Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??
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You mean those that wish to promote inequality.
Yes, Paul didn;t like or trust women... that was obvious and so made his church system hierarchical and paternal in structure when the husband of all was suppose to be the Lord.
SEE Men and women are equal thread for complete understanding
Yes, Paul didn;t like or trust women... that was obvious and so made his church system hierarchical and paternal in structure when the husband of all was suppose to be the Lord.
SEE Men and women are equal thread for complete understanding
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Im non church system oriented, I am a Christian. We are all Christians and under no local leadership when liberated by Christ.
What are you Charismatic or Pentecostal ? What church system ? I answered you, can you [please answer me, so I might know where you are coming from.
Also declare what political party you are from
And what nationality you deem Christian
Thanks
What are you Charismatic or Pentecostal ? What church system ? I answered you, can you [please answer me, so I might know where you are coming from.
Also declare what political party you are from
And what nationality you deem Christian
Thanks
Wrong, some of what Paul said about the Lord were spot on... Have discernment
When Paul was in the SPIRIT, he wrote in the SPIRIT. But his every opinion was not the Lord. He didn't say THUS SAITH THE LORD,
But even mentioned when he gave his own opinion, Corinthinians7 , you know those verses dont you. You know the ones where he told women to be quiet or shut up, stay home and ask their husbands etc
Do you allow your wife to go to an assembly with men ? Or was that Pauls opinion.
When Paul was in the SPIRIT, he wrote in the SPIRIT. But his every opinion was not the Lord. He didn't say THUS SAITH THE LORD,
But even mentioned when he gave his own opinion, Corinthinians7 , you know those verses dont you. You know the ones where he told women to be quiet or shut up, stay home and ask their husbands etc
Do you allow your wife to go to an assembly with men ? Or was that Pauls opinion.
By your logic, and the fact that I have corrected you twice, you are "an heretick", and I am to reject you. You have failed to make a sound argument, so your "admonitions" don't carry any weight.
However, while you are free to do as you choose on a personal level, Paul's words to Titus were given in the context of a pastor/teacher instructing his own flock. You are neither my pastor nor teacher, and this is a discussion forum, not a local assembly, so your attempt to apply Titus 3:10 fails as badly as your on-topic argument.
However, while you are free to do as you choose on a personal level, Paul's words to Titus were given in the context of a pastor/teacher instructing his own flock. You are neither my pastor nor teacher, and this is a discussion forum, not a local assembly, so your attempt to apply Titus 3:10 fails as badly as your on-topic argument.
You can't show any of that in the scriptures, I'll bet a pound to a penny that YOU never experienced it.
Go and check the book of Acts
There are some instances where people behaved like that but others received the gospel with joy.
Repent means simply to change your mind ... I believe in holiness, holiness comes first by grace and secondly by good teaching.
C . H. Spurgeon relates his testimony, there is nothing like any of that in it. He was a holiness preacher.
Go and check the book of Acts
There are some instances where people behaved like that but others received the gospel with joy.
Repent means simply to change your mind ... I believe in holiness, holiness comes first by grace and secondly by good teaching.
C . H. Spurgeon relates his testimony, there is nothing like any of that in it. He was a holiness preacher.
I wasn't talking about bad cops. I was talking about men that misunderstand those commandments God gave in Genesis 3.
It's interesting you consider the things God said to Adam and Eve were curses. They were perhaps a curse to them, but he was revealing to them a good chunk of his plan (which is no curse at all) he had since before creation, the salvation plan and they were part of it, always meant to be part of it.
A man that can't humble himself to the Lord is no different than a woman who can't humble herself to a man.
It's interesting you consider the things God said to Adam and Eve were curses. They were perhaps a curse to them, but he was revealing to them a good chunk of his plan (which is no curse at all) he had since before creation, the salvation plan and they were part of it, always meant to be part of it.
A man that can't humble himself to the Lord is no different than a woman who can't humble herself to a man.
I wasn't intending to write this but as I was reading the letter to Titus this morning a thought passed me by and lodged in my brain and it was this. This passage shows how much we like to misinterpret the scripture to fit our theology instead of our theology fitting in with scripture.
T|he letter says that Paul left Titus in Crete to set things in order and appoint Elders in every city. This means that things were not in order and that Elders had not been appointed in every city. Currently there are 144 cities/towns in Crete but in those days no doubt there would have been a lot fewer but even so it was a tall order to establish Elders in every town in Crete.
Please note he did not tell him to establish pastors in every city.
Paul then goes on to give Titus guidlines for the appointment of Elders. The first is "If a MAN is blameless and the HUSBAND of one WIFE, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination........"
Note a MAN and HUSBAND of one WIFE...... So where is the instruction about appointing a WOMAN who is the WIFEof one HUSBAND? It is not there because it never happened. Twenty six verses confirm that Elders were always male. So why on earth do people get a bee in their bonnet about women running churches? If it is not in scrpture, why do we try and make the scripture fit our theology instead of making our theology fit the scriptures? Not logical and not scriptural.
it goes onto say that "For a Bishop (Elder).......holding fast the faithful word as HE has been taught (not SHE has been taught), that HE may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict. ( There were false teachers in the Cretian Church).
So we have the MALE bit again and do not have the FEMALE bit again.
I wonder also how those who consider learning and study and being skilled in sound doctrine irrelevant can explain this away.
T|he letter says that Paul left Titus in Crete to set things in order and appoint Elders in every city. This means that things were not in order and that Elders had not been appointed in every city. Currently there are 144 cities/towns in Crete but in those days no doubt there would have been a lot fewer but even so it was a tall order to establish Elders in every town in Crete.
Please note he did not tell him to establish pastors in every city.
Paul then goes on to give Titus guidlines for the appointment of Elders. The first is "If a MAN is blameless and the HUSBAND of one WIFE, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination........"
Note a MAN and HUSBAND of one WIFE...... So where is the instruction about appointing a WOMAN who is the WIFEof one HUSBAND? It is not there because it never happened. Twenty six verses confirm that Elders were always male. So why on earth do people get a bee in their bonnet about women running churches? If it is not in scrpture, why do we try and make the scripture fit our theology instead of making our theology fit the scriptures? Not logical and not scriptural.
it goes onto say that "For a Bishop (Elder).......holding fast the faithful word as HE has been taught (not SHE has been taught), that HE may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict. ( There were false teachers in the Cretian Church).
So we have the MALE bit again and do not have the FEMALE bit again.
I wonder also how those who consider learning and study and being skilled in sound doctrine irrelevant can explain this away.
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scripture is sure meant to be inspirational and to guide, not seen as opinions sure
but with interpretation over the meaning and when to see a letter of the law or something that appears to take precedence over something else, ie when not following a particular passage of scripture happens. i think this occurs more often than not and plenty of passages of scripture don't normally get followed very much. ever sold all you have and give to the poor? me neither!
The new testament is not a law book comparable to lists of laws in the old covenant so we find letters instead suitable to inspire and guide but not always follow as if it were a law book?
but with interpretation over the meaning and when to see a letter of the law or something that appears to take precedence over something else, ie when not following a particular passage of scripture happens. i think this occurs more often than not and plenty of passages of scripture don't normally get followed very much. ever sold all you have and give to the poor? me neither!
The new testament is not a law book comparable to lists of laws in the old covenant so we find letters instead suitable to inspire and guide but not always follow as if it were a law book?
I only used cops as an example my friend. We could have said pastors, or car mechanics.
What I said about Adam and Eve are Biblical facts. Adam and Eve disobeyed God and because of that God had a curse on them, which of course effect all of mankind. ALL women go through birth pains because of Eves choice. Adam and Eve were only concerned with Adam and Eve at the time God spoke to them.
Of course the humility of a man and a women is the same.....but that has absolutly nothing to do with the ordination of a woman to the position of a Pastor of a church.
In fact it is the opposite!!!! That woman has NOT humbeled herself to God's Word and submitted hersel to her husband so your point is actually mute.
What I said about Adam and Eve are Biblical facts. Adam and Eve disobeyed God and because of that God had a curse on them, which of course effect all of mankind. ALL women go through birth pains because of Eves choice. Adam and Eve were only concerned with Adam and Eve at the time God spoke to them.
Of course the humility of a man and a women is the same.....but that has absolutly nothing to do with the ordination of a woman to the position of a Pastor of a church.
In fact it is the opposite!!!! That woman has NOT humbeled herself to God's Word and submitted hersel to her husband so your point is actually mute.
As a Christion Evmur.....I do not bet on anything.
Actually....I do not care what you believe about me my friend. What I post here is exactly what I have seen and experienced whther you like it or not.
REPENT = CHANGE DIRECTION! The lost man was doomed and destined for hell. He was convicted of his sin by the Holy Spirit and accepted Christ and that action cause him to change direction FROM hell to heaven which is REPENTING.
Holiness comes by the grace of God and has nothing to do with good teaching. GOOD TEACHING meaning that the tongues spoken today by the AOG is not Biblical. Is that where you want to go with this conversation?????
You are basing holiness and salvation on GOOD TEACHING??????
My dear friend......you have a lot to learn don't you????
You believe in HOLINESS! “Holiness” in our tradition does not mean “Holy-Roller Pentecostalism.”. Although the Pentecostal Movement (begun in 1901) is an offshoot of the Holiness Movement, its emphasis on speaking in tongues never figured in John Wesley’s teaching nor in the birth of the Oriental Missionary Society.
Wesley’s perfection meant a perfection in love. Wesley taught that becoming a Christian launched a person on a process growth in Christian love, empowered by God’s grace, but also to be pursued with vigor by the believer. “This process of sanctification…culminates in an experience of ‘pure love’ as one progresses to the place where love becomes devoid of self-interest…It is important, however, to note that this perfection was not static but dynamic, always improvable…
“Although Wesley talks about an instantaneous experience called ‘entire santification’ subsequent to (conversion), his major emphasis was the continous process of going on to perfection” .
Evmur, instead of the time you use to post such things on the internet, take the time to read the book.............
(R. G. Tuttle Jr., “John Wesley” in
Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Walter Elwell, ed., [Grand Rapids: Baker, 1984]).
Actually....I do not care what you believe about me my friend. What I post here is exactly what I have seen and experienced whther you like it or not.
REPENT = CHANGE DIRECTION! The lost man was doomed and destined for hell. He was convicted of his sin by the Holy Spirit and accepted Christ and that action cause him to change direction FROM hell to heaven which is REPENTING.
Holiness comes by the grace of God and has nothing to do with good teaching. GOOD TEACHING meaning that the tongues spoken today by the AOG is not Biblical. Is that where you want to go with this conversation?????
You are basing holiness and salvation on GOOD TEACHING??????
My dear friend......you have a lot to learn don't you????
You believe in HOLINESS! “Holiness” in our tradition does not mean “Holy-Roller Pentecostalism.”. Although the Pentecostal Movement (begun in 1901) is an offshoot of the Holiness Movement, its emphasis on speaking in tongues never figured in John Wesley’s teaching nor in the birth of the Oriental Missionary Society.
Wesley’s perfection meant a perfection in love. Wesley taught that becoming a Christian launched a person on a process growth in Christian love, empowered by God’s grace, but also to be pursued with vigor by the believer. “This process of sanctification…culminates in an experience of ‘pure love’ as one progresses to the place where love becomes devoid of self-interest…It is important, however, to note that this perfection was not static but dynamic, always improvable…
“Although Wesley talks about an instantaneous experience called ‘entire santification’ subsequent to (conversion), his major emphasis was the continous process of going on to perfection” .
Evmur, instead of the time you use to post such things on the internet, take the time to read the book.............
(R. G. Tuttle Jr., “John Wesley” in
Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Walter Elwell, ed., [Grand Rapids: Baker, 1984]).