Your Bible translation
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So which one of the commandment being referred to when God says thou shalt not kill or murder?
I also use the Celebrate Recovery Group leaders guide but double check the context almost every time I use something that I don't already have committed to memory. BTW, you're welcome.
FYI
I worked for EMR Telemetry for 40 years. My avatar is the NASA wind turbine at NASA Sandusky. I was assigned to help that location with its telemetry monitoring the wind turbines NASA was ordered to build investigating alternatives to fossil fuel. Went up in the nacelle many times working on the telemetry equipment. Thankfully I never had to work on the unit in the hub of the blades monitoring the flexing of the blades.
I worked for EMR Telemetry for 40 years. My avatar is the NASA wind turbine at NASA Sandusky. I was assigned to help that location with its telemetry monitoring the wind turbines NASA was ordered to build investigating alternatives to fossil fuel. Went up in the nacelle many times working on the telemetry equipment. Thankfully I never had to work on the unit in the hub of the blades monitoring the flexing of the blades.
The 6th commandment in many newer translations says Thou shall not commit murder rather than thou shalt not kill. Remember the Hebrew forces kill a lot of heathens to regain and keep the Holy land for God's people. It's ancient history but true.
Here are all ten of them. It gets obvious.
Exodus 20 New International Version (NIV)
The Ten Commandments
20 And God spoke all these words:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 “You shall have no other gods before me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
Here is the KJV translation.
Exodus 20 King James Version (KJV)
20 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Exodus 20 King James Version (KJV)
20 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Who cares if languages change. What did the word mean in the translation? Our language has been dummied down, modified and slangified that we don’t speak no English no mo. Should God’s word follow suit? Absolutely not. Study more diligently.
The two are used synonymously in English and the Scripture. For example, if a man shoots another man in front of a witness, the witness may say, "You killed him." That is true, but he will be charged with murder. Common sense and our English dictionaries demonstrate that these two words mean the same thing.
In Deuteronomy 19:4-6 we read: "Whoso KILLETH his neighbour IGNORANTLY, whom he hated not in time past, as when a man goeth into the wood with his neighbour to hew wood, and his hand fetcheth a stroke with the axe to cut down a tree, and the head slippeth from the helve, and lighteth upon his neighbour, that he die...he was not worthy of death, inasmuch as he hated him not in time past." So we see there is a difference between killing someone and killing someone accidentally. Just use some God given common sense.
Numbers 35:30 " Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die.
Numbers 35:31 Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death."
Notice that scripture defined what sort of killing God forbids.
"Who so killeth any person, THE MURDERER SHALL BE PUT TO DEATH..."
Even in your post you acknowledge the difference between kill and murder. Accidents happen and people get killed. That excludes murder where there is the premeditated killing. Definitions of kill and murder are important!! That is why modern translations say "You shall not murder while the KJV states" You shalt not kill." In 1611 kill meant murder!! Why do people ignore the fact that language changes over the years. Why do they think old English transformed into middle language and it transformed into modern English? Was a magic wand used or was there small incremental changes over centuries. 400 years has made many of the incremental changes!!
Are you insinuating we must have 100% comprehension of late 16th century British, to be saved or to save help save souls? I'd rather learn Spanish so I could witness to Hispanics.
There was absolutely no misunderstanding about what "kill" meant in the Ten Commandments shown in the KJV. Everyone understood that it meant murder, since there are also capital sins and crimes in the Law of Moses which are punishable by death. Also there were daily and periodic animal sacrifices. So to make a big deal out of this is puerile.
John Gill was using the King James Bible for his well known and widely accepted commentary. Here are his comments which make it perfectly clear that this is a non-issue.
Thou shalt not kill. Not meaning any sort of creatures, for there are some to be killed for the food and nourishment of men, and others for their safety and preservation; but rational creatures, men, women, and children, any of the human species, of every age, sex, condition, or nation; no man has a right to take away his own life, or the life of another; by this law is forbidden suicide, or self-murder, parricide or murder of parents, homicide or the murder of man; yet killing of men in lawful war, or in defence of a man's self, when his own life is in danger, or the execution of malefactors by the hands or order of the civil magistrate, and killing a man at unawares, without any design, are not to be reckoned breaches of this law; but taking away the life of another through private malice and revenge, and even stabbing of a man's character, and so all things tending to or designed for the taking away of life, and all plots, conspiracies, and contrivances for that purpose, even all sinful anger, undue wrath and envy, rancour of all mind, all malice in thought, word, or deed, are contrary to this precept, see Matthew 5:21 and which, on the other hand, requires that men should do all they can for the ease, peace, and preservation of the lives of men: this is the sixth command...
Right... he will be charged with murder, not killing.
The two words do not mean the same thing.
The National Adult Literacy Survey in 1992 and 2003 showed the following results:
The results show the average adult reads at the 9th-grade level. This accounts for the fact that the popular blockbuster novels are written at the 7th grade level. People like to read recreationally two grades below their actual reading skill. The average newspaper is written at the 11th-grade level, the tolerable limit for a 9th-grade reader.
We must reach people at their level to be effective. Talking over their heads won't work. I have a tested and quantified 200 wpm at over 90% comprehension level. acceptable High School levels are 200-225 wpm at only 75% comprehension. If average people could read the well and understand 400 year old British speak, the King James would be sufficient. Other studies show the to 40 High School texts are written at about a 5th grade level. How can we reach them if we don't translate it to them in language they under stand? Unless Salvation is just for educated snobs. Get real!
The results show the average adult reads at the 9th-grade level. This accounts for the fact that the popular blockbuster novels are written at the 7th grade level. People like to read recreationally two grades below their actual reading skill. The average newspaper is written at the 11th-grade level, the tolerable limit for a 9th-grade reader.
We must reach people at their level to be effective. Talking over their heads won't work. I have a tested and quantified 200 wpm at over 90% comprehension level. acceptable High School levels are 200-225 wpm at only 75% comprehension. If average people could read the well and understand 400 year old British speak, the King James would be sufficient. Other studies show the to 40 High School texts are written at about a 5th grade level. How can we reach them if we don't translate it to them in language they under stand? Unless Salvation is just for educated snobs. Get real!
Again, who cares if we speak a different, watered down slang English today. Study to shew thyself approved unto God...
Btw, with some of the updated words we lose truth, sound doctrine. An easy example is the word you. You is not singular in proper English but plural. In today’s English that distinction is not made.
Any other circular reasoning you'd like to employ, while you're at it?
The Law does not forbid killing; it does forbid murder. "Thou shalt not kill," whatever it meant in 1611, is not correct 21st century English for the commandment.
By the way, that has absolutely nothing to do with your milktoast argument about the language being watered down. It is more precise, not less.