as they learn it that they can’t keep living in sin. If someone loves sin they will never come to the real gospel Jesus taught because it will reprove those sins they love. He calls for those things through faith because we believe.

Some won’t accept the gospel because they trust in the law , others reject the gospel because they have been deceived and think it doesn’t apply to the church Others distort and preach different things and call it the gospel . But it’s about the gospel Jesus brought forth that is anointed to heal the things in us that have caused all of our issues

Christian faith has to come from what God has said In the gospel. That should be what forms our belief. Because “faith comes by hearing Gods word “

God is the one working in those who believe to bring about repentance and righteousness we are the believers

“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

imagine this is true
“According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We need to be reborn in our mind and heart our Inner nature

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭

“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we need our understanding and will renewed because of corruption. It’s about what Jesus said it’s about faith , believing , persevering in his word the word of life .

a person can shout to all comers in the world “ don’t commit adultery” and there is no effect upon a soul nothing to change the issues which cause sin nothing to save

anyways dear brother thanks for the discussion and time I hope to hear some other thoughts of yours and appreciate the spirit in you

Jackson123 · Oct 20, 2020

Pilgrimshope said:

Roman 7
19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

That is I think what Paul say.
He want to do good but fail, there are people that doesn't want to do good et all

One must have desire to overcome sin. We may fail but we strive for (overcome sin)

Pilgrimshope · Oct 21, 2020

Jackson123 said:

yes brother I agree 100 percent . We must have the attitude to be perfect , but we must understand Gods mercy in Christ for the times we fail . If we have that attitude it will cause us sorrow when we have sinned and we will learn to repent truly and quickly to keep us on the right path.

Do you see how again you are looking at one verse there ? Paul is explaining the law of sin inside of us there that we need freedom from

“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That law of sin comes from the forbidden knowledge of good and evil it creates a conflict in us we want to do good , but sin within us wants to do evil.

we have the “ law of the spirit of life “ The gospel , that sets us free from sin and death

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Believing the gospel changes the mind from carnal to spiritual so we can follow the spirit

MyrtleTrees · Oct 22, 2020

posthuman said:

True - his confession of sin - his repentance and seeing Jesus as Lord, was all that was needed to save the thief on the cross! And if he'd lived instead of died after that - evidence of his being saved would have shown, by choices he'd have made in life, and how he'd have lived in daily living. It's true that without being saved, it is impossible to produce any works satisfactory to God. Yet following conversion - ones are commanded, to be in obedience to God in daily life to the best of their ability and to repent sincerely of their sins, daily. Those who don't repent regularly are falling away from Christ are in danger, I believe, judging by scriptures I know on the subject.

1 Cor 5:5

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
KJV
Comment: The above verse refers to the man in the Corinthian church who had had sexual relations with his mother.

Heb 6:6

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
KJV
Comment: The above verse means, that just repenting at the time of conversion isn't able to save anyone if one doesn't continue in a life of daily sincere repentance of all unintentional sins. Jesus can't die for them a 2nd time in order to forgive them. The only way to get forgiven if they fall away is to come to a full repentance again of all sin in their lives.

posthuman · Oct 22, 2020

Jackson123 said:

i agree i don't think repenting necessarily means succeeding in ridding myself of all failure.

i repent of being a fool, does that mean unless i am all wise at all times, i haven't *really* repented my foolishness?

Everyone struggles, and God says His strength is made perfect in our weakness. if i didn't fail maybe i would boast and say i don't need Him, or forget Him. As it is i need Him every hour, and every hour reminds me.

Jackson123 · Oct 22, 2020

Pilgrimshope said:

If we walk in the light as He is

Can we walk as He? He is sinless we walk in the sin.

The blood cleanseth us from sin

What is that mean?

A. We still doing sin, adultery, robing the bank, envy etc but God not consider us as sinner, or

B. We start hate sin, may fall in sin occasionally but regret and hate it?

Jackson123 · Oct 22, 2020

posthuman said:

Yep, we are not success overcome sin yet, but we wa

I remember when I was in elementary the teacher ask us to write what do you want to be, what is the goal in your life.
Some people want rich, some want to be a doctor etc

Not every body success to be what they want, but yes every body want to be good.

If a man want to be a doctor, he must study hard. You can't success to be a doctor if you don't want go to school. Sleeping all day and not read your text book.

Narrow is the path to be a doctor, a lot of competitions.
Only 3.3 % applicant accept in Harvard medical school.

Quote
With an acceptance rate of only 3.3%, Harvard denies over 6,000 applicants each year. Since a high GPA and MCAT score won't be enough to separate you from the pile, you might wonder exactly how to get into Harvard Medical School. In 2019, HMS accepted only 227 out of over 6,800 candidates.May 4, 2020

So does the path to heaven.

Matt 7

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Salvation by grace through faith. Is faith easy and no need struggle?

Stephen stoned to dead for his faith, so does most apostle.

Prosperity theology seem easy and promising but I don't know if the Bible teach every Christian must rich

In contrary bible say it is easier for camel enter into needle hole than richman into heaven.

Faith not focus on the temporary earth, but rich forever in heaven, it may need temporary struggle on earth.
And narrow the road that le

Jackson123 · Oct 22, 2020

posthuman said:

Yep, we are not success overcome sin yet, but we wa

I remember when I was in elementary the teacher ask us to write what do you want to be, what is the goal in your life.
Some people want rich, some want to be a doctor etc

Not every body success to be what they want, but yes every body want to be good.

If a man want to be a doctor, he must study hard. You can't success to be a doctor if you don't want go to school. Sleeping all day and not read your text book.

Narrow is the path to be a doctor, a lot of competitions.
I hear out of 1000 applicant only 100 accepted.

So does the path to heaven.

Matt 7

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

And narrow the road that le

Pilgrimshope · Oct 22, 2020

MyrtleTrees said:

“And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.

He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
‭‭2 John‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

‬ ‭
“And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

...Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39, 41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:16-22, 24‬ ‭

lenna · Oct 22, 2020

the narrow definition of salvation through the Lordship scenario (no thank you Mr MacArthur) illustrates our inability to succeed on our own more than the commandments themself because MacArthur is adding to scripture

Jesus never said do what I say and call me Lord

what He actually said was 'why do you call me Lord and yet do not do what I tell you to do?'

And why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I say? Luke 6:46 He was addressing the Pharisees

so, if you are calling Jesus Lord Lord are you doing every single thing He says? are you sinless? are you perfect? are you maybe a Pharisee? (ooops no one is gonna like that one)

my point is, Jesus already is Lord. you cannot make Him anymore Lord than He already is.

no one becomes sinless by calling Jesus Lord and yet we know we are to follow Him. we are 100% saved the moment we accept Christ but the work of the Holy Spirit is ongoing in our lives and that work is to conform us to the image of Christ

we were made in God's image...consult the 1st chapter of Genesis...but our rebirth in Christ is the work of the Holy Spirit and it is ongoing throughout our earthly lives

I don't think MacArthur understands what Jesus actually said.

lenna · Oct 22, 2020

MyrtleTrees said:

there we see a weakness in the great Mac debate

he does not seem to understand that without the Holy Spirit, no matter the great works we do, we are exulting our flesh

we are not able to save ourselves and our works do not please God, in fact, they insult Him

we need to be aware of the difference between saying what someone wants to hear and actually allowing the Holy Spirit to work in our hearts and cleanse us as we walk though this life

salvation is instant, but the Holy Spirit conforms us to the image of Christ if we lay down our pride and self righteousness

Jackson123 · Oct 22, 2020

lenna said:

Did Pharisees call Jesus Lord?
I don't think Pharisees believe Jesus as God so narrow path is not only for pharises but for people that call Jesus Lord or God but not strive to do the will of the Father.

And the will of the Father is to love God,Jesus and love the neighbor.

lenna · Oct 22, 2020

Jackson123 said:

I don't know what point you are making

no clue what you are saying here

Jackson123 · Oct 22, 2020

lenna said:

I quote what you say below

Quote
And why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I say? Luke 6:46 He was addressing the Pharisees

End quote

You believe when Jesus say why do you call me Lord Lord, He is addressing Pharisees
Jesus not addressing Pharisees. Jesus addressing people that call Him Lord, Oharisess not call Him Lord, Pharisees don't believe Jesus as a God.

Blade · Oct 23, 2020

For me this comes to mind "But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the LORD does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.”
We can quote His word all day on about this matter. In the end we still do not see as He does.

Lets see what you posted Luke.. I can't see how that has anything to do with "salvation". Unless this is something to do with "works"?

And Matt 7. Now I can read Matt 7 and apply things to my own life. Yet I must look at just who He was talking to. He was not talking to one Christian no Church. These were people that were still living by the law 613 of them. And "never knew you". If everyone here believes in Jesus as lord came in the flesh etc then He can never ever say to you "I never knew you". He can't lie. Angels rejoiced when you were found. As you talked about Him.. He told the Father about you.

Another missing thing.. well every time I read these kind of posts I get this thought "Jesus is real". Hello? Yeah.... day in day out He is with you.. sweet holy Spirit with you.. and He talks. What He started He will finish. Either He stop talking or were not listening.

I don't know.. I can't read His books can't see the heart. So yeah.. just believe John 3:16 Rom 10:9-10... I can't save you. My personal believe won't save you. He found you.. He started this in you. We again forget that no one comes to Him unless He drew them

Jackson123 · Oct 23, 2020

Blade said:

Do you believe people that still living under 613 law call Jesus Lord?

I use to have a Jews friend, he didn't believe Jesus is God so he not call Jesus Lord. So Jesus addressing Jews, but people that think himself as Christian. Only Christian call Jesus alord

Calling Jesus "Lord,' without choosing to obey Him with one's life, is useless and is not able to save anyone.

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