By Works

[throughfaith]

James 1

My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces [a]patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

So then, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath; 20 for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God.

Therefore lay aside all filthiness and [d]overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.

22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

26 If anyone [e]among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless. 27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

remember folks, this is written to jews only. Has no bearing on the gentile church

Whos the author writing to ? 1¶James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. All of the bible is for us but not ALL of the bible is to us .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Whos the author writing to ? 1¶James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

So your saying non of those things relate to us?

james is one of the earliest books written, and he wrote to the church which at the time composed only of his natural brothers, and he wrote a special letter to them because he loved the, plus he was the apostle to them as paul was the apostle to the gentiles

everything James wrote relates to us, even chapter 2 where James is fighting the same licentious disease that Jude fraught, people who claimed to have faith but were hearers of the word not doers, paul also had to fight some of this although his word focused mormon legalism, its why the appear to contradict even though they do not

 

[throughfaith]

So your saying non of those things relate to us?

james is one of the earliest books written, and he wrote to the church which at the time composed only of his natural brothers, and he wrote a special letter to them because he loved the, plus he was the apostle to them as paul was the apostle to the gentiles

everything James wrote relates to us, even chapter 2 where James is fighting the same licentious disease that Jude fraught, people who claimed to have faith but were hearers of the word not doers, paul also had to fight some of this although his word focused mormon legalism, its why the appear to contradict even though they do not

I didn't say that none of the book is to us or for us did I? I said not ALL OF THE BIBLE IS TO US Who is James writing to ?

 

[throughfaith]

So your saying non of those things relate to us?

james is one of the earliest books written, and he wrote to the church which at the time composed only of his natural brothers, and he wrote a special letter to them because he loved the, plus he was the apostle to them as paul was the apostle to the gentiles

everything James wrote relates to us, even chapter 2 where James is fighting the same licentious disease that Jude fraught, people who claimed to have faith but were hearers of the word not doers, paul also had to fight some of this although his word focused mormon legalism, its why the appear to contradict even though they do not

Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

What does that have to do with James. He as an apostle if the Jews is not allowed writing a letter to his people?

I take it you think Paul’s letters do not relate to Christian jews Because gis letters were written to Gentile Churches?

 

[Locoponydirtman]

So not grace base salvation but love base salvation?

Say you have plenty of food and water, the poor thirsty ask water
And you say, I am not believe in work base salvation, If I am not give you water I still save anyway. Than you say, Sorry poor man I love you but I am not going to give you water, I pay for It.
Base oN love base salvation you save

Base oN Jesus teaching salvation ?

Read what Jesus base salvation
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

Oh No, jesus not fair, I only not give water because I pay for It, and you put me to everlasting fire


I love him, don't you believe in love base salvation?

Oh, get off the gas man. What if a cow did jump over the moon?
Salvation by works has created the worst form of license to sin.
Yeah, man I do all the stuff and things, so what if I'm a self-righteous, bitter, hateful, greedy, abusive, monster.
Salvation is by grace alone, receiving this grace plants compassion, and mercy in a person, so that when you see some thirsty soul you give them water. You're mistaking the production of fruit with working. I find it to be no work at all to give food or water to some one who needs it, or to help someone struggling with something.

 

[throughfaith]

What does that have to do with James. He as an apostle if the Jews is not allowed writing a letter to his people?

I take it you think Paul’s letters do not relate to Christian jews Because gis letters were written to Gentile Churches?

His people ? Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
phil 3
3For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7¶But what things were gain to me, those I COUNTED LOSS for Christ.

 

[throughfaith]

The subject of faith, works, and salvation is a huge subject of which there are many facets and many different angles. One issue is how a person defines the words that he uses.

The word salvation to some means primarily initial salvation - the new birth. To others the word salvation begins at the new birth and continues through one's life and culminates in eternal and final salvation in heaven. In my understanding and what I am wanting to see in this thread, I am using salvation more in the second sense.

The title of this thread "By works" is designed to open a discussion of how works are intertwined in this entire process of salvation.

Paul says clearly that we are not saved by works; that is clear and indisputable! The topic at hand in this thread is how do we show our faith "by our works" and how is "faith made perfect by works?" (as James says).

I think also that Paul isn't all about ' showing his faith by his works ' he's more about preaching the Gospel reaching the lost and ministering to the saints .You've got believers so caught up in ' works ' that hardly anyone is reached by the Gospel . You could line up a Christian, a jehovah witness and a mormon . The world would barely see the difference , until they speak the truth .

 

[Locoponydirtman]

If you are actually saved, you will indeed produce the fruit that so many on here call works. Those things are the product of being filled with grace you don't obtain grace by them. If you aren't inclined towards compassion for others it's probably because you haven't received grace yourself. Now just because you go and do the works that appear to be fruit does not mean you have received grace either, because you may be attempting to make God a debtor to you by leverageing his favor by doing works that outwardly appear to be fruitful like a flatterer.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

His people ? Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
phil 3
3For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7¶But what things were gain to me, those I COUNTED LOSS for Christ.

Yawn

You make an argument but it does not work

James a Jew wrote a love letter to his people

That does not mean it does not apply to us

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think also that Paul isn't all about ' showing his faith by his works ' he's more about preaching the Gospel reaching the lost and ministering to the saints .

Paul is fighting legalism. That’s why he fights works

James is fighting licentiousness. Which is why he made it
Clear People who CLAIM to have faith. But have no works (still lives like the world hearers and not doers) can that particular faith which James called mere belief, save them

The answer to a Jew a gentile an American a German a Brit. The answer is the same. No. Their faith is dead. Even demons belief. Mere belief without LIVING faith never saved anyone

I Am amazed you do not believe this and this is just for jews

 

[throughfaith]

Paul is fighting legalism. That’s why he fights works

James is fighting licentiousness. Which is why he made it
Clear People who CLAIM to have faith. But have no works (still lives like the world hearers and not doers) can that particular faith high James called mere belief, save them

The answer to a Jew a gentile an American a German a Brit. The answer is the same. No. Their faith is dead. Even demons belief. Mere belief without LIVING faith never saved anyone

I Am amazed you do not believe this and this is just for jews

I haven't said the whole book of James is only for the 12 tribes have i?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I haven't said the whole book of James is only for the 12 tribes have i?

Oh so now your back peddling

Can you answer my question was I wrong about a dead faith being unable to save. A mere belief which is no better than the belief of demons? A non living dead faith which is no faith at all?

Or do you believe someone can recite a sinners prayer with no faith go live however they want and make it to heaven?

 

[throughfaith]

Oh so now your back peddling

Can you answer my question was I wrong about a dead faith being unable to save. A mere belief which is no better than the belief of demons? A non living dead faith which is no faith at all?

Or do you believe someone can recite a sinners prayer with no faith go live however they want and make it to heaven?

what do you mean by a 'dead faith being unable to save ? save who ? from what ? And doesnt it say the demons believe in 'one 'God ?.

 

[Chester]

I think also that Paul isn't all about ' showing his faith by his works ' he's more about preaching the Gospel reaching the lost and ministering to the saints .You've got believers so caught up in ' works ' that hardly anyone is reached by the Gospel . You could line up a Christian, a jehovah witness and a mormon . The world would barely see the difference , until they speak the truth .

Paul wrote a lot about works - read Ephesians 4-6 for example. Of course he is also about reaching the lost as you say. But the Gospel/salvation is not a separate issue from works and Christian living. If you separate the two you lose the salt and the light!
A true believer who is "caught up in works" will be the greatest missionary and evangelist around!

If you line up the Christians I know alongside a JW and a Mormon, the differences are so obvious and glaring. The believer is alive, is vivacious, is real, and is full of love, kindness, and courage!

 

[throughfaith]

what do you mean by a 'dead faith being unable to save ? save who ? from what ? And doesnt it say the demons believe in 'one 'God ?.

Where does it say anything about someone reciting the sinners prayer with a dead faith . Separate issue but I believe it takes a little faith to believe the Gospel . Terms like ' lively faith ' ' active faith ' ect are misleading . This comes from the idea that God has to gift someone faith to believe.

 

[Chester]

What do you make of these verses ?
eph 4 .30
30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption ?

It seems in the context to be speaking about how we should not "make sad" (grieve) the Spirit by how we speak.

Ephesians 4:29,30: Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

 

[throughfaith]

Paul wrote a lot about works - read Ephesians 4-6 for example. Of course he is also about reaching the lost as you say. But the Gospel/salvation is not a separate issue from works and Christian living. If you separate the two you lose the salt and the light!
A true believer who is "caught up in works" will be the greatest missionary and evangelist around!

If you line up the Christians I know alongside a JW and a Mormon, the differences are so obvious and glaring. The believer is alive, is vivacious, is real, and is full of love, kindness, and courage!

Yes 'works ' preaching the Gospel , ministering to the saints ect . which those fighting for 'works ' barely do .

 

[throughfaith]

It seems in the context to be speaking about how we should not "make sad" (grieve) the Spirit by how we speak.

Ephesians 4:29,30: Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Do you see how long we are sealed for ? its to glorification. We cannot be lost .

 

[Chester]

Yes we see this in the epistles that we should preach to all . And it depends on what verse you mean. Do we follow everything Jesus said to the disciples? of course not .
5¶These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
Mat 10.6

I take Jesus' words to the disciples (Great Commission) for us today. All of his communication (including what you quote above) with the disciples was given for our learning and for our example. The Sermon on the Mount, for example, can be taken as Jesus' words for us today.

And so James was written to the "twelve tribes" scattered abroad. It becomes clear from the epistle that this is written primarily to believers (Jewish), and so the truths that Paul writes to them are direct truths for all believers as well.

That is my view.