And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil
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Butter wouldn't melt. 
"Trying to turn the church upside down" was me using hyperbole for the purpose of driving the point home.
And STILL you don't get it. Your first post in this thread was an accusation of the whole church from it's beginning
with a false claim that Jesus' teaching on eternal punishment was a later interpolation.
Here again. I don't accept your revision of church history, nor of sound doctrine.
"Trying to turn the church upside down" was me using hyperbole for the purpose of driving the point home.
And STILL you don't get it. Your first post in this thread was an accusation of the whole church from it's beginning
with a false claim that Jesus' teaching on eternal punishment was a later interpolation.
Here again. I don't accept your revision of church history, nor of sound doctrine.
You know in Christianity I think we end up disagreeing a lot more than we agree. Perhaps we agree on the core things for the most part, but I don’t think the fate of the unsaved is one of those things we can just agree to disagree on in good conscience.
The church telling people they’re going to hell and will suffer eternal torment is wrong and directly effects the image of the church and it’s attractiveness.
There are people who probably would be a Christian if they weren’t horrified at how the faith is represented. That’s a big problem if Christian is repulsing people.
So I think after all that has been said and done here, you should take a more neutral approach to this topic, as in you don’t know. You don’t have any clear verses that directly say “all those without Jesus will be tormented forever.”
That being said, it’s safer to not spread misinformation about God’s plan.
I’m referencing a Strong’s Greek lexicon:
destroy
ἀπολέσαι (apolesai)
Verb - Aorist Infinitive Active
Strong's Greek 622: From apo and the base of olethros; to destroy fully, literally or figuratively.
And here’s a link to what I am looking at:
https://biblehub.com/strongs/matthew/10-28.htm
destroy
ἀπολέσαι (apolesai)
Verb - Aorist Infinitive Active
Strong's Greek 622: From apo and the base of olethros; to destroy fully, literally or figuratively.
And here’s a link to what I am looking at:
https://biblehub.com/strongs/matthew/10-28.htm
You admitted that the punishment will be eternal, as Matt 25:46 says. You also say that the soul wil no long exist, which will be the punishment.
So figure out what you believe. You can't have both. Unless you admit to being confused and contradicted.
That's not "eternal". When the soul ceases to exist, the whatever punishment is over. For the punishment to be eternal, the soul must experience it for eternity.
Nope. Straight from the Bible.
They have NONE of it correct. In fact, the Bible describes them as FOOLS in Psa 14:1 and 53:1.
So figure out what you believe. You can't have both. Unless you admit to being confused and contradicted.
That's not "eternal". When the soul ceases to exist, the whatever punishment is over. For the punishment to be eternal, the soul must experience it for eternity.
Nope. Straight from the Bible.
They have NONE of it correct. In fact, the Bible describes them as FOOLS in Psa 14:1 and 53:1.
Thayer and BDAG are better Lexicons
Tell me were the chief priests and scribes going to trying to vaporize Jesus, did they have the technology back then to extinguish matter and energy?
47 And he was teaching daily in the temple. The chief priests and the scribes and the principal men of the people sought to destroy him; Luke 19:47
So the scribes and the Pharisees were able to break the first Law of Thermodynamics?
I am thinking that if "destroyed" meant to break the First Law of Thermodynamics in any part of Scripture God would have had a very specific word for it starting in the OT.
Destroyed does not speak to the nature of the destruction, annihilation does, they are not interchangeable.
Annihilate means to cease to exist.
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You would prefer the figurative interpretation since that serves you better, but the problem with that is you don’t get to decide what is figure or literal. Once you open up that can of worms, really we can start making everything in the Bible figurative. Hell dan be figurative, punishment can be figurative. See how that works? Don’t be intellectually dishonest.
Thanks for sharing your opinion, but I didn’t say annihilate; however, it means the same thing. It doesn’t mean breaking laws of nature if something is destroyed.
You’re reaching pretty far to make seem like the illogical conclusion to reach when the plain text of the Bible says destroy.
Do these verses make it clearer?
James 4:12
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy
Philippians 3:18-19
18 “For I have told you often before, and I say it again with tears in my eyes, that there are many whose conduct shows they are really enemies of the cross of Christ.
19 They are headed for destruction."
Psalm 92:7
"Though the wicked sprout like weeds and evildoers flourish they will be destroyed forever."
Psalm 37:20
"But the wicked will die... they will disappear like smoke."
You’re reaching pretty far to make seem like the illogical conclusion to reach when the plain text of the Bible says destroy.
Do these verses make it clearer?
James 4:12
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy
Philippians 3:18-19
18 “For I have told you often before, and I say it again with tears in my eyes, that there are many whose conduct shows they are really enemies of the cross of Christ.
19 They are headed for destruction."
Psalm 92:7
"Though the wicked sprout like weeds and evildoers flourish they will be destroyed forever."
Psalm 37:20
"But the wicked will die... they will disappear like smoke."
Do you realize Matthew 10:28 is just a single verse? I wanted to just show the fact that the soul can be destroyed using a verse that contains the word soul. I know if I show something without the word soul, you’ll have people saying that it doesn’t apply to the soul.
However, the Bible has dozens of examples of guaranteed death and destruction of the wicked.
James 4:12
"God alone, who gave the law, is the Judge. He alone has the power to save or to destroy."
Hebrews 10:39
"But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction..."
Philippians 3:18-19
"For I have told you often before, and I say it again with tears in my eyes, that there are many whose conduct shows they are really enemies of the cross of Christ.
19 They are headed for destruction."
Psalm 92:7
"Though the wicked sprout like weeds and evildoers flourish they will be destroyed forever."
Psalm 37:20
"But the wicked will die... they will disappear like smoke."
Psalm 1:6:
"... For the Lord watches over the path of the godly, but the path of the wicked leads to destruction."
Hebrews 10:26-27
"There is only the terrible expectation of God's judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies."
2 Peter 3:7
"...for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed."
Romans 2:7
"He will give eternal life to those who keep on doing good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers."
Genesis 3:19
"For you were made from dust, and to dust you will return."
Psalm 146:4
"When they breathe their last, they return to the earth, and all their plans die with them."
Ecclesiastes 9:5
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins is the one who will die.
2 Chronicles 28:3
"He burned incense in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, and burned his children in the fire, according to the abominations of the nations whom the Lord had cast out before the children of Israel." (the Valley of Ben Hinnom is where the concept of Gehenna or Hell comes from)
Jeremiah 19:5
"They have built pagan shrines to Baal, and there they burn their sons as sacrifices to Baal. I have never commanded such a horrible deed; it never even crossed My mind to command such a thing!"
Malachi 4:1, 4:3 "The day of judgment is coming, burning like a furnace. On that day the arrogant and the wicked will be burned up like straw. They will be consumed—roots, branches, and all... On the day when I act, you will tread upon the wicked as if they were dust under your feet," says the Lord of Heaven's Armies."
Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."
John 6:51
"I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will live forever" (the offer to live forever only makes sense if it were possible to not live forever.)
2 Thessalonians 1:9
"They will be punished with eternal destruction,forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power."
Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death."
2 Peter 2:6
"and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, having made them an example unto those that should live ungodly"
Revelation 20:14-15
"And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire."
However, the Bible has dozens of examples of guaranteed death and destruction of the wicked.
James 4:12
"God alone, who gave the law, is the Judge. He alone has the power to save or to destroy."
Hebrews 10:39
"But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction..."
Philippians 3:18-19
"For I have told you often before, and I say it again with tears in my eyes, that there are many whose conduct shows they are really enemies of the cross of Christ.
19 They are headed for destruction."
Psalm 92:7
"Though the wicked sprout like weeds and evildoers flourish they will be destroyed forever."
Psalm 37:20
"But the wicked will die... they will disappear like smoke."
Psalm 1:6:
"... For the Lord watches over the path of the godly, but the path of the wicked leads to destruction."
Hebrews 10:26-27
"There is only the terrible expectation of God's judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies."
2 Peter 3:7
"...for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed."
Romans 2:7
"He will give eternal life to those who keep on doing good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers."
Genesis 3:19
"For you were made from dust, and to dust you will return."
Psalm 146:4
"When they breathe their last, they return to the earth, and all their plans die with them."
Ecclesiastes 9:5
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins is the one who will die.
2 Chronicles 28:3
"He burned incense in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, and burned his children in the fire, according to the abominations of the nations whom the Lord had cast out before the children of Israel." (the Valley of Ben Hinnom is where the concept of Gehenna or Hell comes from)
Jeremiah 19:5
"They have built pagan shrines to Baal, and there they burn their sons as sacrifices to Baal. I have never commanded such a horrible deed; it never even crossed My mind to command such a thing!"
Malachi 4:1, 4:3 "The day of judgment is coming, burning like a furnace. On that day the arrogant and the wicked will be burned up like straw. They will be consumed—roots, branches, and all... On the day when I act, you will tread upon the wicked as if they were dust under your feet," says the Lord of Heaven's Armies."
Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."
John 6:51
"I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will live forever" (the offer to live forever only makes sense if it were possible to not live forever.)
2 Thessalonians 1:9
"They will be punished with eternal destruction,forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power."
Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death."
2 Peter 2:6
"and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, having made them an example unto those that should live ungodly"
Revelation 20:14-15
"And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire."