Calling Jesus "Lord,' without choosing to obey Him with one's life, is useless and is not able to save anyone.
- Thread starter MyrtleTrees
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Yep, that what bible say, and to me that is not an easy task.
That is why I say to get forgiveness is not easy, and for salvation we need forgiveness.
I know some muslim accept Jesus for a while than after disown by his family, lose friend and dome lose his job, he back to muslim. Salvation is free and grace, it doesn't mean you can do what ever you want, pretend to be muslim and Deny Jesus.
It is grace but If you Deny Him he Will Deny you in front of the Father and you not save.
Grace doesn't mean not obey.
Some chose to lose job, disown by family and run from home.
2 days ago I listen youtube the story about One of Indonesian Movies star, he accept the Lord after have 3 visions
1. He SAW a church but It close and about 100 meter from where he at.
Than he pray ask God why he see a church, who is real God? Jesus or Allah. No body answer.
2. Same visions but now closer, about 50 meter.
He pray ask same w
Question, No answer
3. Same visions, closer, he pray ask the same question, this time the door open and he SAW white rays out from the church, He believe It mean real God is in the church so he accept the Lord.
He tell his Christian friend about his decision, and ask what must he do, do he need tell his parent, or pretending never accept Jesus for his safety?
His friend show him the verse about If you Deny Jesus, He Will Deny you.
So,he tell his family, every body upset he fell his life threatened, so he run away.
His good muslim friend told him that his parent went to,shaman to ask where he hide, but the shaman say, there is a wall that cover him so the shaman can't Find where he hide.
His Christian friend bring him out of town about200 Mile away to hide in the pastor house.
He ask the pastor to babtized him, but the pastor say, I Will baptized you If you ask permission from your parent.
He's scared and he pray and fasting for about 2 month.
After 2 month pray he text his sister, I miss you all and I want to visit you. His sister say, she Will help him to convince his parent not to harm him If he visit them. Intence pray change his parent after some time his parent promise his sister they not going to harm him If he visit them.
Salvation by grace free, but It doesn't mean you can do what ever you want, Deny Him etc.
He have to hide to other town mean lose his job.
Yes It grace and free, but through faith, and faith is not that easy.
Because of faith Abraham have to move to Israel, that is about 2000 mile oN foot.
Free, grace but need obey and to me that is not easy.
That is why I say to get forgiveness is not easy, and for salvation we need forgiveness.
I know some muslim accept Jesus for a while than after disown by his family, lose friend and dome lose his job, he back to muslim. Salvation is free and grace, it doesn't mean you can do what ever you want, pretend to be muslim and Deny Jesus.
It is grace but If you Deny Him he Will Deny you in front of the Father and you not save.
Grace doesn't mean not obey.
Some chose to lose job, disown by family and run from home.
2 days ago I listen youtube the story about One of Indonesian Movies star, he accept the Lord after have 3 visions
1. He SAW a church but It close and about 100 meter from where he at.
Than he pray ask God why he see a church, who is real God? Jesus or Allah. No body answer.
2. Same visions but now closer, about 50 meter.
He pray ask same w
Question, No answer
3. Same visions, closer, he pray ask the same question, this time the door open and he SAW white rays out from the church, He believe It mean real God is in the church so he accept the Lord.
He tell his Christian friend about his decision, and ask what must he do, do he need tell his parent, or pretending never accept Jesus for his safety?
His friend show him the verse about If you Deny Jesus, He Will Deny you.
So,he tell his family, every body upset he fell his life threatened, so he run away.
His good muslim friend told him that his parent went to,shaman to ask where he hide, but the shaman say, there is a wall that cover him so the shaman can't Find where he hide.
His Christian friend bring him out of town about200 Mile away to hide in the pastor house.
He ask the pastor to babtized him, but the pastor say, I Will baptized you If you ask permission from your parent.
He's scared and he pray and fasting for about 2 month.
After 2 month pray he text his sister, I miss you all and I want to visit you. His sister say, she Will help him to convince his parent not to harm him If he visit them. Intence pray change his parent after some time his parent promise his sister they not going to harm him If he visit them.
Salvation by grace free, but It doesn't mean you can do what ever you want, Deny Him etc.
He have to hide to other town mean lose his job.
Yes It grace and free, but through faith, and faith is not that easy.
Because of faith Abraham have to move to Israel, that is about 2000 mile oN foot.
Free, grace but need obey and to me that is not easy.
-
2
- Show all
Moses taught the old covenant
“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
Leviticus 20:10 KJV
That’s Moses teaching . This is what Jesus taught
“And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
...So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last:
and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”
John 8:3-5, 7-
Moses taught contrary at Nearly every Principle point brother it is a different covenant and a different mediator it is not possible to follow Moses law and the gospel Jesus taught they are contrary
Moses taught if your not happy in marriage give a bill of divorcement and you are now free to remarry . But Jesus taught very different
“It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:”
Matthew 5:31-34 KJV
Moses law is not for Christians it’s for the blood descendants of Abraham and thier converts. What Moses taught actually a blinder to the gospel.
“And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.”
2 Corinthians 3:13-16 KJV
the law of Moses is the reason many of them rejected and crucified Jesus because he was teaching them things contrary to what Moses taught from Sinai. What Jesus taught is the new and everlasting covenant. Moses law does not apply to anyone who believes the gospel Jesus taught.
and it’s very different , much much better , much better promises and a better law that works on us rather than condemning us like Moses law . My last point would be this from the apostle paul
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:
for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
Romans 3:19-23 KJV
what’s important about that is that once you break the law you are now forever a transgressor who has broken the entire covenant law
“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
James 2:10 KJV
I would say to read a sermon of Jesus , and then read the teaching in Moses law and you would say they are contrary at many points and there are moral similarities but they are very different . We belong to Jesus not Moses
“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
Leviticus 20:10 KJV
That’s Moses teaching . This is what Jesus taught
“And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
...So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last:
and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”
John 8:3-5, 7-
Moses taught contrary at Nearly every Principle point brother it is a different covenant and a different mediator it is not possible to follow Moses law and the gospel Jesus taught they are contrary
Moses taught if your not happy in marriage give a bill of divorcement and you are now free to remarry . But Jesus taught very different
“It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:”
Matthew 5:31-34 KJV
Moses law is not for Christians it’s for the blood descendants of Abraham and thier converts. What Moses taught actually a blinder to the gospel.
“And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.”
2 Corinthians 3:13-16 KJV
the law of Moses is the reason many of them rejected and crucified Jesus because he was teaching them things contrary to what Moses taught from Sinai. What Jesus taught is the new and everlasting covenant. Moses law does not apply to anyone who believes the gospel Jesus taught.
and it’s very different , much much better , much better promises and a better law that works on us rather than condemning us like Moses law . My last point would be this from the apostle paul
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:
for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
Romans 3:19-23 KJV
what’s important about that is that once you break the law you are now forever a transgressor who has broken the entire covenant law
“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
James 2:10 KJV
I would say to read a sermon of Jesus , and then read the teaching in Moses law and you would say they are contrary at many points and there are moral similarities but they are very different . We belong to Jesus not Moses
Moses not teach from himself, all what Moses teach come from agod,
And Jesus is God so Jesus not change Moses law or contradict Moses law, because Moses law is also from God, Jesus only fulfil OT not change
Mat 5:17
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
OT say love your God NT same not contradict
Is OT love God NT hate God? No
OT not commit adultery, same in NT
This what NT say
1 cor 6:9-10
9.Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
....No adulterer...inherit the kingdom of God.
And Jesus is God so Jesus not change Moses law or contradict Moses law, because Moses law is also from God, Jesus only fulfil OT not change
Mat 5:17
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
OT say love your God NT same not contradict
Is OT love God NT hate God? No
OT not commit adultery, same in NT
This what NT say
1 cor 6:9-10
9.Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
....No adulterer...inherit the kingdom of God.
-
1
- Show all
Dear MyrtleTrees:
I hear the passion in your voice regarding your comments. That is obvious. Please continue with your efforts to learn from God’s word and to hear His voice. Please be open to how He can teach you His ways. The issue I need to share with you is the lesson we saw at the cross. The sinner to whom Jesus said, “before the end of the day , you will be with me in paradise”; had done NOTHING to add to his simple recognition that Jesus was innocent. The sinner’s prayer , as we know it , is all that is necessary to be included in the mass of souls spending eternity with Jesus in Heaven. The proof of this is in the history made on Calvary’s hill. Once we have time to grow in Him, we “should” do things that take time and commitment on our part, but thats another story.
Believe me , you are not alone in your thoughts. But please don’t spend any more time on this denominational, (non-Biblical) point of view.
Your brother in Christ, GG
I hear the passion in your voice regarding your comments. That is obvious. Please continue with your efforts to learn from God’s word and to hear His voice. Please be open to how He can teach you His ways. The issue I need to share with you is the lesson we saw at the cross. The sinner to whom Jesus said, “before the end of the day , you will be with me in paradise”; had done NOTHING to add to his simple recognition that Jesus was innocent. The sinner’s prayer , as we know it , is all that is necessary to be included in the mass of souls spending eternity with Jesus in Heaven. The proof of this is in the history made on Calvary’s hill. Once we have time to grow in Him, we “should” do things that take time and commitment on our part, but thats another story.
Believe me , you are not alone in your thoughts. But please don’t spend any more time on this denominational, (non-Biblical) point of view.
Your brother in Christ, GG
-
1
- Show all
I don't believe that repentance isn't "works." I think it is. So that's why the thief on the cross got saved. That's how it looks to me.
Yes, I'm careful to search the scriptures a lot and that's important, as you say. And to always pray for God's help and guidance and help with understanding of the scriptures. I know holding stubbornly to a doctrine - having the wrong attitude is not good. But that is not true of me.
Heb 4:10
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
KJV
It's also sometimes, called, "fruit' in the Bible:
Matt 3:10
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
KJV
Matt 7:19
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
KJV
Yes, I'm careful to search the scriptures a lot and that's important, as you say. And to always pray for God's help and guidance and help with understanding of the scriptures. I know holding stubbornly to a doctrine - having the wrong attitude is not good. But that is not true of me.
Heb 4:10
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
KJV
It's also sometimes, called, "fruit' in the Bible:
Matt 3:10
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
KJV
Matt 7:19
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
KJV
-
1
- Show all
he confessed his own sin --
i don't think there's any need to quibble about the definitions of words. clearly he didn't participate in any sacraments or do any kind of great deeds to 'earn' his way into the kingdom - nor did he point to any supposed merit in himself. he believed in his heart, confessed with his mouth, and putting his trust in Christ, sought his grace. that is enough
we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds
(Luke 23:41)
he confessed Christ is LORD -- (Luke 23:41)
Your kingdom!
(Luke 23:42)
he looked to Him for mercy --(Luke 23:42)
Jesus, remember me
(Luke 23:42)
(Luke 23:42)
i don't think there's any need to quibble about the definitions of words. clearly he didn't participate in any sacraments or do any kind of great deeds to 'earn' his way into the kingdom - nor did he point to any supposed merit in himself. he believed in his heart, confessed with his mouth, and putting his trust in Christ, sought his grace. that is enough
-
2
-
1
-
1
- Show all
you aren’t understanding what I’m saying , I agree no sinners are going to inherit the kingdom of God . We’re agreed at that point .
“The law and the prophets were until John:
since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
Luke 16:16 KJV
Moses covenant his law is not the kingdom of God it is a separate different covenant for an entirely different purpose and people.
the law of Moses is for these people which you have understood aren’t going to inherit the kingdom of God.
“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.”
1 Timothy 1:9-11 KJV
Some further points to consider about the law of Moses it was not from the beginning it was added later after the promise of the gospel was made , because of mans sin , and was intended until the seed of promise came forth .
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
Galatians 3:19 KJV
The law can justify no one because it’s not of faith
“But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:11-12 KJV
The laws purpose is to hold guilty all sinners before God which is all people. Again seeing here that it justifies no
One and further that the righteousness of God came in Christ apart from the law .
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
Romans 3:19-23 KJV
I could continue with repetitive scripture saying the same things but if it isn’t helping you understand I will just leave it here and thank you for your time and thoughts
We have to go to Jesus and his doctrine to receive the promises of the kingdom and hear his call to repentance and receive that new heart and spirit that God was always promising to make in the promised New Testament
“This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”
1 Timothy 1:15 KJV
the law produces sinners who know they are condemned , and then they see the savior and hear the words of salvation
it is called the law of Moses because Moses interceded when God had decided to destroy the people
“The law and the prophets were until John:
since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
Luke 16:16 KJV
Moses covenant his law is not the kingdom of God it is a separate different covenant for an entirely different purpose and people.
the law of Moses is for these people which you have understood aren’t going to inherit the kingdom of God.
“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.”
1 Timothy 1:9-11 KJV
Some further points to consider about the law of Moses it was not from the beginning it was added later after the promise of the gospel was made , because of mans sin , and was intended until the seed of promise came forth .
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
Galatians 3:19 KJV
The law can justify no one because it’s not of faith
“But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:11-12 KJV
The laws purpose is to hold guilty all sinners before God which is all people. Again seeing here that it justifies no
One and further that the righteousness of God came in Christ apart from the law .
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
Romans 3:19-23 KJV
I could continue with repetitive scripture saying the same things but if it isn’t helping you understand I will just leave it here and thank you for your time and thoughts
We have to go to Jesus and his doctrine to receive the promises of the kingdom and hear his call to repentance and receive that new heart and spirit that God was always promising to make in the promised New Testament
“This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”
1 Timothy 1:15 KJV
the law produces sinners who know they are condemned , and then they see the savior and hear the words of salvation
it is called the law of Moses because Moses interceded when God had decided to destroy the people
by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified
(Hebrews 10:14)
“And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;”
Hebrews 5:9 KJV
it leaves out all of the understanding .
is positionally perfect meaning “ no matter what I do I’m already saved and can never lose my salvation?”
I was wondering about the phrase there what it was meaning. My point in the discussion with him was the blood is surely our atonement , but the word is surely our salvation.
the covenant in other words Gods word spoken by the mediator , and his blood shed for remission of transgression under the Old Testament law.
“And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.”
Hebrews 9:15
we have a mediator who spoke that is enjoined to his blood. The blood is essential but has no redeeming value when we remove or despise the word of the covenant. If we ignore the gospel and Jesus call To repentance The blood will condemn us
“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”
Hebrews 10:26-29 KJV
the difference is the doctrine of Moses v the doctrine of Christ one is designed to destroy us and bring us down , the other is meant to save those people who don’t pretend they are sinless and instead acknowledge and repent of thier sins , following the lord and his gospel