Attacks on the Rapture: a popular pastime among some Christians
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After about sixty years of studying these things and speaking with others of them I realized that the quickest way to convey something is to ask a question. That way they would think it through and thinking things over usually will end in understanding. People are quite proud and so they resist others telling them something but if they figure it out themselves and they tell you then they feel more comfortable with it but thank you for your explanation.
By deceive us anymore do you mean the nations? https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/20-3.htm
Yes to be used in a one time outward demonstration of a work that has been finished from before the foundation of the world. His corrupted flesh (DNA) did not profit. It was the unseen work of the father pouring out His Spirit of corrupted flesh that did profit , We walk by faith the unseen. God is not a man.
I would say all the nations . Joel's promise had come. God revealing he has always been the God of all nations. Satan was bound from deceiving in that way. Not bound from not deceiving in every way. (impossible)
That will not happen until the new order is established in the heavens and earth. There will be no temple there or night .The glory of God will be the light .
Until the the spirit of lies will be working in the heart of corrupted mankind.
That will not happen until the new order is established in the heavens and earth. There will be no temple there or night .The glory of God will be the light .
Until the the spirit of lies will be working in the heart of corrupted mankind.
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Being bound now the spirit of error will be loosed for a short while. When the the two witnesses the law and the prophets are silenced, or killed. When men are deceived that being a believer has something to do with the Jewish nation and another temple as a abomination of desolation is again built to deceive the nations .
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If the two witnesses are present tense in what your saying then the beast in the same chapter would also be present tense if you think about it. That is the rise of that beast and the ten horns, ect. would come first and they would then set their affairs in order and by that time the world would already be deceived, receiving it's mark and worshiping it's image would you not think? If so then this would no longer be the millennial,but rather after the millennial and the nations are being deceived because this is taking place now is it not?
How do you put that seen below in Revelation chapter 11 into a present tense scenario?
Revelation 11:3-15KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Revelation 11:3-15KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
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Let me ask you,,,are the events of Revelation 11 before or after the thousand years? see revelation 19:21 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 19:19-21&version=NIV
Enjoy the conversation 
Lamso I believe the (Thousand Years) seen in Revelation 20:1-7 is a figure of speech explaining the Lord's spiritual realm of (No Literal Time) 2 Peter 3:8 one day is a thousand years (Not Literal)
This thousand years is taking place presently, and will end at the second coming, "Immediately after the tribulation"
If a tribulation saint dies (one earthly day) before the second coming, he enters this non-literal thousand year reign.
The depiction of Revelation 19:19-21 below takes place at the end of the future tribulation, when the 6th vial in Rev 16:12-14 is poured out as Rev 20:7-9 takes place, Satan is loosed to perform God's will in gathering the nations for God's "Final Judgement"
You will note below the second coming and "Final Judgement" in the Lake Of Fire, this is a parallel teaching of Rev 20:10-15
The book of Revelation is written in "Parallel" teachings of same events.
Revelation 19:19-21KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Lamso I believe the (Thousand Years) seen in Revelation 20:1-7 is a figure of speech explaining the Lord's spiritual realm of (No Literal Time) 2 Peter 3:8 one day is a thousand years (Not Literal)
This thousand years is taking place presently, and will end at the second coming, "Immediately after the tribulation"
If a tribulation saint dies (one earthly day) before the second coming, he enters this non-literal thousand year reign.
The depiction of Revelation 19:19-21 below takes place at the end of the future tribulation, when the 6th vial in Rev 16:12-14 is poured out as Rev 20:7-9 takes place, Satan is loosed to perform God's will in gathering the nations for God's "Final Judgement"
You will note below the second coming and "Final Judgement" in the Lake Of Fire, this is a parallel teaching of Rev 20:10-15
The book of Revelation is written in "Parallel" teachings of same events.
Revelation 19:19-21KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
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Enjoy the conversation
Lamso I believe the (Thousand Years) seen in Revelation 20:1-7 is a figure of speech explaining the Lord's spiritual realm of (No Literal Time) 2 Peter 3:8 one day is a thousand years (Not Literal)
This thousand years is taking place presently, and will end at the second coming, "Immediately after the tribulation"
If a tribulation saint dies (one earthly day) before the second coming, he enters this non-literal thousand year reign.
The depiction of Revelation 19:19-21 below takes place at the end of the future tribulation, when the 6th vial in Rev 16:12-14 is poured out as Rev 20:7-9 takes place, Satan is loosed to perform God's will in gathering the nations for God's "Final Judgement"
You will note below the second coming and "Final Judgement" in the Lake Of Fire, this is a parallel teaching of Rev 20:10-15
The book of Revelation is written in "Parallel" teachings of same events.
Revelation 19:19-21KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Lamso I believe the (Thousand Years) seen in Revelation 20:1-7 is a figure of speech explaining the Lord's spiritual realm of (No Literal Time) 2 Peter 3:8 one day is a thousand years (Not Literal)
This thousand years is taking place presently, and will end at the second coming, "Immediately after the tribulation"
If a tribulation saint dies (one earthly day) before the second coming, he enters this non-literal thousand year reign.
The depiction of Revelation 19:19-21 below takes place at the end of the future tribulation, when the 6th vial in Rev 16:12-14 is poured out as Rev 20:7-9 takes place, Satan is loosed to perform God's will in gathering the nations for God's "Final Judgement"
You will note below the second coming and "Final Judgement" in the Lake Of Fire, this is a parallel teaching of Rev 20:10-15
The book of Revelation is written in "Parallel" teachings of same events.
Revelation 19:19-21KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
let me ask you then if in Revelation 13:15 the ones who do not worship the image are killed are they killed spiritually or literally? https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/13-15.htm
Lets cut it to the chase
I believe "The Beast" will be a literal human man of Jewish descent
I believe Rev 13:15 is a literal event, that is a parallel to Nebuchadnezzar and the image of worship, the three and the fiery furnace.
I believe the "Two Witnesses" seen in Rev 11:1-15 will be literal prophets returned, that will bring literal plagues upon "The Beast" and his kingdom, a complete "Remake" of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt.
I believe literal nation/armies will move to Israel, and Jesus Christ will return in literal fire in final Judgement, dissolving the existing heavens and earth.
I believe "The Beast" will be a literal human man of Jewish descent
I believe Rev 13:15 is a literal event, that is a parallel to Nebuchadnezzar and the image of worship, the three and the fiery furnace.
I believe the "Two Witnesses" seen in Rev 11:1-15 will be literal prophets returned, that will bring literal plagues upon "The Beast" and his kingdom, a complete "Remake" of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt.
I believe literal nation/armies will move to Israel, and Jesus Christ will return in literal fire in final Judgement, dissolving the existing heavens and earth.
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Lets cut it to the chase
I believe "The Beast" will be a literal human man of Jewish descent
I believe Rev 13:15 is a literal event, that is a parallel to Nebuchadnezzar and the image of worship, the three and the fiery furnace.
I believe the "Two Witnesses" seen in Rev 11:1-15 will be literal prophets returned, that will bring literal plagues upon "The Beast" and his kingdom, a complete "Remake" of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt.
I believe literal nation/armies will move to Israel, and Jesus Christ will return in literal fire in final Judgement, dissolving the existing heavens and earth.
I believe "The Beast" will be a literal human man of Jewish descent
I believe Rev 13:15 is a literal event, that is a parallel to Nebuchadnezzar and the image of worship, the three and the fiery furnace.
I believe the "Two Witnesses" seen in Rev 11:1-15 will be literal prophets returned, that will bring literal plagues upon "The Beast" and his kingdom, a complete "Remake" of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt.
I believe literal nation/armies will move to Israel, and Jesus Christ will return in literal fire in final Judgement, dissolving the existing heavens and earth.
If so then those in Revelation 13:15 are not killed spiritually(don't worship the image), and so then they are killed literally by the beast,,,then also in Revelation those who do worship the image and receive the mark are already spiritually dead and so they are also killed literally in Revelation 19:21?
Then said Martha unto Jesus Lord if thou hadst been here
my brother had not died.But I know even now whatsoever
thou wilt ask of God God will give it thee. Jesus saith unto
Thy brother shall rise again Martha saith unto him I know
that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day
John 11:21-24 KJV
I posted a number of scriptures in this thread which you virtually ignored and accused me of ommision
which seems to be your favorite cliche. I did omit the one above so I bring it to your attention now because
one of your arguments appears to be that the last day can mean any one of the days mentioned
In the above passage Jesus omitted to ask Martha when she thought was the last day He also omitted
to mention a Pre Trib rapture. Actually there is more to be said about the last day/day of the lord but it would require
more time and posssibly another thread to explain it all. I expect you would ignore it anyway.
my brother had not died.But I know even now whatsoever
thou wilt ask of God God will give it thee. Jesus saith unto
Thy brother shall rise again Martha saith unto him I know
that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day
John 11:21-24 KJV
I posted a number of scriptures in this thread which you virtually ignored and accused me of ommision
which seems to be your favorite cliche. I did omit the one above so I bring it to your attention now because
one of your arguments appears to be that the last day can mean any one of the days mentioned
In the above passage Jesus omitted to ask Martha when she thought was the last day He also omitted
to mention a Pre Trib rapture. Actually there is more to be said about the last day/day of the lord but it would require
more time and posssibly another thread to explain it all. I expect you would ignore it anyway.
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Matt 25, sheep goats is a parable of the Second Coming and Great White Throne Judgement
Matthew 24, is the future abomination, great tribulation, second coming and resurrection.
1 Thess 4:14-17, is the second coming last day resurrection.
Revelation 14, second coming last day resurrection
Revelation 19 marriage supper takes place" after the second coming and final judgement seen in Rev 19
Matthew 24, is the future abomination, great tribulation, second coming and resurrection.
1 Thess 4:14-17, is the second coming last day resurrection.
Revelation 14, second coming last day resurrection
Revelation 19 marriage supper takes place" after the second coming and final judgement seen in Rev 19
Better to take one at a time.
You skipped the 2cescape verses
Said nothing about noah and lot being prejudgment dynamics
Didn't notice the gathering of rev 14 had no resurrection and it was DURING THE GT
and rev 19 has the bride in heaven WITH JESUS ...and that she is now called THE WIFE.
(Martige consumated)
Said nothing of the last supper dialog (omission of every single postrib of the bride/groom study)
So far we have basically 100% skip over of those vivid pretrib dynamics.
Ahem...omission
You skipped the 2cescape verses
Said nothing about noah and lot being prejudgment dynamics
Didn't notice the gathering of rev 14 had no resurrection and it was DURING THE GT
and rev 19 has the bride in heaven WITH JESUS ...and that she is now called THE WIFE.
(Martige consumated)
Said nothing of the last supper dialog (omission of every single postrib of the bride/groom study)
So far we have basically 100% skip over of those vivid pretrib dynamics.
Ahem...omission