All Of Israel, Or Just A Remnant?
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I had to stop right there. What are you talking about? Why would you talk to a Christian Brother like that?
Look, just because you all devour each other like wolves . . . doesn't mean that I'm doing that to you. So if that's your approach, my friend . . . we won't communicate. I am not here to be an animal amongst my Brothers and Sisters. "You all" need to start learning how to Love each other instead of proving the consistent ability to shred each other to pieces. I'm not taking part in it.
Would you like to try again?
Look, just because you all devour each other like wolves . . . doesn't mean that I'm doing that to you. So if that's your approach, my friend . . . we won't communicate. I am not here to be an animal amongst my Brothers and Sisters. "You all" need to start learning how to Love each other instead of proving the consistent ability to shred each other to pieces. I'm not taking part in it.
Would you like to try again?
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Here (<= link) is a very interesting page! .
^ Detailing The 23 Individual Healings by Jesus Described in the Four Gospels
^ Detailing The 23 Individual Healings by Jesus Described in the Four Gospels
I hear what you're saying. In my studies of Romans 11-13 today, I walked away feeling like the Jewish Nation will always be recognized, and Loved, as His Blessed Chosen Ones. I understand that you're saying the Jews were LIKE the Gentiles in their Spiritual Status, but they are definitely Levites and Benjamites, etc.
I don't mean to argue . . . I probably misunderstand. Thank you for contributing and helping.
I don't mean to argue . . . I probably misunderstand. Thank you for contributing and helping.
I an sorry that you feel that way. When I read your post, It sounded like you were really interested in understanding the truth of Christ's doctrine. I spent most of my life trying to harmonize the scriptures without them, seemingly, contradicting each other.
One of my problems was that I thought I was intelligent enough to figure it out and take credit for my intelligence. Because of my pride, the Holy Spirit within me would not reveal any truths that would harmonize the scriptures until I was 72 years old and admitted that I was not able to understand the scriptures.
I would talk to any christian brother like that, if they really want to harmonize the scriptures, but if you are not interested in conversing with me, that is fine, for understanding the scriptures is dependent upon the revelation of the Holy Spirit within a person..
I pray for your success in your endeavor to seek the truth of Christ's doctrine.
The cross didn't make forgiveness possible. It already existed and there is nothing about only doing it in anticipation of the cross like borrowing from it and paying back later
Just as important as Jesus' death is His sinless life. The reason for this is is because God requires perfect righteousness. In other words, when we sin, even if our sin is wiped away, the righteousness or obedience that should have come forth from us when we sinned is still owed to God. This is why Christ's righteousness must be imputed to us. In this way God remains just, but can also be the justifier of those who place their trust in Jesus...Romans 3:26.
Man has 2 problems as he stands before God:
1. He has sinned and deserves death, and
2. He owes God righteousness in place of his disobedience.
Jesus has uniquely solved these problems for those who believe by becoming their propitiation to assuage God's wrath and provide perfect righteousness on their behalf. And God remains just in His accomplishment of their salvation. And the forgiveness of sins finds its fruition on the basis of perfect life and atoning death of the Lord Jesus Christ. Short of this, no forgiveness ever takes place.
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Um. So at the creation of man, when the Godhead said this: "Let Us make man..." the Son of God was a Jew at that time?
Just trying to get your meaning.
Notice, without a son there is no father. Without a father there is no son. There is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Not curious why two are relationships and one is simply defined as Spirit?
Just trying to get your meaning.
Notice, without a son there is no father. Without a father there is no son. There is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Not curious why two are relationships and one is simply defined as Spirit?
Um. So at the creation of man, when the Godhead said this: "Let Us make man..." the Son of God was a Jew at that time?
I’ve never said anything like that
This is Jesus before he became a man before anyone knew him
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
Genesis 1:1 KJV
This is God when he became a man of the tribe of Judah the son of Abraham the son of David
“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
Matthew 1:21-23 KJV
It’s basic and simple Jesus is God he came forward in the New Testament born as a man of the tribe of Judah born under the law circumcised the eighth day
are you saying God didn’t become a man of the flesh of David and Abraham ? He isn’t the man promised ofnthe tribe of Judah ? What man was he a gentile ? Or did he never actually become a man live and die ?
Jesus became the israelite promised messiah his flesh and blood was of Israel. His life in ear th was of a jrwish carpenter until he was annointed to preach the gospel.
You seem to not be able to hear what I’m saying lol you’ve interpreted it as a Jewish man became God ? No Jesus is God he became a man in order to save mankind because we had No intercessor
There has to be a man that can mediate a relationship between God and mankind that’s who God became our intercessor a perfect man as high priest our advocate
God became a man flesh and blood the son was born
“For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.”
Luke 2:11
“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
Matthew 1:1 KJV
“by stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.”
Acts 4:30 KJV
“but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,”
Galatians 4:4
“And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”
Luke 1:35
Brother Jesus became a man when he did he was a Jewish man born under the law of the tribes of Israel …..that’s basic I’m not sure where your issue is the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ was of Jewish origin being of Mary a descendant of David who was a descendant of Abraham
I’ve never said anything like that
This is Jesus before he became a man before anyone knew him
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
Genesis 1:1 KJV
This is God when he became a man of the tribe of Judah the son of Abraham the son of David
“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
Matthew 1:21-23 KJV
It’s basic and simple Jesus is God he came forward in the New Testament born as a man of the tribe of Judah born under the law circumcised the eighth day
are you saying God didn’t become a man of the flesh of David and Abraham ? He isn’t the man promised ofnthe tribe of Judah ? What man was he a gentile ? Or did he never actually become a man live and die ?
Jesus became the israelite promised messiah his flesh and blood was of Israel. His life in ear th was of a jrwish carpenter until he was annointed to preach the gospel.
You seem to not be able to hear what I’m saying lol you’ve interpreted it as a Jewish man became God ? No Jesus is God he became a man in order to save mankind because we had No intercessor
There has to be a man that can mediate a relationship between God and mankind that’s who God became our intercessor a perfect man as high priest our advocate
God became a man flesh and blood the son was born
“For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.”
Luke 2:11
“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
Matthew 1:1 KJV
“by stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.”
Acts 4:30 KJV
“but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,”
Galatians 4:4
“And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”
Luke 1:35
Brother Jesus became a man when he did he was a Jewish man born under the law of the tribes of Israel …..that’s basic I’m not sure where your issue is the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ was of Jewish origin being of Mary a descendant of David who was a descendant of Abraham
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This post is the pinnacle of a hypocrisy.
For merely questioning you in post #76... you accuse another brother of talking improperly, and then you accuse the whole forum of acting like wolves, and then you accuse the whole forum of having no love.
At the very onset of your views, in post #1, you try to preempt debate and silence the entire forum from debating against any of your views... IN A DEBATE FORUM. And then when someone questioned that... YOU ATTACKED HIM, AND CALLED EVERYONE HERE NAMES.
Hypocrisy:
A.) You try to silence debate, preemptively, on a debate forum.
B.) You accuse people and call them names... for the sin of... wait for it... speaking unkindly.
Kind of surreal.
.
.
For merely questioning you in post #76... you accuse another brother of talking improperly, and then you accuse the whole forum of acting like wolves, and then you accuse the whole forum of having no love.
At the very onset of your views, in post #1, you try to preempt debate and silence the entire forum from debating against any of your views... IN A DEBATE FORUM. And then when someone questioned that... YOU ATTACKED HIM, AND CALLED EVERYONE HERE NAMES.
Hypocrisy:
A.) You try to silence debate, preemptively, on a debate forum.
B.) You accuse people and call them names... for the sin of... wait for it... speaking unkindly.
Kind of surreal.
.
.
Yeah Jesus is who the old testement tells us is my only point it tells us who he is . It tells us he is the creator the first and also the last , it tells us he would become flesh and blood and come to Israel to give them a new covenant not according to the covenant made at sinia in horeb with them.
It tells us he this man who would be. Ron of a virgin the lord of heaven and earth , would receive the spirit ofGod that God would declare the decree “this is my son “ and that Christ would speak Gods everlasting words and judgements to the world
that he would do miracles among the people that he would extend his new covenant to all nations . That he would take upon himself the sins of the people , that he would die among sinners having no sin himself , that he would rise up again after he died , that he would ascend to the right hand of God the annointed king forever .
That he would return one day to destroy the earth with fire but save those who pur thier trust in him that he would create a new earth and new heavens and new people with new hearts and new spirits who were able to walk in his judgements not Moses judgements but Christs of the new covenant
Im in no way suggesting “ a Jewish man is God “ I’m suggesting that God is a spirit and when the time has come and mankind was lost to sin and death he saw it and it displeased him that man had lost judgement and was bound in sin and death that we had no mediator and so he took upon himself the flesh of man because none was worthy and became the man the first man of the e new and eternal creation Jesus Christ the son of man according to the flesh and begotten son of God according to the spirit
The son doesn’t disappear afterwards but becomes one with God afterwards as he was beforehand he is eternally one with God in the beginning throughout eternity but we needed a man now we have a man of God literally
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; ( God had become a man promised all along ) who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
1 Timothy 2:5-6 KJV
then he rose up
“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
Mark 16:19
“Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, Upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself.”
Psalm 80:17 KJV
“Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.”
Luke 22:69
“fully god and fully man “ because he became a man never ceasing to be God in heaven but became a man on earth who returned to heaven and so this
“Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke. So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.”( the gospel )
Isaiah 59:15-17, 19-21 KJV
has become this now
“Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
Romans 8:34 KJV
We have an intercessor now that gave his perfect life to cover our imperfect life who is our advocate with God
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
1 John 2:1-2 KJV
In the Old Testament before he became that man and intercessor and mediator we only had satan accusing man at Gods right hand
“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.”
Revelation 12:10 KJV
We’ve gone from having an accuser to him bekng cat out of he’s en and replaced with a man who lives perfectly and is our advocate , our representative with God , one worthy to stand in his presence a man without sin
God created the perfect intercessor because there wasn’t any in all mankind unto us a savior was born who is all sufficient
It tells us he this man who would be. Ron of a virgin the lord of heaven and earth , would receive the spirit ofGod that God would declare the decree “this is my son “ and that Christ would speak Gods everlasting words and judgements to the world
that he would do miracles among the people that he would extend his new covenant to all nations . That he would take upon himself the sins of the people , that he would die among sinners having no sin himself , that he would rise up again after he died , that he would ascend to the right hand of God the annointed king forever .
That he would return one day to destroy the earth with fire but save those who pur thier trust in him that he would create a new earth and new heavens and new people with new hearts and new spirits who were able to walk in his judgements not Moses judgements but Christs of the new covenant
Im in no way suggesting “ a Jewish man is God “ I’m suggesting that God is a spirit and when the time has come and mankind was lost to sin and death he saw it and it displeased him that man had lost judgement and was bound in sin and death that we had no mediator and so he took upon himself the flesh of man because none was worthy and became the man the first man of the e new and eternal creation Jesus Christ the son of man according to the flesh and begotten son of God according to the spirit
The son doesn’t disappear afterwards but becomes one with God afterwards as he was beforehand he is eternally one with God in the beginning throughout eternity but we needed a man now we have a man of God literally
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; ( God had become a man promised all along ) who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
1 Timothy 2:5-6 KJV
then he rose up
“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
Mark 16:19
“Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, Upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself.”
Psalm 80:17 KJV
“Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.”
Luke 22:69
“fully god and fully man “ because he became a man never ceasing to be God in heaven but became a man on earth who returned to heaven and so this
“Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke. So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.”( the gospel )
Isaiah 59:15-17, 19-21 KJV
has become this now
“Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
Romans 8:34 KJV
We have an intercessor now that gave his perfect life to cover our imperfect life who is our advocate with God
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
1 John 2:1-2 KJV
In the Old Testament before he became that man and intercessor and mediator we only had satan accusing man at Gods right hand
“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.”
Revelation 12:10 KJV
We’ve gone from having an accuser to him bekng cat out of he’s en and replaced with a man who lives perfectly and is our advocate , our representative with God , one worthy to stand in his presence a man without sin
God created the perfect intercessor because there wasn’t any in all mankind unto us a savior was born who is all sufficient
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But he didn't die the second death. He died the first death which is the same death we still have to die so it is false to say Christ died in our place. He died in the place of the sacrificial Lamb, as that Lamb. He paid that price so people can repent of sins and ask to be forgiven. No longer do people have to wait on priests, and the killing of animals on certain days etc. The process have been simplified and perfected so forgiveness can happen at any time, anywhere by anyone who believes. That was not the case before the cross.
Technically I agree that He replaced the lamb. But His death does make it so we don't taste the 2nd death, so I don't have a problem with the euphemism.
As far as forgiveness, I disagree. I recognize that the OT speaks of sins being covered and not forgiven. But the fulfillment of forgiveness as a result of the cross is not necessary for forgiveness...only its promise. That's why we can be spoken of as being in Him before the foundation of the world. God's intention to bring a thing to pass is sufficient.
As far as forgiveness, I disagree. I recognize that the OT speaks of sins being covered and not forgiven. But the fulfillment of forgiveness as a result of the cross is not necessary for forgiveness...only its promise. That's why we can be spoken of as being in Him before the foundation of the world. God's intention to bring a thing to pass is sufficient.
This simply isn't true.
Lev_4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.
Lev_4:26 And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev_4:35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev_5:10 And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev_5:13 And the priest shall make an atonement for him as touching his sin that he hath sinned in one of these, and it shall be forgiven him: and the remnant shall be the priest's, as a meat offering.
Lev_19:22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.
Num_15:25 And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:
Lev_4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.
Lev_4:26 And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev_4:35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev_5:10 And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev_5:13 And the priest shall make an atonement for him as touching his sin that he hath sinned in one of these, and it shall be forgiven him: and the remnant shall be the priest's, as a meat offering.
Lev_19:22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.
Num_15:25 And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance: