Applying God's Word to Politics
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Yes, i did. I "called" you right here: Who Invited the Liberal "Pastor"? - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums
So, what's the difference from your interpretation which has a right-wing bias from this leftist's left-wing bias when you mix God with politics?
You got that right regarding me being called and technologically challenged, so I copied a post to discuss with you here:
1. "Who invited that liberal "pastor" to speak at the Capitol?" Yes, that person should be reproved and fired if not a MAGA person who made an understandable mistake by not vetting the speaker.
2. "Mariann Edgar Budde is a liberal activist and nothing more. How she slipped under the wire, I don't know.": Thank you for naming her. We need to find out how that happened. It appears to be a deep state action. It just so happens that I am viewing her explanation on the Charlie Kirk Show right now, which was essentially that she wanted to plea for mercy, which seems okay but she should have included that explanation in the service rather than "Blathering on about how trans- kids fear for their lives."
Trump was indeed "good about it". I'd have liked for him to stand up and ask MEB whether during the previous Marxist administration she pled for mercy for those political opponents who were persecuted and had good reason to fear for their lives--including him!
1. "Who invited that liberal "pastor" to speak at the Capitol?" Yes, that person should be reproved and fired if not a MAGA person who made an understandable mistake by not vetting the speaker.
2. "Mariann Edgar Budde is a liberal activist and nothing more. How she slipped under the wire, I don't know.": Thank you for naming her. We need to find out how that happened. It appears to be a deep state action. It just so happens that I am viewing her explanation on the Charlie Kirk Show right now, which was essentially that she wanted to plea for mercy, which seems okay but she should have included that explanation in the service rather than "Blathering on about how trans- kids fear for their lives."
Trump was indeed "good about it". I'd have liked for him to stand up and ask MEB whether during the previous Marxist administration she pled for mercy for those political opponents who were persecuted and had good reason to fear for their lives--including him!
Okay since you avoided the question, i will repeat the answer i've been saying over and over in this thread.
I don't mix God with politics. Ever! I support Trump on non-Biblical basis because there is no Biblical support to be a cheerleader for any political party during any time on humanity's history.
Now to answer your questions which you got from somewhere else.
1. I agree that they should have done a better vetting process.
2. Not much to say about this "pastor" who is a confused liberal other than she did a good job at avoiding the vetting, if any vetting was done at all.
3. Trump's response was indeed more calm. Personally i would have left.
During work meetings when i had a crazy manager like that who doesn't want to hear any feedback and wants to preach and condemn, i walked out of the meeting and never came back.
So, i applaud Trump for having a more calm and patient approach. He expressed himself later about her, but not during the speech.
Those are my thoughts.
I don't mix God with politics. Ever! I support Trump on non-Biblical basis because there is no Biblical support to be a cheerleader for any political party during any time on humanity's history.
Now to answer your questions which you got from somewhere else.
1. I agree that they should have done a better vetting process.
2. Not much to say about this "pastor" who is a confused liberal other than she did a good job at avoiding the vetting, if any vetting was done at all.
3. Trump's response was indeed more calm. Personally i would have left.
During work meetings when i had a crazy manager like that who doesn't want to hear any feedback and wants to preach and condemn, i walked out of the meeting and never came back.
So, i applaud Trump for having a more calm and patient approach. He expressed himself later about her, but not during the speech.
Those are my thoughts.
The reason for supporting Trump is logical because he is a response to the woke virus that’s infecting the American culture.
So Trump is going to crush the woke virus during his term.
He’s done a great job so far in only 2 days alone!
Right into business and common sense.
I have also said that this is how history goes , the pendulum swings from one side into another and we are lucky to have some sort of normal periods in society where the general consciousness is more into “harmony” .
The manager I used to have who got fired because he was found stealing money, was an ego manic who treated people like they were disposable trash after they served his needs.
Now, this trait is found among many segments of society, Christianity included so it’s important to have discernment to know when to even have a conversation and when to skip a conversation.
Trump showed a lot of patience with that liberal “pastor” so I applaud him for that.
Don't you find that [good] business and common sense and anti-woke and ant-theft and humility and treating people with respect are all Biblical? How is much of anything having to do with peoples' thoughts and actions ultimately not supported or condemned by the Bible? Separating politics and God seems more a myth & this myth has been pushed on American Christians in the church vs. state mantra until much of the Ekklesia seems to be rejecting its misuse.
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No, because every culture claims to do "Biblical" things while they differ or contradict each other as i've said.
This is why American culture needs to do American things, Greek culture Greek things, German culture German things etc.
All of those approaches differ differently and i mentioned abortion as one example which is popular among American Christians on how countries differ vastly despite claiming to be "Biblical".
The rest of believers in those countries, like me, don't hold the view that politics are mixed with God.
The Pope is a classic example of a politician.
So no, i don't mix politics with God because there is no such thing, but you and many others are free to do so.
This is why American culture needs to do American things, Greek culture Greek things, German culture German things etc.
All of those approaches differ differently and i mentioned abortion as one example which is popular among American Christians on how countries differ vastly despite claiming to be "Biblical".
The rest of believers in those countries, like me, don't hold the view that politics are mixed with God.
The Pope is a classic example of a politician.
So no, i don't mix politics with God because there is no such thing, but you and many others are free to do so.
There are basic Biblical standards of righteousness and unrighteousness, good and bad, godliness and ungodliness, etc,, that underly every race and culture - all of humanity. Apart from God there are no such distinctions. We cannot separate ourselves from God in anything to do with the standards He has established for His creation. If we're supporting anyone for anything political based upon such standards, then we are not separating God from politics.
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No no what you’re misunderstanding here is not that anything in this Creation is on it’s own and apart from God, but the interpretations of every group about God can turn into a society which is in the equivalent of the sharia law Muslim society.
You want to link Trump or Maga with God? That's fine with me, because i don't think the pendulum will swing that hard to counterbalance the woke virus.
But if it does then you won't have a United States anymore, this is why your founding fathers separated religion from government.
You want to link Trump or Maga with God? That's fine with me, because i don't think the pendulum will swing that hard to counterbalance the woke virus.
But if it does then you won't have a United States anymore, this is why your founding fathers separated religion from government.
It's not about linking them with God. It's about discerning whether or not their standards are godly, meaning according to God's standards. In this there is no way to separate God from politics.
Both your concerns - Theocracy and Church vs. State - IMO are fringe arguments at this point. I don't see much of anybody or anything meaningful attempting to establish a Theocracy here or to force Christianity as the required religion of the USA. If anything these are terms of hyperbole used similarly to allegations of racism and naziism today. They're just not serious arguments for the core of the Country nor many Christians.
It's really just a discussion of what is right vs. what is wrong, just vs. unjust. In this there is no removing God from politics because He is the standard for His creation. The ungodly have forced upon the Ekklesia a view that God is not allowed in matters of State. Part of what's happening here IMO is that the Ekklesia is finally coming out of the buildings they've been bullied into remaining in when discussing God. And it's good that there is no earthly centralized leader over the Faith of all accepted here.
What the Ekklesia needs to do, again IMO, is to mature in wisdom and understanding of how God would have a mixed nation governed under His blessings until He brings it to its end. God's Law and wisdom remains an open discussion just as it was when Jesus was on earth:
NKJ Matt19:8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
Both your concerns - Theocracy and Church vs. State - IMO are fringe arguments at this point. I don't see much of anybody or anything meaningful attempting to establish a Theocracy here or to force Christianity as the required religion of the USA. If anything these are terms of hyperbole used similarly to allegations of racism and naziism today. They're just not serious arguments for the core of the Country nor many Christians.
It's really just a discussion of what is right vs. what is wrong, just vs. unjust. In this there is no removing God from politics because He is the standard for His creation. The ungodly have forced upon the Ekklesia a view that God is not allowed in matters of State. Part of what's happening here IMO is that the Ekklesia is finally coming out of the buildings they've been bullied into remaining in when discussing God. And it's good that there is no earthly centralized leader over the Faith of all accepted here.
What the Ekklesia needs to do, again IMO, is to mature in wisdom and understanding of how God would have a mixed nation governed under His blessings until He brings it to its end. God's Law and wisdom remains an open discussion just as it was when Jesus was on earth:
NKJ Matt19:8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
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Well i mean look, your discussion is that you want me to believe that God has something to do with politics while ignoring that Jesus did not establish some earthly kingdom here and also ignoring that what is right to you on your zip code after reading the Bible is considered wrong in another zip code who reads the Bible.
So i'm not sure what else we can discuss at this point, in terms of fine-points.
God has something to do with everything in His creation including the concept of human government from self to family to church to nation. In addition He is spreading His Kingdom on the earth. The US is a nation where we can talk freely and openly about this. What we just witnessed is how far the opposition to this freedom advanced in removing it. What we are now witnessing in part is the open rebuttal to that opposition.
I have no misconceptions that Christianity is not vastly denominational and has some obvious corporate maturity to be achieved. Yet the major points of God's standards of right vs. wrong should not be that difficult to legislate and maintain. IMO part of what we've seen is criminality take hold here and right use of law go by the wayside. In listening to our new leadership and those supporting them (many Christians BTW), I see some hope that much of that element will be dealt with and things righted.
Again, I'm not discussing a state religion and just because there is disagreement from zip code to zip code doesn't mean we give up seeking God's will and ways and blessing and certainly doesn't mean we disavow Him in politics. In part I think we just witnessed where that got us.
I have no misconceptions that Christianity is not vastly denominational and has some obvious corporate maturity to be achieved. Yet the major points of God's standards of right vs. wrong should not be that difficult to legislate and maintain. IMO part of what we've seen is criminality take hold here and right use of law go by the wayside. In listening to our new leadership and those supporting them (many Christians BTW), I see some hope that much of that element will be dealt with and things righted.
Again, I'm not discussing a state religion and just because there is disagreement from zip code to zip code doesn't mean we give up seeking God's will and ways and blessing and certainly doesn't mean we disavow Him in politics. In part I think we just witnessed where that got us.
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Look, i will make it simple for you and i've said it before.
The Kingdom of God is within us and we are ambassadors of Christ to show a Christ-like behavior in relation to other humans who are created in God's image.
Christ Himself made it very simple for us too when He said that "Give Cesar what belongs to Cesar" and focus on Him basically.
So i am with you here.
But, the moment you want to link this to MAGA or some other political party in the globe then we part ways.
Also, for your information US is not the only nation where you can speak freely. You can speak freely in Europe too.
In fact when i first moved to US from Europe i found a lot of restrictions here that didn't exist in Europe such as drinking limits, closing parks at certain hours and many many other topics which are included in the higher topic of 'Culture shock'.
So i am with you until you start linking God to Trump or Maga.
The Kingdom of God is within us and we are ambassadors of Christ to show a Christ-like behavior in relation to other humans who are created in God's image.
Christ Himself made it very simple for us too when He said that "Give Cesar what belongs to Cesar" and focus on Him basically.
So i am with you here.
But, the moment you want to link this to MAGA or some other political party in the globe then we part ways.
Also, for your information US is not the only nation where you can speak freely. You can speak freely in Europe too.
In fact when i first moved to US from Europe i found a lot of restrictions here that didn't exist in Europe such as drinking limits, closing parks at certain hours and many many other topics which are included in the higher topic of 'Culture shock'.
So i am with you until you start linking God to Trump or Maga.
To clarify what I said a few minutes ago, this is not about linking to Trump or to MAGA. This is simply learning God's standards and discerning who is aligned with or closer to them and thereby not removing God from politics. Right now that is Trump and his admin and many of the people in the MAGA movement who have discerned how far off-base the 2 major parties became.
I'm sure you will also acknowledge that there are places in the world where the freedoms we're discussing are not allowed. And, yes, I'm familiar with some that visit here and inform us that we're not as free as we think we are, but whether or not restrictions on smoking and drinking and such things are that meaningful to freedom are not of major importance IMO. Reminds me of an old skit by Steve Martin - 'mind if I smoke....'
You're speaking of Trump and MAGA, so I'm discussing in that light. As time advances we'll have many things to discuss as to whether or not Trump and MAGA are politically aligned with God on this or that issue. It's good practice for Christians to have such discussions. There will most probably be internal disagreements. Some such discussions within the ranks have already been taking place. How can they not...?
I'm sure you will also acknowledge that there are places in the world where the freedoms we're discussing are not allowed. And, yes, I'm familiar with some that visit here and inform us that we're not as free as we think we are, but whether or not restrictions on smoking and drinking and such things are that meaningful to freedom are not of major importance IMO. Reminds me of an old skit by Steve Martin - 'mind if I smoke....'
You're speaking of Trump and MAGA, so I'm discussing in that light. As time advances we'll have many things to discuss as to whether or not Trump and MAGA are politically aligned with God on this or that issue. It's good practice for Christians to have such discussions. There will most probably be internal disagreements. Some such discussions within the ranks have already been taking place. How can they not...?
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We seem to be talking past one another re: linking vs. not linking God to parties. I'm speaking of linking God to politics and to the standards human beings govern by. If any admin or party goes against God, then we say as much because we Christians don't separate God from politics but identify His creation as His and desire His blessings. It seems a simple concept of salt and light.
What is the difference from your point of view at this point compared to a trans point of view? Both sides cherry pick the Bible.
The moment you link God to maga then you just turned God into team sports.
I mean a few weeks ago i gave you a link in this topic about some trans church cherry-picking the bible like a Maga might do to support their addictions.
So this is why for me this is as clear as day but anyone is free to do as they wish.
Personally i am happy that Trump won to crush the woke virus. This is an expected response in history, including atheist societies when you push dumb extremist ideas for too long.
Society will self-correct themselves.
This is what Trump is doing.
What Christ is doing, has nothing to do with this mindset but the mindset of seeking Him and showing our light to the fallen world in a personal basis, not a governmental basis.
But yes, we may be talking over each-other at this point.
Why take this to such extremes? They always exist. Yet there are many who do much deeper analysis of the Text and reason much more deeply than cherry-picking verses.
Much of the self-correcting you speak of has come about due to Christian influences over the centuries. The same goes for the self-correcting within Christendom. Or is any of this self-correcting apart from God's involvement and influence?
If we were to remove our light from the political arena then all we've done is remove the influence of light from a major global arena. As stated earlier, where did that get the USA? Where it got the USA is to be on the verge of becoming another nation with little to no light left in its government.
When Christians live out their beliefs personally, as families, in businesses and professions, and yes as participants in governments, there is simply more light shone. The whole evangelize only and be quiet about government is a bullying tactic forced upon a weakened church. Christ's and His true Ekklesia are not weak.
From what I'm seeing a new generation is standing up after the failure of much of a recent generation. I'm thankful they are. I'm fascinated to see where He leads them. Watching some of the new cabinet profess their faith in Jesus Christ as the basis for who they are is beyond refreshing. Watching Trump's obvious changed character after nearly being killed and watching his seriousness and resolve and speaking openly about God's involvement in his survival is also beautiful.
Have you ever thought about such things being evangelistic and light? Many have.