All Of Israel, Or Just A Remnant?

[p_rehbein]

context

1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11For there is no respect of persons with God.

12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

 

[p_rehbein]

Jews who die in unbelief will NOT be saved. ALL who desire eternal life MUST confess the name of Jesus as the promised Messiah, Lord and Savior who shed His precious blood for the sins of all mankind who freely choose to believe in Him,

 

[p_rehbein]

Romans, Chapter 11:

16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Those who die in unbelief WILL NOT be saved. PERIOD,.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Those who die in unbelief WILL NOT be saved. PERIOD,.

Correct. "The good olive tree" mentioned by Paul is BELIEVING Israel. The "branches of the wild olive tree" are BELIEVING Gentiles, grafted into the good olive tree. So together they make up the Church, the Body of Christ, with Jew and Gentile within that one Body without any ethnic distinctions. It took the supreme sacrifice and the shed blood of Christ to accomplish this, and the Church was a "mystery" hidden from the OT prophets.

But what happened since Augustine (and others) is that Replacement Theology rejected the future redemption of the Jews after the Second Coming of Christ. The prophecies pertaining to Israel were therefore applied (or misapplied) to the Church, even though Romans 11 makes it crystal clear that "Jacob" will be redeemed. All the Reformers were under the influence of Augustine, and allowed their theology to become unbiblical. Then the preachers in the Reformed tradition since then never questioned any of that, and simply took it at face value.

The nation-state of Israel is secular, and Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox Jews are still unbelievers. Many are getting saved and becoming Messianic Jews, but refusing to fellowship with Gentile churches. But after the Second Coming, Christ and God will gather all Jews from all around the world and bring them to Israel. They will see their true Messiah, and many will repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Jewish believers at that time will represent the twelve tribes of Israel, and God knows exactly who they are. Then they will be given their portions of land in greater Israel (from the Nile to the Euphrates). All of this sounds like fantasy, except that it is what God has revealed, so it must also come to pass. In the meantime Gentile believers are exhorted not to be high-minded against unbelieving Jews.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
7:23-25 This passage does not represent the apostle as one that walked after the flesh, but as one that had it greatly at heart, not to walk so. And if there are those who abuse this passage, as they also do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction, yet serious Christians find cause to bless God for having thus provided for their support and comfort. We are not, because of the abuse of such as are blinded by their own lusts, to find fault with the scripture, or any just and well warranted interpretation of it. And no man who is not engaged in this conflict, can clearly understand the meaning of these words, or rightly judge concerning this painful conflict, which led the apostle to bemoan himself as a wretched man, constrained to what he abhorred. He could not deliver himself; and this made him the more fervently thank God for the way of salvation revealed through Jesus Christ, which promised him, in the end, deliverance from this enemy. So then, says he, I myself, with my mind, my prevailing judgement, affections, and purposes, as a regenerate man, by Divine grace, serve and obey the law of God; but with the flesh, the carnal nature, the remains of depravity, I serve the law of sin, which wars against the law of my mind. Not serving it so as to live in it, or to allow it, but as unable to free himself from it, even in his very best state, and needing to look for help and deliverance out of himself. It is evident that he thanks God for Christ, as our deliverer, as our atonement and righteousness in himself, and not because of any holiness wrought in us. He knew of no such salvation, and disowned any such title to it. He was willing to act in all points agreeable to the law, in his mind and conscience, but was hindered by indwelling sin, and never attained the perfection the law requires. What can be deliverance for a man always sinful, but the free grace of God, as offered in Christ Jesus? The power of Divine grace, and of the Holy Spirit, could root out sin from our hearts even in this life, if Divine wisdom had not otherwise thought fit. But it is suffered, that Christians might constantly feel, and understand thoroughly, the wretched state from which Divine grace saves them; might be kept from trusting in themselves; and might ever hold all their consolation and hope, from the rich and free grace of God in Christ.

Henry makes it clear that all those who abide in unbelief are lost. Not saved.

I suppose a person can find commentaries to support any false doctrine out there.

That is why I use only the scriptures to prove themselves with the help of Strong's concordance. If all of the scriptures do not harmonize, you are not understand the doctrine of Jesus Christ.

 

[Magenta]

Galatians 5:4 and 6b ~ You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. All that matters is faith, expressed through love.

 

[Cameron143]

Galatians 5:4 and 6b ~ You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. All that matters is faith, expressed through love.

That guy looks like he would never lose a staring contest.

 

[7thMoon]

Galatians 5:4 and 6b ~ You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. All that matters is faith, expressed through love.

While informative, that is my point. Obedience to the laws justifies rather than the law's works.

[Galatians 5:4-6 KJV] 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

 

[TabinRivCA]

That guy looks like he would never lose a staring contest.

I'll give it a try😂

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Jews who die in unbelief will NOT be saved. ALL who desire eternal life MUST confess the name of Jesus as the promised Messiah, Lord and Savior who shed His precious blood for the sins of all mankind who freely choose to believe in Him,

You are embracing the false doctrine of eternal salvation by works. The scriptures that contain references to salvation's that you are quoting, for the most part, are referencing deliverance's that the born again child of God receives by doing good works.

Use your Strong's concordance to determine that most of the salvation scriptures are referencing deliverance's. All of those that the Father gave to his Son to redeem them from their sins are delivered (saved) eternally, and are promised an inheritance of eternal heaven, without the lose of one (John 6:37-40). This is a one time deliverance, Jesus saying that it is finished, and there will be nom sacrifice for sin.

All of the other references to the salvation scriptures are pertaining to deliverance's that the born again child of God receives as he sojourns here on earth, by his good works.

There is a deliverance, here on earth, when a born again child of God comes unto a knowledge of the truth (Rom 10:1-3) (1 Tim 2:1-4) (Luke 1:77) (Eph 4:13) (Col 1:9) (2 Tim 3:7).

 

[Magenta]

I'll give it a try 😂

If anyone should it would be you! LOL (since I designed a panel with a male face as a result of your urging .).

PS~ that's the only new one I have started this year, though I have done some editing of older ones more recently...

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So sins that haven't been paid for are forgiven?

All sin is paid for Jesus gave us a way to be forgiven

“This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:5-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

David committed adultery and many other things after but he learned

“When I kept silence, my bones waxed old Through my roaring all the day long. For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: My moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah. I acknowledged my sin unto thee, And mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; And thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭32:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: According unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, And cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions: And my sin is ever before me. Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: And in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom. Create in me a clean heart, O God; And renew a right spirit within me.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭51:1-3, 6, 10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: A broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭51:17‬ ‭KJV‬

when we realize we’ve sinned we really do need to confess and deal with it between ourselves and God in repentance it should bother us alot when we realize we’re sinning that will lead to repentance acknowledging our sins in prayer to God is really a part of our doctrine

“Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. …..Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭55:3, 6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

repentence and confession is a doctrine for when we realize we have sinned. Our goal of course is to live upright lives in his Will and not in the devils Will ( sin ) but sometimes we fall short for various reasons when we do we can deal with it like Jesus and the word teaches us and he takes away the sin he died for on the cross

Because he died his ways of dealing with sin are also the ways we need to accept

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s important that it’s a teaching of Christ . a teaching about our father in heaven it’s the son teaching the children about thier fathers ways of mercy and truth and forgiveness.

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you know those scriptures “ whatever you bind in earth shall be bound in heaven ? That’s how it’s applied if we bind sin to others who sin against us and judge them and condemn them , we’re judging ourselves that way in the end. It’s how we’ll be treated by Jesus who taught those things

confessing our sins is the same. If you did a wrong to someone in your life you really loved , you would feel bad and you would address it and say I was wrong , forgive me ect ….. we shouldn’t think we’re lost forever because we sinned yesterday , but should accept the things Jesus taught regarding sin and forgivness also

hes not condemning us but teaching repentance and giving us grace and forbearance when we fail but still believe and continue on

 

[TabinRivCA]

If anyone should it would be you! LOL (since I designed a panel with a male face as a result of your urging .).

PS~ that's the only new one I have started this year, though I have done some editing of older ones more recently...

You're off to a good start Mags😀 and I like the verse he's quoting... 'all that matters is faith expressed through love' 😍👍

 

[Magenta]

You're off to a good start Mags😀 and I like the verse he's quoting... 'all that matters is faith expressed through love' 😍👍

Thanks, Tabs! I'm startin' to itch to get back to designing again...

Got a verse suggestion?

 

[Cameron143]

All sin is paid for Jesus gave us a way to be forgiven

“This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:5-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

David committed adultery and many other things after but he learned

“When I kept silence, my bones waxed old Through my roaring all the day long. For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: My moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah. I acknowledged my sin unto thee, And mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; And thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭32:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: According unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, And cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions: And my sin is ever before me. Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: And in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom. Create in me a clean heart, O God; And renew a right spirit within me.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭51:1-3, 6, 10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: A broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭51:17‬ ‭KJV‬

when we realize we’ve sinned we really do need to confess and deal with it between ourselves and God in repentance it should bother us alot when we realize we’re sinning that will lead to repentance acknowledging our sins in prayer to God is really a part of our doctrine

“Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. …..Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭55:3, 6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

repentence and confession is a doctrine for when we realize we have sinned. Our goal of course is to live upright lives in his Will and not in the devils Will ( sin ) but sometimes we fall short for various reasons when we do we can deal with it like Jesus and the word teaches us and he takes away the sin he died for on the cross

Because he died his ways of dealing with sin are also the ways we need to accept

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s important that it’s a teaching of Christ . a teaching about our father in heaven it’s the son teaching the children about thier fathers ways of mercy and truth and forgiveness.

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you know those scriptures “ whatever you bind in earth shall be bound in heaven ? That’s how it’s applied if we bind sin to others who sin against us and judge them and condemn them , we’re judging ourselves that way in the end. It’s how we’ll be treated by Jesus who taught those things

confessing our sins is the same. If you did a wrong to someone in your life you really loved , you would feel bad and you would address it and say I was wrong , forgive me ect ….. we shouldn’t think we’re lost forever because we sinned yesterday , but should accept the things Jesus taught regarding sin and forgivness also

hes not condemning us but teaching repentance and giving us grace and forbearance when we fail but still believe and continue on

Thanks for the response. I was asking a particular poster who was saying the basis for forgiveness was confession and not the cross.

 

[TabinRivCA]

Thanks, Tabs! I'm startin' to itch to get back to designing again...

Got a verse suggestion?

Not at a loss there, lol, I'll get back to you on that😄

 

[Magenta]

Not at a loss there, lol, I'll get back to you on that😄

Yes, there are so many! LOL. I tend to go for those that speak to contentious issues...

Or simply positive, encouraging, uplifting.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Again. That's what it says. In this case, the meaning escapes you.

God the Son existed before time and space. He was not a Jew. He also did not have the flesh of a man. In the fullness of time, He appeared in the earth as a Jew. He died as a Jew. BUT He was resurrected with a different body, not the natural body given to Him by His mother. He was raised with an incorruptible body.

Christ is not a Jew. Christ is the preeminent Spirit that existed before time began.

P.S. Not even curious about "son of David" passage? That's not a natural lineage. He was not David's natural son by the flesh. So, what's the meaning here? Certainly not saying that David was his natural father, right?

“God the Son existed before time and space. He was not a Jew.”

God created everything then the same God who is a spirit became a man . a man born of the tribe of Judah

i don’t think I’m the one who doesn’t inderrrsnd this one dear brother God is Jesus he hadn’t become a man until he was born …..a man the son of God Jesus of Nazareth. It’s God o came to be among us finally like he always told israel.

they are one and the same the father in heaven and the son on earth . Seems basic to me Gods is one and he is fully manifest in Jesus Christ whomis God in the flesh of man

“ God the son “ doesn’t appear anywhere in the Bible. “The son of God “ appears in the Bible first it appears here

“which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But the point is

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, ( mankind ) he also himself likewise took part of the same; ( he became a man the son ) that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:14‬

Look here it’s simple

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He became flesh and blood a man born in Bethlehem of the tribe of Judah of the line of David the line of Abraham the line of Noah the line of Seth ……God became a man that’s who Jesus is before he was born the so. Hadn’t been manifest he was foreordained from the beginning but manifest in the gospel at the right time

The one and only God in the flesh Jesus Christ the son of God , was manifest offering salvation to mankind which he had become part of

 

[ewq1938]

Thanks for the response. I was asking a particular poster who was saying the basis for forgiveness was confession and not the cross.

Christ forgave sins before the cross.

 

[Magenta]

Christ forgave sins before the cross.

Had He paid the sin debt before the cross? Or just forgiven those who came to Him?