Baptism: is it required to be baptized in water?

[DiscipleDave]

b...,

The Bble commands it.

What are you following to conclude that?

Scriptures commands us to be baptized.

There is water Baptism that John the Baptist started.
There is Holy Ghost Baptism that Jesus Christ started.
There is even a Baptism for the dead.

Which of the above baptism do you think is required for one to be Saved?

Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

ONE Baptism, Which One do you think this is referring to. Holy Ghost Baptism, Water Baptism, Baptism for the dead?

Water baptism DOES NOT CHANGE YOUR HEART. Holy Ghost Baptism does.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[joefizz]

Peter commanded Cornelius and those who had already received the Holy Spirit to be water baptized. How many people have YOU baptized as per the command of JESUS?

I don't need to look up the word "conjecture" to know what it means. Shame on you for saying claims of Holy Spirit baptism are conjecture. Holy Spirit baptism was affirmed in all four gospels, as well as the book of Acts. Do you look at all of Scripture as being conjecture, esoteric, general and abstract?

Seems to be a lot of "doubting" the Holy Spirit going on as well as this word "conjecture" if someone doesn't believe in the Holy spirit or the Holy spirit dwelling in someone,why not just say so or better yet talk with atheists instead of hanging around here where many "do believe" in the Holy spirit and the change from receiving the Holy spirit!?

 

[DJ2]

Scriptures commands us to be baptized.

There is water Baptism that John the Baptist started.
There is Holy Ghost Baptism that Jesus Christ started.
There is even a Baptism for the dead.

Which of the above baptism do you think is required for one to be Saved?

Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

ONE Baptism, Which One do you think this is referring to. Holy Ghost Baptism, Water Baptism, Baptism for the dead?

Water baptism DOES NOT CHANGE YOUR HEART. Holy Ghost Baptism does.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

We are commanded to repent, we are commanded to be water baptized. If we do we are promised the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

If Holy Spirit baptism is the one baptism, why are so many still being water baptized?

 

[DJ2]

Seems to be a lot of "doubting" the Holy Spirit going on as well as this word "conjecture" if someone doesn't believe in the Holy spirit or the Holy spirit dwelling in someone,why not just say so or better yet talk with atheists instead of hanging around here where many "do believe" in the Holy spirit and the change from receiving the Holy spirit!?

If you believe someone is doubting the Holy Spirit you should point that out to them, doubting the Holy Spirit is a serious matter. Suggesting they speak to atheists is unwise advice. On the issue of the use of "conjecture" you may have meant me. I used it to describe the process that many here on CC use to decide the validity of personal claims of Holy Spirit baptism. Check out the thread "Are Holy Spirit baptisms claims provable?

 

[DJ2]

Actually, the thief was Holy Ghost Baptized before he said what he did to Jesus. Consider the Scriptures:

Mat 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God. The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.

There were only two thieves crucified with Him, so then according to this inspired by God verses above, BOTH of them, at the first, were saying things against Jesus Christ. Something changed in one of them, After this point, a change of heart, then we see one of them saying:

Luk 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged (continued to) railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

So then at the first Both were railing on Him. The heart in one of them was changed. And we KNOW that this particular thief had the Holy Ghost the moment he called Jesus "Lord" For it written:

1Co_12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Therefore the man on the cross which called Jesus "Lord" was indeed already baptized by the Holy Ghost, His heart was changed in him. The thief on the cross was indeed Baptized. NOT water Baptized, but Holy Ghost Baptized, which is a requirement for one to be Saved.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Using the thief on the cross as a teaching tool on baptism is unwise.

It would be an assumption to label him baptized or not baptized. The scriptures are silent on the issue. It is possible that he was baptized by John the Baptist or his followers (Mark 1:4)during the years before his death. He could have been baptized by the apostles during the years of Jesus walking among the common people (John 4:1-2). It would simply be an assumption either way.

The same can be said for any claim of Holy Spirit baptism while the thief was on the cross. Your use of 1 Cor. 12:3 is strictly conjecture. There is nothing supernatural in the ability to call Jesus "Lord". Jesus Himself stated that there would be some who would cry out "Lord, Lord" (Matt. 7:22) but not be accepted by Him. There is nothing in the scriptures that proves the thief on the cross was or was not baptized, water or Holy Spirit.

 

[preston39]

You really have to ask?

Baptism doesn’t make faith possible. Faith is already established prior to receiving water baptism.

Yeah right. That statement is the epitome of irony. I back up my arguments with scripture. All you do is make wise cracks because you have no rebuttal. I conclude.

m...,

Wrong...again;

Satan has faith in Christ...has he repented...has he been baptized...has he received the Holy Spirit...is he righteous. I doubt it.

You may wish to study The Bible for intent also before concluding......as I mentioned before.

Stick in there you will get it..prayerfully.

 

[mailmandan]

m...,

Wrong...again;

Satan has faith in Christ...has he repented...has he been baptized...has he received the Holy Spirit...is he righteous. I doubt it.

You may wish to study The Bible for intent also before concluding......as I mentioned before.

Stick in there you will get it..prayerfully.

Actually, it's you who is wrong again. In James 2:19, we see that the demons (along with Satan) believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. They do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved (Acts 16:31).

The Bible says we are justified by faith (Romans 5:1) and saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8). Does that include Satan? I didn't think so. Mere mental assent belief in Christ is not saving faith in Christ.

 

[preston39]

Actually, it's you who is wrong again. In James 2:19, we see that the demons (along with Satan) believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. They do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved (Acts 16:31).

The Bible says we are justified by faith (Romans 5:1) and saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8). Does that include Satan? I didn't think so. Mere mental assent belief in Christ is not saving faith in Christ.

m...,

That attempt at spin won't work.

 

[Donmech]

Actually, it's you who is wrong again. In James 2:19, we see that the demons (along with Satan) believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. They do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved (Acts 16:31).

The Bible says we are justified by faith (Romans 5:1) and saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8). Does that include Satan? I didn't think so. Mere mental assent belief in Christ is not saving faith in Christ.

Mailmandan,
It has been my experience that debating those who are in the baptismal regeneration camp can be somewhat, wearisome. They are very dogmatic concerning their theology and will do back flips over plain clear scripture in order to arrive at their baptismal regeneration theology. They cant grasp the idea that salvation only comes to those who come to Christ with a humble spirit, understanding the depravity of their condition before a Holy God and throw themselves at his mercy. They cant or will not except that salvation rest solely on the finished work of Christ. Any addition to grace on our part whether it be good works, our righteousness or even obedience when done to obtain or gain salvation perverts the gospel. Debating may open the door to truth occasionally, however, I fear that often resentment and unwillingness to consider truth is lost, while being witty rather than biblically sound seems to fuel the conversation. Maybe its better to just present the gospel and move on and let the power of the word of God work in their harts.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

Scriptures commands us to be baptized.

There is water Baptism that John the Baptist started.
There is Holy Ghost Baptism that Jesus Christ started.
There is even a Baptism for the dead.

Which of the above baptism do you think is required for one to be Saved?

Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

ONE Baptism, Which One do you think this is referring to. Holy Ghost Baptism, Water Baptism, Baptism for the dead?

Water baptism DOES NOT CHANGE YOUR HEART. Holy Ghost Baptism does.

We are commanded to repent, we are commanded to be water baptized.

i know there are verses which command we are to be baptized, but which verse teaches as you are now, that we are commanded to be water baptized? NONE. is the correct answer.

If we do we are promised the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

let us quote Acts 2:38 and see if it commands WATER baptism?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Holy Ghost baptized or water baptized, it does not say now does it? Also who gets the Holy Ghost according to Scriptures:

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Did you catch that, those who Obey Him, get the Holy Ghost. And what does He command from us? Love One Another.

i see, Those who Obey Jesus Christ are they that receive the Holy Ghost. No wander very few in this generation actually has the Holy Ghost, for who does what Jesus Commands "Love One Another"?

If Holy Spirit baptism is the one baptism, why are so many still being water baptized?

For the same reason Jesus got baptized, to fulfill all righteousness. Does a person have to be water baptized to be SAVED? NO. Did Jesus have to be water baptized to be SAVED? NO.

Again, as i have said, Everyone should get water baptized if they are able to do so, but it is NOT a requirement for one to be SAVED.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[Nehemiah6]

let us quote Acts 2:38 and see if it commands WATER baptism?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Holy Ghost baptized or water baptized, it does not say now does it? Also who gets the Holy Ghost according to Scriptures

There's no need to confuse water baptism with the baptism of the Holy Ghost in this passage or any other. The baptism of the Holy Ghost is SUPERNATURAL, and in fact "you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" is simply another way to state the same truth. But when Peter said "Repent and be baptized every one of you" he was speaking of water baptism and that is confirmed in verse 41. It is further confirmed in Acts 10, so to quibble about water baptism is not conducive to the truth. As you go through the book of Acts, you find people getting saved and baptized by immersion over and over again. Because it is A COMMANDMENT of the Lord, "even unto the end of the age (world)".

 

[DiscipleDave]

Using the thief on the cross as a teaching tool on baptism is unwise.

It would be an assumption to label him baptized or not baptized. The scriptures are silent on the issue. It is possible that he was baptized by John the Baptist or his followers (Mark 1:4)during the years before his death. He could have been baptized by the apostles during the years of Jesus walking among the common people (John 4:1-2). It would simply be an assumption either way.

The same can be said for any claim of Holy Spirit baptism while the thief was on the cross. Your use of 1 Cor. 12:3 is strictly conjecture. There is nothing supernatural in the ability to call Jesus "Lord". Jesus Himself stated that there would be some who would cry out "Lord, Lord" (Matt. 7:22) but not be accepted by Him. There is nothing in the scriptures that proves the thief on the cross was or was not baptized, water or Holy Spirit.

Here is what is undisputed. There is ONLY one baptism that SAVES a person.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

This is also undisputed There are different baptisms:

Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Did you catch that? TWO different baptism being mentioned here. The following verse is baptism for the dead.

1Co_15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

so Three different Baptisms. Which ONE Baptism is required for one to be SAVED? You do error if you say anything other than Holy Ghost baptized. Anyone can get water baptized and still not be SAVED, an Atheist can be water baptized. A person who teaches that you MUST be water baptized to be SAVED, is likewise teaching that believing ONLY is NOT enough to be SAVED. Again, an Atheist can be water baptized and still be an atheist. But an Atheist that is Holy Ghost baptized, will no longer be an atheist after that baptism.
Water baptism is symbolic to testify that you have been cleaned by God.
Holy Ghost baptism is when you are no longer the same person you were before, your heart has been changed.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

There's no need to confuse water baptism with the baptism of the Holy Ghost in this passage or any other. The baptism of the Holy Ghost is SUPERNATURAL, and in fact "you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" is simply another way to state the same truth. But when Peter said "Repent and be baptized every one of you" he was speaking of water baptism and that is confirmed in verse 41. It is further confirmed in Acts 10, so to quibble about water baptism is not conducive to the truth. As you go through the book of Acts, you find people getting saved and baptized by immersion over and over again. Because it is A COMMANDMENT of the Lord, "even unto the end of the age (world)".

Tell me, Which baptism is being referred to in these verses?

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Which baptism is that? Holy Ghost baptism or water baptism?

The Apostle Paul himself was never water baptized. So which one do you think Paul was referring to? Click HERE to read the article which claims he was never water baptized.
If water baptism is required, who baptized John the Baptist? Even John said to Jesus "I have need to be baptized of thee" talking about the HOLY GHOST baptism, the ONE BAPTISM that is required for one to be Saved. What John did not realize though, is that he was already Holy Ghost baptized before he was even born (Luk 1:15). Just as John did not realize he was Elias.

To get Saved, you must confess, repent, and believe that Jesus is the Son of God, died and rose again. This is ALL that is required for one to GET SAVED. And Scriptures absolutely confirms that. The moment you call Jesus Christ your "Lord" you are Holy Ghost baptized. For it is plainly written :

1Co_12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

So the moment a person says "I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior" they could not so without the Holy Ghost. So they are baptized by the Holy Ghost the moment they call Jesus "Lord" and it is also at that moment that their name is written in the Book of Life. Now that they are SAVED, they should Love One Another, feed the hungry, give to the poor, pray for one another, get water baptized, all things to fulfill all righteousness.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[KelbyofGod]

When Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven." Luke 5:20

Magenta,
This isn't an argument point... I just wanted to show that forgiveness and remission are not the same thing.
Matthew 18:23-35 shows that Forgiveness can be revoked. Please take the time to read the passage again.

Whereas John 13:4-11 is actually showing that remission (the washing away accomplished by baptism) stays accomplished...although a person can re-dirty their feet by walking in sin... and that additional sin also MUST be washed away...but not by the same mechanism (he didn't have them get re-baptized).

I am trusting that you'll take this stuff to prayer rather than to just rely on what your brain tells you.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

The Apostle Paul himself was never water baptized.

DiscipleDave

Are you forgetting Paul's own account of what happened when Annanias came to testify to him? Do you suggest he refused the instructions given to him by Annanias? BTW, I decided not to address WHEN the baptism of the Holy Ghost happens (in this posting) but I'd be glad to discuss it with you if you're willing.


Act 22:6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
Act 22:7 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 22:8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
Act 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
Act 22:10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
Act 22:11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
Act 22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
Act 22:13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
Act 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
Act 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Nehemiah6]

Tell me, Which baptism is being referred to in these verses?

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Which baptism is that? Holy Ghost baptism or water baptism?

There's no need to pull verses out of context to prove your point. There are many Scriptures which speak of water baptism and some which speak of the baptism with the Holy Spirit (as quoted above). Neither group cancels out other since BOTH baptisms are necessary -- one for salvation and one for obedience after salvation. So to pit water baptism against Spirit baptism is to simply creates spiritual confusion (and there is a lot of that today).

Therefore to balance out the truth, let us keep in mind these words of Christ which command water baptism (Mt 28:18-20):

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Please note "even unto the end of the world" (age). So this was not just for the apostolic period, but until before the second coming of Christ.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Apostle Paul himself was never water baptized.

This is patently FALSE and has been addressed by KelbyofGod. So DD you will have to go back to square one and start all over again with your beliefs about baptism.

 

[plaintalk]

Dave

Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3: 5) When we are baptized into Christ, we are baptized into His death. If we have died with Him, we shall live with Him. We must be baptized in both water and Spirit.
God bless.

 

[notuptome]

Are you forgetting Paul's own account of what happened when Annanias came to testify to him? Do you suggest he refused the instructions given to him by Annanias? BTW, I decided not to address WHEN the baptism of the Holy Ghost happens (in this posting) but I'd be glad to discuss it with you if you're willing.


Act 22:6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
Act 22:7 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 22:8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
Act 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
Act 22:10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
Act 22:11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
Act 22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
Act 22:13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
Act 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
Act 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Why do you assume that Paul's baptism here is water? Does water baptism wash away sin? If water can wash away sin why did Jesus shed His blood on the cross of Calvary?

Why call on the name of the Lord in water baptism?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Nehemiah6]

Why do you assume that Paul's baptism here is water? Does water baptism wash away sin? If water can wash away sin why did Jesus shed His blood on the cross of Calvary?

That assumption is correct. When Ananias said "and wash away thy sins" he was implying that as Paul was being baptized externally, the blood of Christ would be washing away his sins internally.

If Ananias was not referring to water baptism there would have been no need to say "arise", since the baptism of the Holy Spirit can occur whether a person is sitting, lying down, or standing. But Paul was asked to rise up so that he could be taken to the place where there was water and be baptized forthwith.