Are All Angels the Same?

[Roughsoul1991]

Because there is a serious question about whether the books you are tossing out as not to be thought about, even is true or not. If they are true, and there is reason to believe some of it is true, then it is something we can profit by knowing. If we learn what they say, it is not a sin to think about it. What they say can be checked with what we know is from the Lord, that helps us evaluate them. It is absolute foolishness to clean these things out of our minds because some man told us the book they were put in isn't scripture. Other men have stated they are scripture and you are swallowing that hook, line, and sinker with no questions. You are even wiping what is in the scripture you accept out of your mind telling it Lord you don't want to hear it!

You said IF it is true. We do not know and most scholars list it in Apocrypha due to its unverifiable nature. Of course you can read anything outside of scripture and if it matches what is said in scripture then great this is like going to your local Christian book store. But if a book contains new information that isnt in scripture then we are warned to reject other Gospels or other messages.

You have a lot of distrust in the Spirit. How do you know that the Bible isn't corrupted if it was written by men?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

And your use of Roman sandals is appalling, in your sandal thread, the romans were ruthless sandals of peace, you glorify the same ones who ripped skin off the back of people

Are you kidding me lol. Have you read Ephesians 6? Paul not I used the Roman armor as an example.

 

[Dino246]

LOl What your interpretation of Mathew 23: 8?

Yes that is what the warning reveals. The father of lies motive of operation. Many Christian are still waiting for him to be revealed as some sort of hidden sign and wonder .They do the same with the mark of Cain 666 waiting for it when it is already here found in the foundation of Genesis ..

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.1 John 2: 27-28

It the results of calling men seen as "Good Master."( teacher Rabbi) Even the son of God Jesus would not stand in the place of the unseen glory of God. an abomination of desolation. When accused by one bowing down in worship of being Good Master. Jesus said one is our Good Master God. Call no on earth teacher just as call no man on earth father.

Mark 10:16-18 King James Version (KJV) And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them. And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

There a discouragement to the signs and wonder seekers .Hoping there could be some good in the flesh of Jesus which he says does not profit for any thing .

I take the whole counsel of Scripture, not a single verse. God gave some to be teachers... of whom? Squirrels? No; of other humans. What did Paul do? He taught! What was Timothy to do? Teach! What did Prisca and Aquila do for Apollos? They taught him! The point of Jesus' words in Matthew 23 is that we are to exalt God alone, not men. You have interpreted it to mean "Avoid learning anything from humans". Your misinterpretation has left you ignorant and unteachable. It's quite sad.

 

[JamOn]

Are you kidding me lol. Have you read Ephesians 6? Paul not I used the Roman armor as an example.

Show me in Ephesians 6 the mentioning of Roman armor or Roman breastplate or Roman helmet, the Romans where not the only ones who had these things. to say the verses is talking about of Roman weapons or armor is you wanting to spin it as such.

I’ve read the whole chapter nothing is mentioned as being Roman.

Eph 6
Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

2 Honor thy father and mother (which is the first commandment with promise),

3 that it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but nurture them in the chastening and admonition of the Lord.

5 Servants, be obedient unto them that according to the flesh are your masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

6 not in the way of eye service, as men-pleasers; but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; 7 with good will doing service, as unto the Lord, and not unto men:

8 knowing that whatsoever good thing each one doeth, the same shall he receive again from the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, and forbear threatening: knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no respect of persons with him.

10 Finally, be strong in the Lord, and in the strength of his might.

11 Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

13 Wherefore take up the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and, having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness,

15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 withal taking up the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the evil one.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 with all prayer and supplication praying at all seasons in the Spirit, and watching thereunto in all perseverance and supplication for all the saints,

19 and on my behalf, that utterance may be given unto me in opening my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel,

20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

21 But that ye also may know my affairs, how I do, Tychicus, the beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things:

22 whom I have sent unto you for this very purpose, that ye may know our state, and that he may comfort your hearts.

23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ with a love incorruptible.

 

[JamOn]

1st
The manuscripts of apocrypha we currently have
are on the main idea that most scholars believe they are false.

2nd
The spiritual side of this is off. For the Bible to be inspired and 100% infallible must mean that the Spirit absolutely did it right.

3rd
By reason this automatically raises an objection. If these apocrypha are not verifiable and the Spirit didn't lead it to be included. Then we have no reason to include it in our theology. If people try to claim it as inspired but man corrupted the Bible by removing books, this raises a big question. What else has man corrupted if we cannot trust that God through His Spirit guided the creation of His written Word? This plants the seeds of doubt that can lead to unbelief as trust in scripture is faded.

What plants a seed of doubt is you saying the books mentioned is from outside sources as in the OT writers where quoting Greek methodology or greek theologians or books that God had nothing to do with.

That acts you mentioned about the unknown God was A God that the Greeks didn’t know yet they knew God existed yet they didnt have a name. The Greeks where harping on Paul for the belief in one God. And he pointed out they to believed in that God yet didn’t have a name on that alter the people built.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Show me in Ephesians 6 the mentioning of Roman armor or breastplate or helmet, the Romans where not the only ones who had these things. to say the verses is talking about of Roman weapons or armor is you wanting to spin it as such.

I’ve read the whole chapter nothing is mentioned as being Roman.

Eph 6
Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 [a]Honor thy father and mother (which is the first commandment with promise), 3 that it may be well with thee, and thou [b]mayest live long on the [c]earth. 4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but nurture them in the chastening and admonition of the Lord.

5 [d]Servants, be obedient unto them that according to the flesh are your [e]masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; 6 not in the way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers; but as [f]servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the [g]heart; 7 with good will doing service, as unto the Lord, and not unto men: 8 knowing that whatsoever good thing each one doeth, the same shall he receive again from the Lord, whether he be bond or free. 9 And, ye [h]masters, do the same things unto them, and forbear threatening: knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no respect of persons with him.

10 [i]Finally, [j]be strong in the Lord, and in the strength of his might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For our wrestling is not against [k]flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Wherefore take up the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and, having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the [l]gospel of peace; 16 withal taking up the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the evil one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 18 with all prayer and supplication praying at all seasons in the Spirit, and watching thereunto in all perseverance and supplication for all the saints, 19 and on my behalf, that utterance may be given unto me [m]in opening my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the [n]gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in [o]chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

21 But that ye also may know my affairs, how I do, Tychicus, the beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things: 22 whom I have sent unto you for this very purpose, that ye may know our state, and that he may comfort your hearts.

23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ [p]with a love incorruptible.

This really isnt related to Apocrypha but I'll entertain it due to your attack on my teaching.

If Armor is a physical image to represent a spiritual message then what physical image would Paul most likely be imagining sitting in a prison cell surrounded by Roman soldiers. Also a type of armor known for having to gird your loins. Also a type of shield known for its ability to extinguish the arrows of fire due to it being coated in fire resistant liquid before each battle.

Also which did the horrors that you speak of? The Armor or the person? The armor isnt evil.

 

[JamOn]

Epimenides the Cretan, the poet Paul cited in Titus 1:12.
Titus 1:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.

The second citation is from Aratus, a Cilcian poet (Phaenomena 5). The original line, “in him we move and live and have our being,” was pantheistic, but Paul spins this line into a statement about God as the source of our life.

yes you are correct God gave His word even to the Cretan Prophet because Paul said the testimony is true and truth only comes from God.

12As one of their own prophets has said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”

13This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sternly, so that they will be sound in the faith

 

[JamOn]

This really isnt related to Apocrypha but I'll entertain it due to your attack on my teaching.

If Armor is a physical image to represent a spiritual message then what physical image would Paul most likely be imagining sitting in a prison cell surrounded by Roman soldiers. Also a type of armor known for having to gird your loins. Also a type of shield known for its ability to extinguish the arrows of fire due to it being coated in fire resistant liquid before each battle.

Also which did the horrors that you speak of? The Armor or the person? The armor isnt evil.

Paul was very firmilar with the OT mentioning of armor and sword and breastplate, I can quote exodus if you like in those you will find gemstones of the breastplate of Aaron and a whole lot of more weapons and armor and helmets of the Hebrew people.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

What plants a seed of doubt is you saying the books mentioned is from outside sources as in the OT writers where quoting Greek methodology or greek theologians or books that God had nothing to do with.

That acts you mentioned about the unknown God was A God that the Greeks didn’t know yet they knew God existed yet they didnt have a name. The Greeks where harping on Paul for the belief in one God. And he pointed out they to believed in that God yet didn’t have a name on that alter the people built.

You are misunderstanding. I didn't say the books I listed was from outside sources. The Greek philosophers paragraph in my post was about how if you follow the same philosophy that just because something is quoted, that automatically means we need the whole source in our canon.

What I'm saying is our Bible includes 66 books the canon.

In the earliest centuries, there was little debate among Christians over which books belonged in the Bible; certainly by the time of the church leader Athanasius in the fourth century, the number of books had long been fixed. He set out the books of the New Testament just as we know them and added:

These are the fountains of salvation, that whoever thirsts may be satisfied by the eloquence which is in them. In them alone is set forth the doctrine of piety. Let no one add to them, nor take anything from them. -From the Festal Epistle of Athanasius XXXIX. Translated in Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. IV., p. 551–552. https://answersingenesis.org/the-word-of-god/why-66-books/​

And no the Unknown God portion of Acts was a example of Paul using Greek philosophy to debate the flaws within it. I listed actual names of Greek philosophers and writers that Paul quoted from in other parts of scripture.

Should we assume they are inspired also?

 

[JamOn]

I find it ironic the small nails on their bottom of sandals and they nailing Jesus to the crucifix, is like a modern saying dirt on their shoes and think they had dirt on their sandals. the romans crucified thousands upon thousands of people. once a rebellion happened near Rome modern Italy at the boot. they took the remaining rebels about 5000 and nailed them to crosses spread out every 40 yards all the way to Rome to show the people that is what happens if you rebel. the romans didn’t take Down the body’s or crucifix until the wood rotted away as a remember of their ruthless actions.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

yes you are correct God gave His word even to the Cretan Prophet because Paul said the testimony is true and truth only comes from God.

12As one of their own prophets has said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”

13This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sternly, so that they will be sound in the faith

So are we missing parts of the Bible due to we do not have the prophets writings?

 

[JamOn]

You are misunderstanding. I didn't say the books I listed was from outside sources. The Greek philosophers paragraph in my post was about how if you follow the same philosophy that just because something is quoted, that automatically means we need the whole source in our canon.

What I'm saying is our Bible includes 66 books the canon.

In the earliest centuries, there was little debate among Christians over which books belonged in the Bible; certainly by the time of the church leader Athanasius in the fourth century, the number of books had long been fixed. He set out the books of the New Testament just as we know them and added:

These are the fountains of salvation, that whoever thirsts may be satisfied by the eloquence which is in them. In them alone is set forth the doctrine of piety. Let no one add to them, nor take anything from them. -From the Festal Epistle of Athanasius XXXIX. Translated in Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. IV., p. 551–552. https://answersingenesis.org/the-word-of-god/why-66-books/​

And no the Unknown God portion of Acts was a example of Paul using Greek philosophy to debate the flaws within it. I listed actual names of Greek philosophers and writers that Paul quoted from in other parts of scripture.

Should we assume they are inspired also?

This seems your implying the information was from Greek philosophy.

1. The apostle Paul was well-acquainted with Greek philosophy and often quoted Greek writers as he spread the gospel (Acts 17:23–28). New Testament writers also reference Greek philosophical concepts in order to better explain their ideas.

So does that automatically make the Greek philosophers or philosophical ideas inspired and we should completely digest all there teachings also?




Acts 17:23 is not quoting Greek philosophy Paul saw the alters and explain the unknown God alter was the same God Paul was claiming.


Acts17:23
For passing through and beholding your objects of worship, I even found an altar on which had been inscribed: To an unknown God. Therefore whom you worship not knowing, Him I proclaim to you.

 

[JamOn]

So are we missing parts of the Bible due to we do not have the prophets writings?

We have the book titles but we don’t have the books, Jesus was called in scripture a Nazarene. some try to line up verses in the OT to that statement in the NT. but it falls well short of what scripture says, Jesus was a Nazarene as mentioned in the OT, that quote in a book is gone.

 

[JamOn]

Did God speak to the Greeks most certainly He did, for they had a alter called unknown God.

 

[Blik]

now you know how some of us feel when we read your " the romans created sunday worship/ modern church goers are worshiping nim rod " nonsense.

total judeaizer lies.

I don't see why history is so hard to understand. It is history that men decided that the sun was God, and they named the first day of the week the day of the sun or Sunday. Abraham Lincoln was one of our presidents, it is also history. That is simple to understand in the same way.

Judaizer is as simple. The Jews were given fleshly type things to do to help them learn the ways of God. When the new covenant was given us and Pentecost gave the Holy Spirit to all these were not needed any more. That is it. I brought up the question of whether the feasts are in that category or not, and I think they are similar to the Lord's Prayer that was given us so I believe the Lord wants us to celebrate and praise Him through them. We do that through holidays man decided on but aren't in scripture, I think God's ways are always superior to man's. I am no authority, it is God who decides this. I don't see why that is so difficult or could possibly bring up such hate posts.

I resent being called a liar.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Paul was very firmilar with the OT mentioning of armor and sword and breastplate, I can quote exodus if you like in those you will find gemstones of the breastplate of Aaron and a whole lot of more weapons and armor and helmets of the Hebrew people.

The armor wore by Aaron with gems wasn't for warfare. You can try to defend this but the Israelites was never known for its shield warfare.

But I love this iconic

This seems your implying the information was from Greek philosophy.

1. The apostle Paul was well-acquainted with Greek philosophy and often quoted Greek writers as he spread the gospel (Acts 17:23–28). New Testament writers also reference Greek philosophical concepts in order to better explain their ideas.

So does that automatically make the Greek philosophers or philosophical ideas inspired and we should completely digest all there teachings also?




Acts 17:23 is not quoting Greek philosophy Paul saw the alters and explain the unknown God alter was the same God Paul was claiming.


Acts17:23
For passing through and beholding your objects of worship, I even found an altar on which had been inscribed: To an unknown God. Therefore whom you worship not knowing, Him I proclaim to you.

I wasn't. But you can keep implying that.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

We have the book titles but we don’t have the books, Jesus was called in scripture a Nazarene. some try to line up verses in the OT to that statement in the NT. but it falls well short of what scripture says, Jesus was a Nazarene as mentioned in the OT, that quote in a book is gone.

If we do not have the books in our Canon then is our canon inaccurate or did the Spirit fail to preserve the canon?

 

[Blik]

Good. But you do understand that men wrote the Bible?

So what makes the Bible so unique if man wrote it? I hope you will say that the Spirit was involved. If we trust that God was in every step of the creation of the Bible then why would we think the Bible isn't what God intended and is missing whole books?

Posters are going on and on over the authenticity of different books and most think it was right to dispose of many, but no one is saying what they think angels are. The post was to discuss whether all angels are the same or are some different than others. How about posting about that? Scripture everyone agrees on lists different ones, those controversial books simply elaborate on our scripture.

 

[JamOn]

The armor wore by Aaron with gems wasn't for warfare. You can try to defend this but the Israelites was never known for its shield warfare.

But I love this iconic

I wasn't. But you can keep implying that.

Ok since you can’t see i referenced one mentioning of breastplates I’ll post other mentioning of armor shield and the like from the OT, there is no need to use Roman wardrobe to describe God Wardrobe it’s in the OT.

Paul was in my opinion thinking of the OT warriors not Roman hardware

Jeremiah 46:3-4

Order ye the buckler and shield, and draw near to battle.
Harness the horses; and get up, ye horsemen, and stand forth with your helmets; furbish the spears, and put on the brigandines (coat of mail).

Belt of Truth

Isaiah 11:5

And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Helmet of Salvation and Breastplate of Righteousness

Isaiah 59:17

For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke..

Feet shod with the Preparation of the Gospel of Peace

Isaiah 52:7
7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

Sheild of Faith

Proverbs 30:5

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Psalm 33:20

Our soul waiteth for the LORD: he is our help and our shield.

Sword of the Spirit

Deuteronomy 33:29
29 Happy art thou, O Israel: who is like unto thee, O people saved by the LORD, the shield of thy help, and who is the sword of thy excellency! and thine enemies shall be found liars unto thee; and thou shalt tread upon their high places.

Revelation 19:15
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

By going through the Old Testament we can see that the Lord is in each piece of armor. By putting on the armor, we put our faith in God and not in ourselves.

 

[JamOn]

If your going to use a secular army as a representation of strength, I would think a Kevlar bullet proof breast plate is 10 fold stronger than any Roman breastplate, just saying. Why Roman solders do you have a fascination with Roman technology and air conditioned streets and plated armor.