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And anyone else who demonstrated those gifts.
That's not what I said. If anyone is experiencing those gifts, then they were obviously given to them by the Spirit.
Yeah, and how many Christians do you know who are performing those gifts? I have never known or seen anyone who has demonstrated having those gifts. Obviously the gifts are real, but many today are forcing the issue.
The teaching that every believer should have these gifts is dangerous, because it creates churches where unless they perform them, then they are deemed as not saved. So quest what?! You get churches where everyone and his brother is speaking in languages, because nobody wants to be labeled as not saved. So what you have is a bunch of people just babbling and calling it speaking in languages.
That's not what I said. If anyone is experiencing those gifts, then they were obviously given to them by the Spirit.
Yeah, and how many Christians do you know who are performing those gifts? I have never known or seen anyone who has demonstrated having those gifts. Obviously the gifts are real, but many today are forcing the issue.
The teaching that every believer should have these gifts is dangerous, because it creates churches where unless they perform them, then they are deemed as not saved. So quest what?! You get churches where everyone and his brother is speaking in languages, because nobody wants to be labeled as not saved. So what you have is a bunch of people just babbling and calling it speaking in languages.
Then I don't understand your point.
Jesus said in Mark 16:17 that those signs follow those whom believe, that would mean all Christians right? We all believe in Christ right?
Did Jesus meant what he said there? It cannot be true only for "the apostles and anyone else who demonstrated those gifts", if that is the case, it will then be a circular or tautological argument.
Jesus said in Mark 16:17 that those signs follow those whom believe, that would mean all Christians right? We all believe in Christ right?
Did Jesus meant what he said there? It cannot be true only for "the apostles and anyone else who demonstrated those gifts", if that is the case, it will then be a circular or tautological argument.
The answer to that is, since God has forgiven us for our great sins against Him, then we ought to forgive those who in comparison, have minutely sinned against us. Regarding the issue of losing ones salvation, what do you make of the following:
"My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins."
"But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes a so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
"My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins."
"But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes a so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
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And the scripture states that not everyone has the same gifts. You need to bring this into consideration. It says "those whom believe" not every one who believes. As Paul said, Do all speak in languages? Do all prophesy? Do all have gifts of healing? Everyone has their God-given gifts. Otherwise, what would your conclusion be of me if I tell you that I have never spoken in languages, I have never cast out a demon, I have never drank poison and lived, nor would I even pick up a poisonous snake to see if I was immune. 
And the scripture states that not everyone has the same gifts. You need to bring this into consideration. It says "those whom believe" not every one who believes. As Paul said, Do all speak in languages? Do all prophesy? Do all have gifts of healing? Everyone has their God-given gifts. Otherwise, what would your conclusion be of me if I tell you that I have never spoken in languages, I have never cast out a demon, I have never drank poison and lived, nor would I even pick up a poisonous snake to see if I was immune.
How does one decide which words are directed to us?
Well, I believe that first, the Spirit of God would convict you of it and move you to repent and to make things right by forgiving that person. He's not saying if one time you did not forgive someone. You can repent of that and confess it and be forgiven. But if you have a continuous unforgiving spirit, then that would be a problem.
The fruit spoken of, is believers taking on the characteristics of God's nature. As we continue from faith to faith, we are being transformed into the image of Christ, which is a life-long process, also referred to as the sanctification of the Spirit, i.e. the process of being made holy.
The fruit spoken of, is believers taking on the characteristics of God's nature. As we continue from faith to faith, we are being transformed into the image of Christ, which is a life-long process, also referred to as the sanctification of the Spirit, i.e. the process of being made holy.
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The face that you hesitate to answer my direct question with a yes or no, but rather use words like "that would be a problem", you are not really saying one can ever lose their salvation right?
I suppose what you meant by "problems", would be things will go wrong for you, you will find your prayers not answered etc etc.
But you do believe salvation cannot be lost right?
I suppose what you meant by "problems", would be things will go wrong for you, you will find your prayers not answered etc etc.
But you do believe salvation cannot be lost right?
What I am saying is that you are being rigid.
I would simply ask you the question: "have you spoken in languages by the power of the Holy Spirit? Do you have the gift of healing, where a person say has terminal cancer and God healed them through you? If not, then because you don't have those gifts, does that mean that you are not saved?
I believe that we are saved by grace through faith. That said, if one turns away from having faith, going back to living according to the sinful nature, that person has wandered from the truth and is accumulating sin and is on their way to death. However, when the Spirit makes this known to the individual and he/she repents, then those sins are covered and they are saved from death.
Salvation is conditional on having faith from first to last. If someone turns from faith, they are no longer bearing fruit and are no longer being transformed into Christ's image. Remember the following:
"Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me."
If a believer is no longer having faith, they have stopped taking up their cross
And there are many more examples like this.
I would simply ask you the question: "have you spoken in languages by the power of the Holy Spirit? Do you have the gift of healing, where a person say has terminal cancer and God healed them through you? If not, then because you don't have those gifts, does that mean that you are not saved?
I believe that we are saved by grace through faith. That said, if one turns away from having faith, going back to living according to the sinful nature, that person has wandered from the truth and is accumulating sin and is on their way to death. However, when the Spirit makes this known to the individual and he/she repents, then those sins are covered and they are saved from death.
Salvation is conditional on having faith from first to last. If someone turns from faith, they are no longer bearing fruit and are no longer being transformed into Christ's image. Remember the following:
"Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me."
If a believer is no longer having faith, they have stopped taking up their cross
And there are many more examples like this.
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I see, so you believe salvation can be lost when that saved person turns away from faith. Alright then, there are others who believe as you do, so no worries.
To answer your first question, no I don't have the gift of healing, because I regard Mark 16:16-18 as doctrine for the gospel of the kingdom, which Israel was still under in early Acts. Us gentiles were not in the picture yet.
The gospel of the kingdom, that was meant for Israel only, was always accompanied by signs and wonders, as we can see in Matthew 10:5-8
But by the time the dispensation of grace began with Paul (Ephesians 3:9), signs and wonders are fading away. They are no longer valid for the grace dispensation, which requires us to walk by faith, and not by sight. (2 Cor 5:17)
To answer your first question, no I don't have the gift of healing, because I regard Mark 16:16-18 as doctrine for the gospel of the kingdom, which Israel was still under in early Acts. Us gentiles were not in the picture yet.
The gospel of the kingdom, that was meant for Israel only, was always accompanied by signs and wonders, as we can see in Matthew 10:5-8
But by the time the dispensation of grace began with Paul (Ephesians 3:9), signs and wonders are fading away. They are no longer valid for the grace dispensation, which requires us to walk by faith, and not by sight. (2 Cor 5:17)
That's like saying "the only remedy for a stomach ache is Paul's command to drink wine."
You nor anyone else knows if one can "lose" one's salvation.
The prodigal came back (was lost and removed himself)
Paul said "suffer shipwreck"
Paul said "the last state is worse than the first"
And "I have delivered such a one over to satan..."
Osas is full of holes
You nor anyone else knows if one can "lose" one's salvation.
The prodigal came back (was lost and removed himself)
Paul said "suffer shipwreck"
Paul said "the last state is worse than the first"
And "I have delivered such a one over to satan..."
Osas is full of holes
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1) No other way to heaven except through the son.
2) Jesus died for the whole world
3) You must be born again.
.....All Jesus's teachings.
So you paulines need a little more thinking on Jesus's doctrine.
Paul said anyone teaching a different Gospel is cursed.
You guys really painted yourself into a corner.
Paul claimed to follow Jesus.
Paulines say not to.
2) Jesus died for the whole world
3) You must be born again.
.....All Jesus's teachings.
So you paulines need a little more thinking on Jesus's doctrine.
Paul said anyone teaching a different Gospel is cursed.
You guys really painted yourself into a corner.
Paul claimed to follow Jesus.
Paulines say not to.