Are the words of Jesus not for Christians?

[John146]

Matthew 24
14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the ~whole~ world as a testimony to ~all~ the nations.

And yet, Paul tells us the gospel he preached had gone out into all the world, preached to every creature, and to all nations. Clearly, it is not the same message.

Colossians 1:
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Verse 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

 

[John146]

A few times lately in this forum someone comes along and discredits what Jesus states in the gospels.


Lenna, your statement above is error. That was not what was said.

Not discredit what Jesus says, but understand his audience, the Jews under the law. Remember, all the Bible is written for us, but not all of it is written to us.

 

[John146]

May I answer with scripture?

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2nd Timothy 3:16).

So I must say that this scripture was directed to me - but maybe not for ALL points at once. But if the Author of the Book, and the Maker of the men who read it, says that ALL scripture is "profitable" ... then it is so. But if the author tells Peter that he will deny Him thrice before a cock crewed the next morning, I admit that that was not addressed to me personally for "reproof". But it was addressed to me "for instruction".

But I have a question for you. The opening verse of the four gospels tells that Jesus was seed of Abraham. And Abraham was not an Israelite. In what way is this verse NOT directed at me, seeing as Galatians 3:29 says that I have become seed of Abraham?

All Scripture is written for us, but not all is written to us.

 

[Guojing]

May I answer with scripture?

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2nd Timothy 3:16).

So I must say that this scripture was directed to me - but maybe not for ALL points at once. But if the Author of the Book, and the Maker of the men who read it, says that ALL scripture is "profitable" ... then it is so. But if the author tells Peter that he will deny Him thrice before a cock crewed the next morning, I admit that that was not addressed to me personally for "reproof". But it was addressed to me "for instruction".

But I have a question for you. The opening verse of the four gospels tells that Jesus was seed of Abraham. And Abraham was not an Israelite. In what way is this verse NOT directed at me, seeing as Galatians 3:29 says that I have become seed of Abraham?

Yes, for us, I was specifically saying "to us". All scripture is for us, but not all are written TO us, nor ABOUT us.

We are included in the unconditional covenant that God made with Abraham, which was by faith apart from works. Obviously Abraham could not be an Israelite, since they only came after Jacob, which was his grandson.

 

[EleventhHour]

All Scripture is written for us, but not all is written to us.

Agree, and so important to bear in mind.

 

[Corban]

All Scripture is written for us, but not all is written to us.

Correct. I immediately think of the Law of Moses.

Go well bro.

 

[Corban]

Yes, for us, I was specifically saying "to us". All scripture is for us, but not all are written TO us, nor ABOUT us.

We are included in the unconditional covenant that God made with Abraham, which was by faith apart from works. Obviously Abraham could not be an Israelite, since they only came after Jacob, which was his grandson.

Good. We are now in agreement. Take care bro.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What are the contents of the gospel of the kingdom that was preached to the Jews first?

The same one that is thought to the ends of the earth

 

[Ann-Marie]

[QUOTE="Deuteronomy, post: 4376901, member: 271325"]Hello again sister (@lenna), in summary, if there are members here who are trying to discredit what Jesus said by telling us that the Gospels were written for Jews alone (or if they are going even further than that by saying that the Gospels, Acts and James were written for Jews, or even "1st Century" Jews, alone), then I believe that you already know how very wrong they are (perhaps they have a presupposition that they are trying to fulfill and/or prove correct, but doing so requires that they hold such a belief about the Gospels, Acts and James?). Have they given you/us any proof that shows what they are saying is true


I have experienced the exact same thing when I posted Sermon on the Mount.
I was told " It was for the Isreaelites, not us"/ I thought is was for all.
Isn't that "The Way", the very heart of Christianity.

 

[lenna]

Here's a quote I fairly agree with, that is somewhat succinct (and pertaining to the subject of this thread):

[quoting Thomas Ice-]

"Five Parabolic Illustrations
"[re: Matt24] These parables or illustrations of Jesus are as follows: First, the fig tree illustration (24:32- 35); second, the days of Noah illustration (24:36- 39); third, a comparison of two men and women illustration (24:40- 41); fourth, the faithful house holder illustration (24:42- 44); and fifth, the wise servant illustration (24:45- 51).

"These five parables are important lessons that relate to Israel. In fact, I would go so far as to say that all the parables in the New Testament relate directly to Israel. Often they relate to Israel's rejection of Jesus as their Messiah and speak of consequences that will flow from such an act. Christ told His disciples in Matthew 13:10-17 that He would speak to "this people" (Israel) in order to blind them to the truth because of their rejection of Jesus as the Messiah. However, believers could come to understand the meaning of His parables because we are receptive of the revelation offered by Christ. Therefore, they all relate to Israel in some way, shape, or form and usually tell us something about God's plan for the future.

"The parables within the Olivet Discourse, when they speak of a coming, all relate to the second coming and not the rapture of the church. This is true because the entire Olivet Discourse was given to Israel and relates to her tribulation and Christ's return at the end of that period. Truths relating to the rapture of the church are revealed exclusively in the New Testament Epistles, which were written specifically for the purpose of explaining the intent and nature of the Church age. [...]"

--Dr Thomas Ice [commentary on Matt24-25]

[end quoting; bold, underline, and bracketed inserts mine; parentheses original]



____________

[note: I've pointed out in past posts where do I see there is one parable that is stated to be "[which is a parable] for the present time": Hebrews 9:8-9a]

I would never state everything Jesus said is directly addressed to us and that is not what I have been saying (no worries I don't mean you referring to the op. I think distinctions should be made but many here know what I am referring to cause they read it for themselves)

I agree that meanings are hidden to those with a hard heart or continually disobedient while stating otherwise and that is a principal right through both testaments

I appreciate your input

 

[lenna]

Hi Lenna, below you'll find some of the Lord's final words to us, words which were spoken by Him just prior to His Ascension (so it would seem that these would be of particular importance). If He did not want what He taught in the Gospels to reach the ears of those living in the (Gentile) Nations, He certainly had a very odd way of putting it, yes

​

Matthew 24​

14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the ~whole~ world as a testimony to ~all~ the nations.​

​

Matthew 28​

18 Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.​

19 Go therefore and make disciples of ~all~ the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,​

20 ~teaching~ them to observe ~all~ that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”​

​

Mark 16​

15 Jesus said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation."​

​

Acts 1​

8 "You will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”​

​

Acts 9​

15 The Lord said to him [Ananias], “Go, for he [Paul] is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel."​

~Deut

of course

and reading from some that we cannot be taught or doctrine cannot come from certain books such as the gospels or Acts or James really rankles those who know better

 

[lenna]

I think the entire Word of God is the Word of God... people who deny the Words of Jesus, deny Jesus..

Woe to those who deny Jesus..

All scripture is given etc

there is much to learn even from that which is not address directly to us Gentile Christians

I wonder that some pass over it or dismiss it

 

[lenna]

A few times lately in this forum someone comes along and discredits what Jesus states in the gospels.


Lenna, your statement above is error. That was not what was said.

well not really

 

[lenna]

Hello again sister (@lenna), in summary, if there are members here who are trying to discredit what Jesus said by telling us that the Gospels were written for Jews alone (or if they are going even further than that by saying that the Gospels, Acts and James were written for Jews, or even "1st Century" Jews, alone), then I believe that you already know how very wrong they are (perhaps they have a presupposition that they are trying to fulfill and/or prove correct, but doing so requires that they hold such a belief about the Gospels, Acts and James?). Have they given you/us any proof that shows what they are saying is true

BTW, the Epistle of James was addressed to the Diaspora (dispersed Jews living in the Gentile Nations), but I don't believe that there is any indication that what is taught in James' Epistle was meant for them alone If there is any evidence of this in his Epistle, I haven't seen it. Rather, what is taught in the Epistle of James seems both omnitemporal and omnicultural (IOW, its truths seem applicable to all nations, tribes and tongues throughout history).

God bless you!

~Deut

absolutely true. I have read myself what you say in your first paragraph from more than one person

yes regarding James. he even calls those to whom he writes 'believers'.. how can that be missed and folks insist it was written to unbelieving Jews as has been posted in some threads?

 

[lenna]

ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2Tim 3v16

The heretic likes to pick and choose Scripture at the expense of Scripture to support their erroneous opinions!

It'll be the Scripture that they refuse to accept that will accuse them when the Lord Jesus judges His Church (at His 2nd Coming, ps. there is no 3th coming), the Body of Christ...

people are overlooking that from the book of II Timothy. doesn't fit their paradigm I guess

we are living in an interesting and dangerous age

 

[lenna]

It seems to me that our esteemed lenna addressed two different points - both of which are valid. I'll reverse the order for ease of answering.

(1) Attack by infidels on the Person of Christ. This is shortly dispensed with by the historical fact that our Lord Jesus, His Person, His deity, His resurrection, and His very existence is always under attack. We can't stop it, but we should try to equip ourselves with solid answers. But at the end of the day, because our FAITH is based on what is NOT seen (Heb.11:1), we must expect not to convince the infidel.

this is true true true and will be till the devil himself gets his reward. Jesus is mocked, lied about, His words distorted and other immoral acts attributed to Him. their are entire plays mocking Him

(2) The opinion of some on this Forum that the contents of the Gospels is largely for Israel, or that they do not address the Christian. This is a far more subtle and dangerous attack because it comes from within our ranks and is mostly well-meaning. The answer to this threat is only slightly less simple than the first.

exactly. it is subtle and quite a few miss it. the dissenting voices are getting louder and more adamant though

Because God chose Abraham and made a Covenant with him and his SEED, God was bound by His Words to approach Israel with the Solution to all the earth's problems - Jesus Messiah. So it is true that our Lord Jesus FIRST approached Israel with the glory and benefits of (i) sin and sins being dealt with, and (ii) His coming Kingdom as promised in Daniel. One would remove the main problem that Israel faced and which had caused their crisis - sin and sins, and once that was dealt with, Israel would again be elevated to leading and invincible Nation among the nations. But you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. But by Matthew Chapter 12, our Lord Jesus had been fully rejected and accused of being the emissary of Beelzebub. The Chapter ends with our Lord Jesus severing His connection with His brethren by the flesh.


From this moment on, our Lord Jesus starts to work with a NEW assembly which He calls His DISCIPLES. And the Lord shortly reveals a NEW assembly called "The Church". The three synoptic gospels reveal the Man Jesus in His role as King, Servant and normal Man in dealing with the SAME problems that faced Israel - namely, sin and sins, and the coming Kingdom. This time though, His teaching is directed at the NEW Assembly called His DISCIPLES. The fourth gospel, that of John, reveals Christ's deity for the purpose of returning man to his first estate in Eden - eating from the Tree of Life and thus have an orgainic union with God to be equipped to be in the image and likeness of God, and to be "up to the standard of Christ" to be His Bride.

What we have on the Forum is mostly people who have not seen this. They have not lifted up like an eagle to view the grand vista of God's purpose. They, for more than one reason, very often not their fault, stayed in the multifaceted puzzle of God's divine Revelation and have to contend daily with ... a PUZZLE. The solution is that that (i) we DEBATE, and (ii) that each attempts to be honest and accepting of a logical structured argument that leads to a logical end. And when we are forced to change our mind by this honesty, that we do not let that every present PRIDE cloud our judgment.

But THAT ... the matter of pride, is almost invincible. And THAT ... is why this problem will also not be solved in our time. The last Church is Laodicea. Matters will get worse before they get better. But let the DEBATE go on. We are bound to TESTIFY.

that was some excellent teaching there, albeit in short form

thank you! I firmly believe that many are missing what you call the grand vista of God's purpose. that alone lifts a person out of the routine of daily and can put a stop to the navel gazing

 

[lenna]

And yet, Paul tells us the gospel he preached had gone out into all the world, preached to every creature, and to all nations. Clearly, it is not the same message.

the KNOWN world. clearly you are mistaken

and there are yet tribes deep in the Amazon who have not heard

and frankly, how many in the US born here but never heard. they also exist but God's omnipotent hand to deal with at this point since He knows the thoughts and intents of the heart (consciousness or soul so let's not quibble on that one since another thread recently covered it not to everyone's satisfaction)

a little perilous, to say the least, to state what you did

 

[lenna]

Not discredit what Jesus says, but understand his audience, the Jews under the law. Remember, all the Bible is written for us, but not all of it is written to us.

audience? we know that not everything said in scripture is meant as personal, but as has been quoted, ALL scripture is beneficial

those are not my words and the point or the reason for this op, is to counter the dismissing that has been going on

not all dismiss the gospels, Acts and James and state they are not for Gentiles, but those who do have not got the grasp on the whole picture they think they have and apparently think their position is somewhat superior

fine the way I see it. but for the rest of us, not so much

 

[lenna]

All Scripture is written for us, but not all is written to us.

I can agree with that the way you wrote it, but a few go much further than that

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
II Timothy 3:16

God breathed..there is alot of meaning there and all is all unless we also have folks that think some books should not be in the Bible?

 

[lenna]

[QUOTE="Deuteronomy, post: 4376901, member: 271325"]Hello again sister (@lenna), in summary, if there are members here who are trying to discredit what Jesus said by telling us that the Gospels were written for Jews alone (or if they are going even further than that by saying that the Gospels, Acts and James were written for Jews, or even "1st Century" Jews, alone), then I believe that you already know how very wrong they are (perhaps they have a presupposition that they are trying to fulfill and/or prove correct, but doing so requires that they hold such a belief about the Gospels, Acts and James?). Have they given you/us any proof that shows what they are saying is true


I have experienced the exact same thing when I posted Sermon on the Mount.
I was told " It was for the Isreaelites, not us"/ I thought is was for all.
Isn't that "The Way", the very heart of Christianity.

I have not seen any proof or I would 'repent' of my current belief. that 180 thing people point out when actually, while true, is much deeper than that

on the other hand, if you do actually change your mind, the body will follow

what I see are twisted renderings of the word or cherry picked out of context 'proof' texts

it seems the Bible is under construction or should I say destruction by far too many and by that I mean beyond this forum...way beyond

you know it's like the Israelites being told that when they dwell in the promised land they will become fat and forget their maker (synopsis). the time to prepare is like the 7 good years in Egypt...too many enter the lean years (persecution and suddenly having all their 'rights' ripped away...the response being 'how dare you'...rather than asking why before God)

we are still eating the stored corn but it is getting low