Apostasy 101

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Chris1975

Chris1975

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#462
Apr 27, 2017
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JohnR7 said:
We are told: " God's gifts and his call are irrevocable." (Romans11:29)
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Applied to Corporate Israel. Read the whole action of that passage. On account of God's promises to the forefathers, he will not forget his chosen people. It has Zero to do with individual election in this piece.
 
JohnR7

JohnR7

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#463
Chris1975 said:
chosen people. It has Zero to do with individual election in this piece.
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Tell that to the "Jews" today. After the Holocaust they do not entertain the idea that they are selected or elected simply because they are "Jewish". They believe they have to live right if they want to find favor with God. "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." (Rev22:17) For me "whosoever" means everyone. Whosoever is willing let them come. Some people believe everyone has their name written in the book of life. Only for some their name is blotted out. "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life" (Rev3:5)
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#464
Apr 18, 2016
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#464
JohnR7 said:
We are told: " God's gifts and his call are irrevocable." (Romans11:29)
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The gifts are a promise "if"......
Once you receive them, they are not irrevocable but the promise has an "if", remember?
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#465
Apr 27, 2017
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#465
JohnR7 said:
Tell that to the "Jews" today. After the Holocaust they do not entertain the idea that they are selected or elected simply because they are "Jewish". They believe they have to live right if they want to find favor with God. "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." (Rev22:17) For me "whosoever" means everyone. Whosoever is willing let them come. Some people believe everyone has their name written in the book of life. Only for some their name is blotted out.
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When the church age comes to it's conclusion (Rapture of the Church) the fullness of the Gentiles will have come in. Israel's eyes will be opened to whom the Messiah is. This is what is meant by this. God has not forgotten about them.
 
JohnR7

JohnR7

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Noose said:
but the promise has an "if", remember?
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We have a covenant relationship with God. He is a God of justice. If we do our part of the promise then we can be sure that HE will do His part. There are Hebrew letters that take four pen strokes to make. There can be up to four conditions for a promise from God. For example: "women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety." " faith, love and holiness with propriety" are all conditions and really there is a fifth one in that they have to continue in this. I remember my sister in law had some medical issues when she was having her daughter. I gave her this scripture and she hung onto that God was going to work everything out for her. This ties her in with her daughter though. They are pretty close to each other. For example her daughter is going to be going to Europe for 3 months for a job she is working on. The mother is going to go over there for 2 weeks to spend time with her. So even though her daughter is something like 30 years old. They are still pretty close to each other.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#467
#467
JohnR7 said:
Tell that to the "Jews" today. After the Holocaust they do not entertain the idea that they are selected or elected simply because they are "Jewish". They believe they have to live right if they want to find favor with God. "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." (Rev22:17) For me "whosoever" means everyone. Whosoever is willing let them come. Some people believe everyone has their name written in the book of life. Only for some their name is blotted out. "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life" (Rev3:5)
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who are those who overcome?

Those who come in true living faith
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#469
#469
mailmandan said:
Amen! 1 John 5:4 - For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. :)
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so much for works..

Our works come from faith.. people want to make it the other way around
 
JohnR7

JohnR7

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Chris1975 said:
When the church age comes to it's conclusion (Rapture of the Church) the fullness of the Gentiles will have come in. Israel's eyes will be opened to whom the Messiah is. This is what is meant by this. God has not forgotten about them.
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That is what is happening today. God is getting them ready for that. He is doing a work to prepare them. At least the ones that are willing to allow Him to do a work in their life. I buy books from Hasidic Rabbi that helps sponsor them as they provide an education for the young people pretty much for free. So I have reference material here that helps me to know what they believe. I have been told that I will have a place in the New Jerusalem because I study their teaching even if I am a Christian and not "Jewish". Although the gentiles are adopted into the family of Abraham. It will be interesting to meet him in Heaven to see just what our relationship is with him.
 
JohnR7

JohnR7

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eternally-gratefull said:
who are those who overcome?
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They overcome satan with all of his lies and deception because they have a close walk with the Holy Spririt to guide and lead them into all truth. So we are able to live a life of victory. There are some pretty strong scriptures about how our garment or flesh has to be cleansed in the Blood of Jesus so that the Bride will be without spot, blemish or wrinkle.
 
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Enxu

Active member
#474
Jan 13, 2020
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OP, just coming on here for a few days I’ve discerned that many who argue against the truth are modern day Pharisees who only are believers in name. When they can’t argue against the Scriptural evidences you’ve presented they will turn and falsely accuse you instead. Don’t throw your pearls before dogs and swine. If they truly loved the truth they would have searched it out themselves.

They want their consciences soothed, their security guaranteed so they can live for themselves and hear what they want to hear from lying preachers. They don’t love the truth because the truth will convict them of their sins and selfish attitudes. Jesus said we are to deny ourselves, take up our crosses to follow Him. That is the last thing on their minds. They will reject the Messiah just like the old time Pharisees did. God will send a strong delusion to them as prophesied because they received not the love of the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

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#475
Apr 27, 2017
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#475
Enxu said:
OP, just coming on here for a few days I’ve discerned that many who argue against the truth are modern day Pharisees who only are believers in name. When they can’t argue against the Scriptural evidences you’ve presented they will turn and falsely accuse you instead. Don’t throw your pearls before dogs and swine. If they truly loved the truth they would have searched it out themselves.
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Hi Enxu, it is not about convincing them. There is at any one stage 5x to 10x readers on the forum as compared to contributing members. There are people searching out what Christianity is about. It is for this reason. Otherwise I would have dusted the feet and moved on long ago (y)
 
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Enxu

Active member
#476
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#476
Chris1975 said:
Hi Enxu, it is not about convincing them. There is at any one stage 5x to 10x readers on the forum as compared to contributing members. There are people searching out what Christianity is about. It is for this reason. Otherwise I would have dusted the feet and moved on long ago (y)
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It would have been better if you had done that in a public place because a forum is a place where anyone can write and the truth is mixed with error and not beneficial to those who seek the truth. I’m moving on because of the false accusations thrown around at me by supposedly Christians who don’t care about following godly principles, support greed and want to justify their lifestyles in plain contradiction to the Gospel. Be blessed.
 
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Judges1318

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#477
Nov 16, 2019
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mailmandan said:
In Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows continuous, willful, habitual action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9). *Hermeneutics.
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That is correct, it is the unrighteous that 'practice' sin in a habitual lifestyle.
This sanctified person has fallen away in unbelief to that state..
This sanctified person let the deceitfulness of sin harden him to unbelief.
And it is from that condition that he is now in a state of habitual sin.
He has sinned himself, or is sinning himself, to unbelief.

This argument that wherever you see habitual, unrepentant sin and unbelief in the Bible you're dealing with an unbeliever, not a believer, ignores the potential that the believer gradually sinned himself into a hardening of the heart to unbelief.

12See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. - Hebrews 3:12-13
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#478
#478
JohnR7 said:
They overcome satan with all of his lies and deception because they have a close walk with the Holy Spririt to guide and lead them into all truth. So we are able to live a life of victory. There are some pretty strong scriptures about how our garment or flesh has to be cleansed in the Blood of Jesus so that the Bride will be without spot, blemish or wrinkle.
Click to expand...
yes, Our flesh was cleansed the moment of faith. Now we should walk in our new idently
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#479
Apr 7, 2014
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#479
Judges1318 said:
That is correct, it is the unrighteous that 'practice' sin in a habitual lifestyle.
This sanctified person has fallen away in unbelief to that state..
This sanctified person let the deceitfulness of sin harden him to unbelief.
And it is from that condition that he is now in a state of habitual sin.
He has sinned himself, or is sinning himself, to unbelief.
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OXYMORON. 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin.. Yet you say those who are born of God practice sin and lose their salvation. Should I believe you or John?

This argument that wherever you see habitual, unrepentant sin and unbelief in the Bible you're dealing with an unbeliever, not a believer, ignores the potential that the believer gradually sinned himself into a hardening of the heart to unbelief.
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Which demonstrated a shallow, temporary belief that had no root, which is not saving belief.

See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. - Hebrews 3:12-13
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This letter is addressed to brothers and sisters, but that does not mean that EVERYONE in a group of professing believers truly is a genuine believer. See Hebrews 4:2-3. If a Pastor of a church (especially a very large church) on Sunday morning greeted the congregation with, "good morning brothers and sisters in Christ" does that mean that EVERYONE who attended church that Sunday MUST be a brother or sister in Christ? Of course not.
 
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Enxu

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Jan 13, 2020
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#480
mailmandan said:
It's true that "nominal" (in name only) Christians never had true faith, but a spurious faith. You don't need true faith in order to draw back. Those who received the "knowledge" of the truth in Hebrews 10:26 were at a crossroad and those who drew back to perdition DID NOT BELIEVE TO THE SAVING OF THE SOUL and those who believe to the saving of the soul DID NOT DRAW BACK TO PERDITION. Drawing back would be a manifestation of unbelief.

Someone who has received the "knowledge" of the truth and is among genuine believers and is still in the process of considering the truth, but then ultimately decides to draw back to perdition instead of believing to the saving of the soul still drew back. The truth was revealed to such people, yet they still drew back. That is where they drew back from. You can't draw back from the truth if you have not yet acquired the truth and had the chance to consider the truth, but that does not mean you have to fully accept the truth before you draw back.

If I decide to walk across the Brooklyn bridge and I walk right up to the bridge and am on the verge of stepping onto it, but then instead, I turn and walk away from it, does that mean I didn't turn away and depart from the bridge just because I wasn't actually on the bridge? Of course not. It's the same with these Hebrews who draw back to perdition and do not believe to the saving of the soul.
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You haven’t answered my question, what did they draw back from if they did not have true faith?

According to you, the Israel in OT never had true faith either, because an entire generation died in the wilderness after coming out of Egypt due to disbelief. So why did God save them knowing they had false faith?
 
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