Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

[NOV25]

God cursed the serpent and the ground, not the woman. There is no command in 1 Timothy precluding a woman from pastoring; the word doesn't appear there at all. Genesis 3 does not say that the woman's nature would be contrary to her husband to rule over him, and God did not "ordain" that the husband shall rule; He spoke it as a terrible consequence of sin; not that the husband is supposed to rule, but that he would, as a result of his sinfulness.

Nowhere in Scripture is a command given to person "B" which is directly applicable to person "A". If God had commanded men to rule their wives, He would have said to Adam, "You shall rule over her", rather than to Eve, "He shall rule over you."

1 Timothy 2:12-15

[12] I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. [13] For Adam was formed first, then Eve; [14] and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. [15] Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
Notice the link Paul makes to Gen. 3? Perhaps you should start back at the beginning @Dino246, you seemed to have missed some things.

 

[Jordan]

1 Timothy 2:12-15

[12] I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. [13] For Adam was formed first, then Eve; [14] and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. [15] Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
Notice the link Paul makes to Gen. 3? Perhaps you should start back at the beginning @Dino246, you seemed to have missed some things.

Yes, Pauls teaching reins and rules today, even though Jesus set the captives free.

 

[Jordan]

This is one reason why the biggest church in the world has been able to expand grow and indocrinate sooo many people and women. Because they are woman oriented. The Catholic Church System

They are like mobsters, the mobs wifes are church oriented and supposedly holy while they dont give a darn, what and how their husbands get their money.

Similarly feminism went off track when women and the dark side wanted to believe men were devils and inferior, using the same logic or lack therefof as the mens machoism

Dont be so fearful men, and obey the Lord and listen to whomever is in the SPIRIT

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

1 Timothy 2:12-15

[12] I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. [13] For Adam was formed first, then Eve; [14] and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. [15] Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
Notice the link Paul makes to Gen. 3? Perhaps you should start back at the beginning @Dino246, you seemed to have missed some things.

Not only Timothy, but it's further expounded upon with Paul in 1 Corinthians 11. And I have noticed, in general, when pointing to Paul for any edification on various doctrinal points, people who are in rebellion will dispute and refer to Peter admonishing those who wish to obey the scriptures that we can't rely on our understanding of Paul's epistles because they're difficult.

 

[Dino246]

1 Timothy 2:12-15

[12] I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. [13] For Adam was formed first, then Eve; [14] and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. [15] Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
Notice the link Paul makes to Gen. 3? Perhaps you should start back at the beginning @Dino246, you seemed to have missed some things.

I am well aware of the link to Genesis 3. I am also aware that Paul does not refer to verse 16 of Genesis 3. You, in turn, have not accounted at all for the structure and context of the Genesis passage and instead have drawn conclusions that run contrary to it.

 

[Dino246]

Not only Timothy, but it's further expounded upon with Paul in 1 Corinthians 11. And I have noticed, in general, when pointing to Paul for any edification on various doctrinal points, people who are in rebellion will dispute and refer to Peter admonishing those who wish to obey the scriptures that we can't rely on our understanding of Paul's epistles because they're difficult.

You're making a circular argument, interpreting Genesis from your interpretation of Paul's words. There's a reason Genesis comes first; it is foundational.

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

You're making a circular argument, interpreting Genesis from your interpretation of Paul's words. There's a reason Genesis comes first; it is foundational.

You like the phrase "circular argument." I'm not making any argument, however. The bible is in context with itself. You compare scripture with scripture for fuller understanding.

As for circular, well, what's more complete than a circle? Starting at point A and traversing around picking up knowledge and understanding along the way to return to and understand more perfectly point A.

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

I am well aware of the link to Genesis 3. I am also aware that Paul does not refer to verse 16 of Genesis 3. You, in turn, have not accounted at all for the structure and context of the Genesis passage and instead have drawn conclusions that run contrary to it.

When you have a direct statement like "I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man ..." I'm wondering where on earth you get the exact opposite conclusion that it is permissible for a woman to teach and hold authority over a man.

I'm sure you'll come up with a convoluted reply. I don't know that it will be very edifying though.

 

[NOV25]

I am well aware of the link to Genesis 3. I am also aware that Paul does not refer to verse 16 of Genesis 3. You, in turn, have not accounted at all for the structure and context of the Genesis passage and instead have drawn conclusions that run contrary to it.

1 Timothy 2:11-15

[11] Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. [12] I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. [13] For Adam was formed first, then Eve; [14] and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. [15] Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
- - -
Genesis 3:16
[16] To the woman he said,

“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children.
Your desire shall be contrary to your husband,
but he shall rule over you.”

Oops @Dino246 wrong again. I repeat, perhaps you should start at the beginning (Gen. 1:1) seems you’ve missed some things. In the mean time you should refrain from teaching on things you don’t understand. A woman is not permitted to be in a teaching (pastoral) role.

 

[Dino246]

You like the phrase "circular argument." I'm not making any argument, however. The bible is in context with itself. You compare scripture with scripture for fuller understanding.

As for circular, well, what's more complete than a circle? Starting at point A and traversing around picking up knowledge and understanding along the way to return to and understand more perfectly point A.

I strongly suggest that you look up the term, “circular reasoning”. It’s a logical fallacy and in almost every case, invalidates your assertion.

 

[Dino246]

1 Timothy 2:11-15

[11] Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. [12] I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. [13] For Adam was formed first, then Eve; [14] and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. [15] Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
- - -
Genesis 3:16
[16] To the woman he said,

“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children.
Your desire shall be contrary to your husband,
but he shall rule over you.”

Oops @Dino246 wrong again. I repeat, perhaps you should start at the beginning (Gen. 1:1) seems you’ve missed some things. In the mean time you should refrain from teaching on things you don’t understand. A woman is not permitted to be in a teaching (pastoral) role.

You still have not demonstrated any connection between 1 Timothy 2 and Genesis 3:16.

Save the snarky comments for someone who is impressed by them.

 

[Dino246]

When you have a direct statement like "I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man ..." I'm wondering where on earth you get the exact opposite conclusion that it is permissible for a woman to teach and hold authority over a man.

I'm sure you'll come up with a convoluted reply. I don't know that it will be very edifying though.

I have explained my view already. Whether you accept it doesn’t concern me.

 

[EnglishChick]

The Bible transcends all cultural and time constraints. What every person should clearly note is that Paul was writing his epistles by divine inspiration (as confirmed by himself and Peter). So while Paul said that in the Body of Christ (the Church) all distinctions have been abolished, in the home and in the local church (assembly) men and women have DISTINCT AND SEPARATE ROLES.

Thus women are excluded from preaching, teaching, or having any authority over men within the local church. They are also commanded to be silent during church meetings for worship, and are required to also cover their heads and their hair during worship. This is not according to men, or to according to cultures, but according to God and Christ. So why is this a bitter pill to some women? The short answer: a rebellious spirit.

woman are to teach other women and children in a church setting rather than men, I understand. Obviously outside of church a woman can teach men e.g. At a college etc

Women can preach outside of church, evangelize to those around them. At work, with their children, at school, at the gym, at the nail salon etc

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

I strongly suggest that you look up the term, “circular reasoning”. It’s a logical fallacy and in almost every case, invalidates your assertion.

I gave you an opportunity to be arrogant and you took it.

 

[Dino246]

I gave you an opportunity to be arrogant and you took it.

Arrogant? Not at all. I could retort and say I gave you an opportunity to get offended, and you took it. However, that does not move us towards understanding.

I don’t think you are familiar with the term, and I don’t think you would accept my explanation of it, so I suggested some homework.

 

[NOV25]

You still have not demonstrated any connection between 1 Timothy 2 and Genesis 3:16.

Save the snarky comments for someone who is impressed by them.

God’s word is clear for those who hear His voice. 1 Timothy clearly references Gen. 3

You hear “snarky comments”, I speak Admonitions (nouthesia: calling attention to, that is by mild rebuke or warning)
Titus 3:10

 

[Major]

My scriptures from the Lord, say we eaxh are accountable. The woman can not blame the man, and the man can not blame the woman. We are suppose to obey the Lord, our husband as I mentioned...

Men are fallible, the Lord is not. Pray and ask the Lord what to do as we are e achg responsible to serve the Lord. No one can do it for us.... obey your husgand in the Lord, for we are individually bought with a price whether male por female.

But the churches like a hierarchy and tell women to keep silent even when the women could be in the SPIRIT.

Gender is not a determining factor with the Lord. Should I repeat all the scriptures I posted again, and showw they are the infallible word of GOD, that men and women are EQUAL. What part of equality dont you understand.

Again, the Lord looks at the heart not the external. Genes dont determine our submissiveness, we are suppose to be submissive to the Lord, our Master. Church people aren't full timers in most cases... thats their choice, And the church does love silence, and submission

I do not know what Scriptures you are readin as you did not post any of them. THAT would be helpful so that we could be on the same page.

The Scripture I read from the KJV makes it very clear that a husband must be a leader of his home and have healthy control of his life. 1 Timothy 3; in speaking of two church leadership positions traditionally filled by men, teaches that an Overseer and Deacon must manage their family well. Verse 5 specifically says, “If a MAN does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?”

Furthering this understanding, lets read Ephesians 5:21-24 which says,.................
“Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.”

Then Again, in 1 Corth 11:3 Scripture says,........
"But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.”

One of the primary roles of a husband in the Bible, then, is to lead. Leadership simply means influence. Therefore, a biblically-based husband should influence his family. Husbands are not dictators, they should not demand, they should not rule over their wives. Instead, husbands should influence their wives and families in accordance with biblical teaching. They should exemplify, with their voice and their actions, attributes that bring glory to God and value to their spouse and family. The fruit of a good biblically-based husband is a strong, confident, spiritually mature wife and family.

 

[Major]

I am not sure that I was asking you to do anything for me.

Then I guess the next thing to do is say.........."Goodbye"!

 

[Major]

You need to keep something in mind. When he spoke to Eve with those, he was also speaking to men. Your desire is to be for Jesus and he shall rule over you.

You are to submit to Jesus.

Likewise, you are to submit to Jesus.

There is no worldly sense of any of this other than the sign of husband and wife on earth. But, the lesson is for man, not limited to women.

This has been abused in the world for a long time. There are still men today that do not believe women should have the right to vote, inherit property or the right to hold positions of leadership in governments. And there are still men in the world that believe it's acceptable to have more than one wife. There still are men like this who do not understand those commands to Eve are also commands to them.

The only Scripture I posted which applies to Adam and Eve was in Genesis 3 which was given as the curse because of their sin.

Yes.....and there are bad cops in the police dept. and bad doctors in hospitals and so and so on.

Yes.....the husband is to be submitted to Christ but all are not!

Scriptures in Christian doctrine are for Christians and were never intended for the lost man.

 

[Jordan]

I do not know what Scriptures you are readin as you did not post any of them. THAT would be helpful so that we could be on the same page.

The Scripture I read from the KJV makes it very clear that a husband must be a leader of his home and have healthy control of his life. 1 Timothy 3; in speaking of two church leadership positions traditionally filled by men, teaches that an Overseer and Deacon must manage their family well. Verse 5 specifically says, “If a MAN does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?”

Furthering this understanding, lets read Ephesians 5:21-24 which says,.................
“Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.”

Then Again, in 1 Corth 11:3 Scripture says,........
"But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.”

One of the primary roles of a husband in the Bible, then, is to lead. Leadership simply means influence. Therefore, a biblically-based husband should influence his family. Husbands are not dictators, they should not demand, they should not rule over their wives. Instead, husbands should influence their wives and families in accordance with biblical teaching. They should exemplify, with their voice and their actions, attributes that bring glory to God and value to their spouse and family. The fruit of a good biblically-based husband is a strong, confident, spiritually mature wife and family.

Then read my posts again, and the many scriptures that are within and in KJV. If I didnt post the verse reference it can be asked of me, or looked up easily HERE

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=+there+is+neither+male+nor+female&version=KJV

Therefore edit out your opening statement., as an apology.

But Yes I agree in your church system, there is male and female and the men suppress the women, and tell them to be quiet, and don;t prophesy etc etc etc.

But such is not the case with the Lord and His women and His men.

Just push your edit button, its easy