3 Reasons Jesus Did Not Go To Hell
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As I said earlier, He PROCLAIMED His victory at the cross. That word should have been "proclaimed" to keep things clear. Please note the following translations and their use of "proclaimed" or "made [a] proclamation":
English Standard Version
in which he went and proclaimed [Greek ἐκήρυξεν,ekēruxen]
to the spirits in prison,
New American Standard Bible
in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
Holman Christian Standard Bible [this is closest to what is said. Not "a proclamation"]
In that state He also went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison
International Standard Version
in which he went and made a proclamation to those imprisoned spirits
Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
ἐν ᾧ καὶ τοῖς ἐν φυλακῇ πνεύμασιν πορευθεὶς ἐκήρυξεν
Strong's Concordance
kérussó: to be a herald, proclaim
Original Word: κηρύσσω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kérussó
Phonetic Spelling: (kay-roos'-so)
Definition: to be a herald, proclaim
Usage: I proclaim, herald, preach.
The English word "preach" is generally understood as applicable to preaching the Gospel. But the Gospel cannot benefit anyone in Hades.
English Standard Version
in which he went and proclaimed [Greek ἐκήρυξεν,ekēruxen]
to the spirits in prison,
New American Standard Bible
in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
Holman Christian Standard Bible [this is closest to what is said. Not "a proclamation"]
In that state He also went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison
International Standard Version
in which he went and made a proclamation to those imprisoned spirits
Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
ἐν ᾧ καὶ τοῖς ἐν φυλακῇ πνεύμασιν πορευθεὶς ἐκήρυξεν
Strong's Concordance
kérussó: to be a herald, proclaim
Original Word: κηρύσσω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kérussó
Phonetic Spelling: (kay-roos'-so)
Definition: to be a herald, proclaim
Usage: I proclaim, herald, preach.
The English word "preach" is generally understood as applicable to preaching the Gospel. But the Gospel cannot benefit anyone in Hades.
Ephesians 4 is referring to the incarnation, not Jesus going to hell. Jesus came to earth to give gifts to men and ascended back to heaven to fill all things.
The Greek word in the Acts 2 text is “hades” which is “the abode of the dead.” It corresponds to the Hebrew word Sheol. It is not talking about hell.
Yes, Jesus holds the keys to hell and death because he is the Judge and victor over sin and the grave. Jesus did not go to hell. No text teaches this.
In fact, Jesus told the thief on the cross, “This day you will be with me in paradise.”
The Old Testament saints did not go to hell or the underworld either. In fact, in the transfiguration, the saints are present with Jesus. He is not the God of the dead, but the living. Revelation pictures the saints in the throne room of God crying out to God, “How long O Lord?” Elijah rode a flaming chariot to heaven.
Hell is a place of torment for the wicked. The righteous do not go there, nor do they belong there. Jesus did not have to go to a place of torment for the wicked in order to defeat death and be the perfect sacrifice for our sins. None of the verses you cited teach that Jesus went to hell.
Fair enough, it is my belief. But because I believe it I think it’s fair for me to say that he didn’t. I think posting it on a thread for discussion shows I understand not all will accept my position on it. However, I still havent seen anyone actually answer the objections I have laid out. The basic response is that he did or an attempt to cite other verses. I havent seen anyone respond to why I think this text clearly isn’t teaching this doctrine. It makes no sense in the context. The spirit of Christ is clearly a reference to the Holy Spirit as seen in chapter 1, and there is no reason for Jesus to preach to the condemned since they are condemned and cannot repent. However, the much simpler reading that makes contextual sense is that the Spirit that raised Christ preached to the condemned in Noahs day. They did not listen and Noah was delivered. Just as the wicked often do not listen to the message of Christ’s salvation today and yet Christians will be delievered. Seems like a very straight-forward reading. I dont see any reason to inject Jesus in hell from this text. The text simply doesn’t teach it.
This has been helpful in working out that which I had initially thought as those Christ went and preached to in the spirit as were considered "as good as" in prison because of their disobedience. That is, these were in a sort of bondage and the preaching was done with the intent to set them free. Although I don't think that is very far off from what it appears that you have summarized it.
18For Christ also sufferedd for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit, 19in whome He also went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.
Footnote:
18 d NE and WH died
19 e Or in the spirit, 19in which
That is, Christ went in the Spirit and preached to the spirits (currently) in prison (and they are currently in prison because they were they) who disobeyed long ago (dto be read these disobeyed long ago and not that Christ preached to them while they were in prison since they didn't enter prison until they died) when God waited patiently (for them to obey the word that Noah preached (what God told him and witnessed by the Spirit which those, except the eight, disregarded and so drowned in the flood and are now "in prison" awaiting judgment.
If I have accurately understood your view, I can't find any fault nor fissure to dispute it.
18For Christ also sufferedd for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit, 19in whome He also went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.
Footnote:
18 d NE and WH died
19 e Or in the spirit, 19in which
That is, Christ went in the Spirit and preached to the spirits (currently) in prison (and they are currently in prison because they were they) who disobeyed long ago (dto be read these disobeyed long ago and not that Christ preached to them while they were in prison since they didn't enter prison until they died) when God waited patiently (for them to obey the word that Noah preached (what God told him and witnessed by the Spirit which those, except the eight, disregarded and so drowned in the flood and are now "in prison" awaiting judgment.
If I have accurately understood your view, I can't find any fault nor fissure to dispute it.
It is a requirement of God that children honour their father and their mother. It is a command to put to death those children who do not. Now that Torah Law position is so plain that it seems almost unjust. I also believe that this same sense of 'injustice' would have existed in the days of Noah. How many children perished outside the belly of the Arc?
I know children that lost their lives with their parents on the mission field in Muslim countries. And parents who hearing the violent men arriving in their village told their children that when they see the blood of their parents in front of their eyes then they should yield themselves up to the Lord and let His will be done. That seems unimaginable, appalling and easily leads to anger and a strong fist towards God because of it. So what then of those who waited patiently in the days of Noah?
The mercy of the Lord triumphs over his judgements.
If we as His servants have not yet fathomed that in this world millions of children and young people suffer precisely because of the decisions and sins of their parents then we are unimaginably deceived that the God we serve does not make a way for those who are obedient, even when obedience is no more than obeying our parents when we were children. When our parents refused to repent in the days of Noah, shall we not look to God if we know of Him and know that 'their' children - all under the age of accountability persisted because they were compelled to obey their parents and could not turn away from them.
Isn't that what the Lord taught His disciples when they sough to drive the little children away from Him? Unless we are in that mind as a child then were are no more fit for the coming kingdom than are the parents of those children who lost their lives in the days of Noah likely to find an entry therein when Christ preached liberty to their children in captivity waiting patiently.
The very same in the Sinai. Let God be true though every man be found a liar.
I know children that lost their lives with their parents on the mission field in Muslim countries. And parents who hearing the violent men arriving in their village told their children that when they see the blood of their parents in front of their eyes then they should yield themselves up to the Lord and let His will be done. That seems unimaginable, appalling and easily leads to anger and a strong fist towards God because of it. So what then of those who waited patiently in the days of Noah?
The mercy of the Lord triumphs over his judgements.
If we as His servants have not yet fathomed that in this world millions of children and young people suffer precisely because of the decisions and sins of their parents then we are unimaginably deceived that the God we serve does not make a way for those who are obedient, even when obedience is no more than obeying our parents when we were children. When our parents refused to repent in the days of Noah, shall we not look to God if we know of Him and know that 'their' children - all under the age of accountability persisted because they were compelled to obey their parents and could not turn away from them.
Isn't that what the Lord taught His disciples when they sough to drive the little children away from Him? Unless we are in that mind as a child then were are no more fit for the coming kingdom than are the parents of those children who lost their lives in the days of Noah likely to find an entry therein when Christ preached liberty to their children in captivity waiting patiently.
The very same in the Sinai. Let God be true though every man be found a liar.
.
In the story told at Luke 16:19-31, there's a rich man dead and buried (Luke
19:22) and there's the patriarch Abraham dead and buried. (Gen 25:9)
Well, the thing is: the rich man is able to see from his grave over to
Abraham's grave, and they are able to communicate by voice from grave to
grave. I am very curious how Abraham deceased, and the other guy
deceased, are able to communicate with one another at all let alone through
the ground like that.
Now, according to Solomon's world view, the dead know nothing (Ecc 9:10)
yet here in Luke we find the rich man deceased, and Abraham deceased, are
both no less sentient beyond death than they were while in life.
There's a diseased pauper in the story whose remains, when he passed
away, were apparently transported by celestial beings to a burial with
Abraham when it's far more likely the pauper's corpse was disposed in a city
dump for incineration: yet there he is beyond death not only interred with
Abraham, but also embraced in a hug with him who's also beyond death.
● Luke 16:22-23 . . The rich man died and was buried, and he lifted up his
eyes and saw Lazarus.
Just exactly how is it that the rich man could both see and recognize Lazarus
from below ground when quite possibly the pauper's remains were above
ground incinerated in a dump? How it is that a dead man's eyes are in any
way functional at all? Aren't graves supposedly pitch black dark? Are dead
folks equipped with night vision or maybe even X-ray vision so they can see
thru the ground into other graves?
Now; at some point during his nautical adventure, Jonah was taken to a
place identified as sheol (Jonah 2:2) which he located at the bottoms of the
mountains. (Jonah 2:6)
Well; the bottoms of the mountains aren't located in the tummies of fish, nor
are they located under the sea, no; they're located deep underground. So,
the only way that Jonah could possibly be at the bottoms of the mountains
while simultaneously in a fish's tummy was for the man and his body to part
company and go their separate ways.
Also, the language of Jonah's recorded prayer strongly suggests that he
underwent a resurrection.
"But out of the pit you proceeded to bring up my life, O Jehovah my God."
(Jonah 2:6)
The Hebrew word for "pit" in that verse speaks of putrefaction. The very
same Hebrew word is located in Ps 16:8-10, which Acts 2:25-31 verifies is
speaking of a dead body.
FAQ: Why should we care whether Jonah was dead or alive?
REPLY: There are missionaries at large insisting human life is entirely physical, viz:
when people die they go completely out of existence. But Jonah's prayer
--not the one he prayed from inside the fish, rather, the one he prayed while
down at the bottoms of the mountains-- strongly suggests that he existed
beyond death; which likewise strongly suggests Jesus existed beyond death
too because he likened his own afterlife experience to Jonah's.
● Matt 12:40 . . Just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of
the sea monster, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in
the heart of the earth.
Now when you think about it, Jesus' crucified dead body wasn't laid to rest in
the heart of the earth. In point of fact it was laid to rest up on the surface;
and even then not in the earth's soil but was above the soil in a rock tomb.
So in order for Jesus to be in two places simultaneously, the man and his
remains had to part company and go their separate ways; the same as in
Jonah's adventure.
_
In the story told at Luke 16:19-31, there's a rich man dead and buried (Luke
19:22) and there's the patriarch Abraham dead and buried. (Gen 25:9)
Well, the thing is: the rich man is able to see from his grave over to
Abraham's grave, and they are able to communicate by voice from grave to
grave. I am very curious how Abraham deceased, and the other guy
deceased, are able to communicate with one another at all let alone through
the ground like that.
Now, according to Solomon's world view, the dead know nothing (Ecc 9:10)
yet here in Luke we find the rich man deceased, and Abraham deceased, are
both no less sentient beyond death than they were while in life.
There's a diseased pauper in the story whose remains, when he passed
away, were apparently transported by celestial beings to a burial with
Abraham when it's far more likely the pauper's corpse was disposed in a city
dump for incineration: yet there he is beyond death not only interred with
Abraham, but also embraced in a hug with him who's also beyond death.
● Luke 16:22-23 . . The rich man died and was buried, and he lifted up his
eyes and saw Lazarus.
Just exactly how is it that the rich man could both see and recognize Lazarus
from below ground when quite possibly the pauper's remains were above
ground incinerated in a dump? How it is that a dead man's eyes are in any
way functional at all? Aren't graves supposedly pitch black dark? Are dead
folks equipped with night vision or maybe even X-ray vision so they can see
thru the ground into other graves?
Now; at some point during his nautical adventure, Jonah was taken to a
place identified as sheol (Jonah 2:2) which he located at the bottoms of the
mountains. (Jonah 2:6)
Well; the bottoms of the mountains aren't located in the tummies of fish, nor
are they located under the sea, no; they're located deep underground. So,
the only way that Jonah could possibly be at the bottoms of the mountains
while simultaneously in a fish's tummy was for the man and his body to part
company and go their separate ways.
Also, the language of Jonah's recorded prayer strongly suggests that he
underwent a resurrection.
"But out of the pit you proceeded to bring up my life, O Jehovah my God."
(Jonah 2:6)
The Hebrew word for "pit" in that verse speaks of putrefaction. The very
same Hebrew word is located in Ps 16:8-10, which Acts 2:25-31 verifies is
speaking of a dead body.
FAQ: Why should we care whether Jonah was dead or alive?
REPLY: There are missionaries at large insisting human life is entirely physical, viz:
when people die they go completely out of existence. But Jonah's prayer
--not the one he prayed from inside the fish, rather, the one he prayed while
down at the bottoms of the mountains-- strongly suggests that he existed
beyond death; which likewise strongly suggests Jesus existed beyond death
too because he likened his own afterlife experience to Jonah's.
● Matt 12:40 . . Just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of
the sea monster, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in
the heart of the earth.
Now when you think about it, Jesus' crucified dead body wasn't laid to rest in
the heart of the earth. In point of fact it was laid to rest up on the surface;
and even then not in the earth's soil but was above the soil in a rock tomb.
So in order for Jesus to be in two places simultaneously, the man and his
remains had to part company and go their separate ways; the same as in
Jonah's adventure.
_
Psa 63:9 But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth.
Hell is in the lower parts of the earth.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Death and hell are thrown in to the lake of fire so hell is not the lake of fire it is only a temporary holding place for the wicked until they go to the lake of fire.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
The devils will be cast to earth where it becomes their holding cell which Satan is no longer the prince of the power of the air.
And the devils deceive all people who love not the truth which is the strong delusion God will send all people who love not the truth but have pleasure in unrighteousness.
All wicked people and wicked angels are confined to the earth which at the end of the millennial reign of Christ the earth is thrown in to the lake of fire.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
The earth shall be burned up and all the works of it, and the heavens shall melt with fervent heat for they are tainted with sin and all sin must be purged with fire.
Which the saints receive the Holy Spirit and with fire to purge them.
Jesus conquered hell not the lake of fire for no person can come out of there seeing their judgement is permanent with no reversal.
I say this in case someone thinks hell is the lake of fire for Jesus did not go to conquer the lake of fire.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Jesus came to fulfill the law but He has not fulfilled the role of perfect King which must be done on earth, and when He fulfills that role then heaven and earth shall pass away.
That is what the millennial reign is about and why God spared some of the people at the battle of Armageddon for Jesus must rule over people in flesh for they pertain to the earth.
And when heaven and earth pass away then there will be a new heaven, and a new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, nor come to mind.
And then we will not remember ever being on earth, and will not remember and of our friends, and family, and will not remember being on Christian Chat, and will feel as if we have always been at the New Jerusalem, and nowhere else, as well as the angels.
For God does not us to remember the earth, and does not want the angels to know of the past for it is associated with sin, and rebellion, which the New Jerusalem will be a place where sin has never been and sin will never be, and all sin has been dealt with by fire by the former earth being burned up, and the heavens melting.
Hell is in the lower parts of the earth.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Death and hell are thrown in to the lake of fire so hell is not the lake of fire it is only a temporary holding place for the wicked until they go to the lake of fire.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
The devils will be cast to earth where it becomes their holding cell which Satan is no longer the prince of the power of the air.
And the devils deceive all people who love not the truth which is the strong delusion God will send all people who love not the truth but have pleasure in unrighteousness.
All wicked people and wicked angels are confined to the earth which at the end of the millennial reign of Christ the earth is thrown in to the lake of fire.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
The earth shall be burned up and all the works of it, and the heavens shall melt with fervent heat for they are tainted with sin and all sin must be purged with fire.
Which the saints receive the Holy Spirit and with fire to purge them.
Jesus conquered hell not the lake of fire for no person can come out of there seeing their judgement is permanent with no reversal.
I say this in case someone thinks hell is the lake of fire for Jesus did not go to conquer the lake of fire.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Jesus came to fulfill the law but He has not fulfilled the role of perfect King which must be done on earth, and when He fulfills that role then heaven and earth shall pass away.
That is what the millennial reign is about and why God spared some of the people at the battle of Armageddon for Jesus must rule over people in flesh for they pertain to the earth.
And when heaven and earth pass away then there will be a new heaven, and a new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, nor come to mind.
And then we will not remember ever being on earth, and will not remember and of our friends, and family, and will not remember being on Christian Chat, and will feel as if we have always been at the New Jerusalem, and nowhere else, as well as the angels.
For God does not us to remember the earth, and does not want the angels to know of the past for it is associated with sin, and rebellion, which the New Jerusalem will be a place where sin has never been and sin will never be, and all sin has been dealt with by fire by the former earth being burned up, and the heavens melting.
Yes, sounds like you got it.
Christ’s Spirit (in Noah) preached salvation to —> the disobedient.
The disobedient rejected are now in prison -> Noah was saved through water.
Christ’s Spirit (in us) preaches salvation to -> the disobedient.
The disobedient still reject and persecute us -> Baptism saves us.
Christ’s Spirit (in Noah) preached salvation to —> the disobedient.
The disobedient rejected are now in prison -> Noah was saved through water.
Christ’s Spirit (in us) preaches salvation to -> the disobedient.
The disobedient still reject and persecute us -> Baptism saves us.
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The prison part is right, the rest isn't. After dying Christ went to that prison so the ones there could be judged.
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Christ preached not to living physical men in prison but spirits in prison and Christ had to go there to them (went there) and this in the context where his death is mentioned. At death a spirit leaves the body and either goes to prison or to heaven.
Yes, the spirits of those who were disobedient in the face of God’s long suffering and waiting are now in prison. The point is that the baptized are saved and are now preaching to those who will also one day find their spirits in prison due to their persecution and mistreatment of the righteous. This is why the righteous should endure with the same long suffering and patience as we see in the life and preaching of Noah.
Again, if you think this is talking about Jesus preaching to condemned souls, you need to explain why this makes sense in this particular context. Why would Jesus preach to the condemned and how would this preaching be an encouragement to those who are currently suffering for righteousness‘ sake? I am still waiting for someone to explain the rationale behind this view making contextual sense.
Again, if you think this is talking about Jesus preaching to condemned souls, you need to explain why this makes sense in this particular context. Why would Jesus preach to the condemned and how would this preaching be an encouragement to those who are currently suffering for righteousness‘ sake? I am still waiting for someone to explain the rationale behind this view making contextual sense.
I think what you may be looking for is a Thesis.
So what about the kids in the days of Noah?
So let's just keep the chronology to 120 Yrs and estimate how many children were alive in the days of Noah who would never have gotten into the Arc no matter how they pleaded. What of those? What of those children? Were they not also in prison as their parents whom they obeyed? And please do NOT tell me you don't understand the question. Right?
So what about the kids in the days of Noah?
So let's just keep the chronology to 120 Yrs and estimate how many children were alive in the days of Noah who would never have gotten into the Arc no matter how they pleaded. What of those? What of those children? Were they not also in prison as their parents whom they obeyed? And please do NOT tell me you don't understand the question. Right?
A thesis? About what?
Are you suggesting God was unjust in His actions? Also, how do you know anyone was pleading to get into the ark? It seems you are saying that because the kids were unjustly condemned, Jesus was giving them a second chance to be freed from the spiritual prison.
First, I would say that proposing that the children of the disobedient in the days of Noah were the objects of Christ’s preaching (pretending for a moment that this text is referring to that) is pure speculation. It seems you are suggesting that they were somewhat innocent in this judgment so Jesus was giving them a second chance? If that is your argument, i can only say that it seems like pure conjecture so I dont know how else to approach it other than to say the text says nothing of the sort.
Second, I would argue that children do not go to hell or spiritual prisons. Jesus referred to children as the types of people who make up the kingdom of heaven. So, I dont believe in the doctrine of “original sin” in that regard. As a result, not only would I reject the idea of Jesus preaching to them beyond the grave, I would reject the idea that they would be in prison with the disobedient in the first place.
Are you suggesting God was unjust in His actions? Also, how do you know anyone was pleading to get into the ark? It seems you are saying that because the kids were unjustly condemned, Jesus was giving them a second chance to be freed from the spiritual prison.
First, I would say that proposing that the children of the disobedient in the days of Noah were the objects of Christ’s preaching (pretending for a moment that this text is referring to that) is pure speculation. It seems you are suggesting that they were somewhat innocent in this judgment so Jesus was giving them a second chance? If that is your argument, i can only say that it seems like pure conjecture so I dont know how else to approach it other than to say the text says nothing of the sort.
Second, I would argue that children do not go to hell or spiritual prisons. Jesus referred to children as the types of people who make up the kingdom of heaven. So, I dont believe in the doctrine of “original sin” in that regard. As a result, not only would I reject the idea of Jesus preaching to them beyond the grave, I would reject the idea that they would be in prison with the disobedient in the first place.
My point was not to make a force for argument or a claimed belief, it was a simple rational point that many children (and I mean those who are NOT of the age of accountability - means ALL those under the age of 21 or if you prefer ALL those who are of 20 years and under. AND I stated previously that this designation is taken out of Sinai.
Now you tell me that the Children who were brought to be blessed by Jesus, by their parents and were refused by the disciples - THOSE children in kind - in YOUR nation who are now bankrupt, broken and utterly basal in their ambitions - even often in the churches also - so in your legal theorising IT presumes to know where the unaccountable children go to wait for their judgement when you hide behind an impedes of a claim that I am accusing God of being unjust. So I said before time (earlier in this thread for your mind to grasp) that God's mercy triumphs over his Judgement. Now you say that children are not accountable after all so you accuse me - 'are you saying that God is unjust?'
A beggarly escape you make you Magistrate of Reason when you refuse the children.
No I do NOT hold to the charismatic heresies when THEY blaspheme God and make of Him an imbibed Judge of women and children by making of women and children play things of necromancy and witchcraft. Haven't you seen the malice and the furore that is provoked by these charismatic brethren? Then neither will WE miss the fearful judgement of the Lord that is coming upon those whose compassion was to step away in reason from the mercy of God.
And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.
You laid down a claim previously that you could NOT see any reason why anyone would need to hear anything by Christ in the prison of the dead. So it would follow that every child who perished in the days of Noah not only lost their life, but have perished, else as you now say, children never go to hell.
Then on that seeming premise you had better explain the dominions of Death and Hell. You would also have to explain Paradise also. Both at the time of these proceedings (from the beginning until the resurrection of Christ from the dead) until the coming kingdom which will have no end.
Now you tell me that the Children who were brought to be blessed by Jesus, by their parents and were refused by the disciples - THOSE children in kind - in YOUR nation who are now bankrupt, broken and utterly basal in their ambitions - even often in the churches also - so in your legal theorising IT presumes to know where the unaccountable children go to wait for their judgement when you hide behind an impedes of a claim that I am accusing God of being unjust. So I said before time (earlier in this thread for your mind to grasp) that God's mercy triumphs over his Judgement. Now you say that children are not accountable after all so you accuse me - 'are you saying that God is unjust?'
A beggarly escape you make you Magistrate of Reason when you refuse the children.
No I do NOT hold to the charismatic heresies when THEY blaspheme God and make of Him an imbibed Judge of women and children by making of women and children play things of necromancy and witchcraft. Haven't you seen the malice and the furore that is provoked by these charismatic brethren? Then neither will WE miss the fearful judgement of the Lord that is coming upon those whose compassion was to step away in reason from the mercy of God.
And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.
You laid down a claim previously that you could NOT see any reason why anyone would need to hear anything by Christ in the prison of the dead. So it would follow that every child who perished in the days of Noah not only lost their life, but have perished, else as you now say, children never go to hell.
Then on that seeming premise you had better explain the dominions of Death and Hell. You would also have to explain Paradise also. Both at the time of these proceedings (from the beginning until the resurrection of Christ from the dead) until the coming kingdom which will have no end.
You said: Some believe this was between His death and HIs resurrection. Some believe the "spirits in prison" were fallen angels mentioned in 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6
Yes, that is what I believe. It is the theory that I think the most sense of the texts - and I admit it is just that - a theory. I believe it is tied in to Genesis 6:1-4 and the evil angels that sinned and cohabited with human women and produced the Nephilim. These angels were punished by God and put into Tartarus (see Jude 6). When Jesus went there and "preached" it was not a salvation message, but he simply proclaimed to them that their plan to corrupt human DNA (and thus keeping the Redeemer from being born) had failed.
Yes, that is what I believe. It is the theory that I think the most sense of the texts - and I admit it is just that - a theory. I believe it is tied in to Genesis 6:1-4 and the evil angels that sinned and cohabited with human women and produced the Nephilim. These angels were punished by God and put into Tartarus (see Jude 6). When Jesus went there and "preached" it was not a salvation message, but he simply proclaimed to them that their plan to corrupt human DNA (and thus keeping the Redeemer from being born) had failed.