"You will be held responsible for the murder of all godly people . . ."

[2ndTimothyGroup]

“This "deep sleep" was an additional layer to what they, along with nearly all other humans are born with . . . a Sinful Nature”

the nature of good and evil that we inherited from Adam and Eve the first sinners ? No that’s not the soirit sleep God put upon israel it’s the reason he put that upon them thise uncircumcised hearts of rebellion and idolatry . Because of the sins they committed they were never unable they were unwilling

“You weren’t willing to come to God “ it was never beyond then it was a corruption of thier will by the forbidden knowledge in the beginning

“For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.

It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.


I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:11-19‬ ‭

it wasn’t that they weren’t able or God prevented then it was that they freely rejected him of a corrupted Will a sinful and corrupt nature inherited from mankind’s natural mother and father.

seven Adam and Eve rejected his word chose the serpents word and the curse that came with it. God never made Adam inherantly evil , he never willed that Adam eat the fruit or made Adam eat the fruit he warned him not to do it and placed him in Eden with free Will and blessing and dominion and a purpose to work the garden

adam instead followed eves word who followed the serpents word that was contrary to what God said to them “ you will surely die if you eat the fruit “

…” you will not surely die if you eat the fruit God knows it will make you as gods knowing good and evil “

it was always a choice to believe God and live and have a relationship with him with his presence with us or follow the contrary word we hear telling us the opposite and claiming it’s truth

Adam and Eve weren’t unable they rejected what thier Creator and Lord and the one who blessed and chose them and gave them dominion upon earth said to them

and accepted what the subtle and crafty serpent said in order to kill and curse them by Gods word. And cause of them to eat of the knowledge of good and evil mixed together that would certainly cause thier deaths

Ehat God had told then would have kept them safe and alive and blessed and with him . What Satan told them got them cursed and exiled from Eden and his presence they had two forms of o formation opposed and they chose the wrong one

Its always been God telling man the truth to warn us of evil since then since the first born man he tells us what is the right way to go and we do the opposite

“And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a instead of solving the issue through repentance and doing what is right like God told him now cains filled with both good and evil and again he chooses the evil influence and kills his brother to solve the favoritism he has wrongly perceived. And again cain after doing this is exiled from Gods people not because God forced him to reject what he told him but because cain loved the evil in him rather than the good , the flesh rather than the spirit so he chose being corrupt

seven generations into mankind ends the thought that man is inheriantly evil and can’t obey because Enoch walks with God and never dies but instead is translated into Gods eternal kingdom as we find out in Hebrews 11 having obtained a good report from God while he lived being saved by faith having walked with God as Christian’s are called to do

also men like Noah and Abraham who obeyed God men like Daniel and job who obeyed God and no fault eas found even later they are known as three righteous men who could deliver thier own souls

Noah Daniel and job that is mankknd is not incapable of repentance and obedience to God we never have been it was satans lie that we swallowed “ your all not able To obey God and live your just sinners you can’t change “

The gospel annhialates that theory showing us that what makes slaves of men , is the lies of our enemy on the world that oppose his truth it’s all about our belief what we hear and believe becomes our path we need Jesus to be our path

what your saying has merit don’t get me wrong but the gospel changes everything for believers by changing thier perceptions of themselves the world and of God thier Heavenly Father and his Will for them and his provisions for them to be made free in truth

Wow! That's a lot for me to go over. I'll fully read and respond to one or two points before I call it a night. But boy, I sure wish we lived close enough to actually study the Bible together. I have always appreciated your open-mind and gentile way of communicating.

Thanks in advance for all you wrote! haha

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

One of the Disciples made my point for me, which is that the Lord did not awaken the eyes of the Jews so that they could even have a chance to respond to the Lord. If a person isn't drawn to the Lord, and if their hearts have not been prepared to respond to the voice of Christ when He calls, then how can they respond when He calls?

John 14:22 NLT - "Judas (not Judas Iscariot, but the other disciple with that name) said to him, "Lord, why are you going to reveal yourself only to us and not to the world at large?"

This above Scripture sets the stage for the hidden, Mysterious Plan of God to be recognized and understood. If we read the entire Bible in a timeline chronological order, looking to answer this Disciples question . . . and I mean word for word, phrase by phrase, sentence by sentence, chapter by chapter . . . we would discover a completely new scope and vision of the Bible. At least, that is my personal testimony. After reading the Bible like everyone else for the first fifty years of my life, I can honestly say that I didn't have a clue as to what the Scriptures were saying. And believe me, I've spent thousands of dollars on audio series, Bible dictionaries, software (over $500 for the Logos Bible Software), commentaries, TSK, books on hermaneutics, sermons, and on and on. But because I did not read the Bible in a timeline chronological order, all of my previous efforts only put concepts into my head, but could not make proper sense of them. Sure, I thought I was an expert (self-proclaimed) on certain doctrines, such as Eternal Security, and while I may have been accurate in some areas, I really shouldn't have been speaking at all. But once I began to understand the actual Story of God, and when I set aside all beliefs I previously held . . . and THEN began to read the Bible . . . it is a whole new book. Finally, I understand the Purpose of Christ, the Work of Christ, and the Effect of Christ. And all of this points to John 14:22 above.

John 9:39-41 NLT - "Then Jesus told him, "I entered this world to render judgment--to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind." Some Pharisees who were standing nearby heard him and asked, "Are you saying we're blind?" "If you were blind, you wouldn't be guilty," Jesus replied. "But you remain guilty because you claim you can see."

Above, we can identify the Purpose of Christ. We can also identify the Spiritual Work of Christ (though it is not specific in each term), and we also see the Effect of Christ, which is to be set Spiritually free from Spiritual blindness. In other words, set free from the ownership of Satan.

2 Timothy 2:25-26 NLT - "Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people's hearts, and they will learn the truth. Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil's trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants."

These 2nd Timothy passage above point directly to the John 14:22 passage, also above.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Wow! That's a lot for me to go over. I'll fully read and respond to one or two points before I call it a night. But boy, I sure wish we lived close enough to actually study the Bible together. I have always appreciated your open-mind and gentile way of communicating.

Thanks in advance for all you wrote! haha

yeah I really don’t think what your saying and what I was trying to say are opposed but more weave together and sort of support the other in a way

 

[Pilgrimshope]

One of the Disciples made my point for me, which is that the Lord did not awaken the eyes of the Jews so that they could even have a chance to respond to the Lord. If a person isn't drawn to the Lord, and if their hearts have not been prepared to respond to the voice of Christ when He calls, then how can they respond when He calls?

John 14:22 NLT - "Judas (not Judas Iscariot, but the other disciple with that name) said to him, "Lord, why are you going to reveal yourself only to us and not to the world at large?"

This above Scripture sets the stage for the hidden, Mysterious Plan of God to be recognized and understood. If we read the entire Bible in a timeline chronological order, looking to answer this Disciples question . . . and I mean word for word, phrase by phrase, sentence by sentence, chapter by chapter . . . we would discover a completely new scope and vision of the Bible. At least, that is my personal testimony. After reading the Bible like everyone else for the first fifty years of my life, I can honestly say that I didn't have a clue as to what the Scriptures were saying. And believe me, I've spent thousands of dollars on audio series, Bible dictionaries, software (over $500 for the Logos Bible Software), commentaries, TSK, books on hermaneutics, sermons, and on and on. But because I did not read the Bible in a timeline chronological order, all of my previous efforts only put concepts into my head, but could not make proper sense of them. Sure, I thought I was an expert (self-proclaimed) on certain doctrines, such as Eternal Security, and while I may have been accurate in some areas, I really shouldn't have been speaking at all. But once I began to understand the actual Story of God, and when I set aside all beliefs I previously held . . . and THEN began to read the Bible . . . it is a whole new book. Finally, I understand the Purpose of Christ, the Work of Christ, and the Effect of Christ. And all of this points to John 14:22 above.

John 9:39-41 NLT - "Then Jesus told him, "I entered this world to render judgment--to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind." Some Pharisees who were standing nearby heard him and asked, "Are you saying we're blind?" "If you were blind, you wouldn't be guilty," Jesus replied. "But you remain guilty because you claim you can see."

Above, we can identify the Purpose of Christ. We can also identify the Spiritual Work of Christ (though it is not specific in each term), and we also see the Effect of Christ, which is to be set Spiritually free from Spiritual blindness. In other words, set free from the ownership of Satan.

2 Timothy 2:25-26 NLT - "Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people's hearts, and they will learn the truth. Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil's trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants."

These 2nd Timothy passage above point directly to the John 14:22 passage, also above.

His purpose

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭

Because if sinners don’t repent

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:5‬ ‭

“Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:45-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s called everyone to the same Hope and same calling

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This covers everyone those who will believe and respond and those who won’t.

 

[Nehemiah6]

absolutely, it has ALWAYS been wrong for the church to be anti-Jew ... a sin in fact.

Paul warned all Gentile Christians to not be "high-minded" because the Jews were not getting saved while they were. He also told the Gentiles that we were branches from "the wild olive tree" grafted on to the "good olive tree" of believing Israel. That is because the Gospel would be preached in this order -- Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and then the uttermost parts of the world. Pentecost was totally for the Jews from the entire Roman empire.

This is because the New Covenant was given primarily to Israel, and then to the Gentile world, since Christ was "a Light to lighten the Gentiles". Replacement Theology simply ignores God's plan for redeemed and restored Israel after the Second Coming of Christ. Even though there are scores of passages in the OT to make this very clear. But God also has an eternal and glorious plan for the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body).

 

[Blain]

All opinions welcome . . . rude people, not so much.

I'm not one for turning to commentaries, but would rather turn to people whom I can ask questions and clarify. Therefore, in the Scripture below, why will Jesus hold the current body of Jewish rulers and authorities responsible for the deaths of previous Prophets and Holy men? (And women - throwing that in.) I cannot find a way to make this fit with the primary contexts of the Bible . . . help!

Matthew 23:34-36 NLT - "Therefore, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers of religious law. But you will kill some by crucifixion, and you will flog others with whips in your synagogues, chasing them from city to city. As a result, you will be held responsible for the murder of all godly people of all time--from the murder of righteous Abel to the murder of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you killed in the Temple between the sanctuary and the altar. I tell you the truth, this judgment will fall on this very generation."

Who is righteos? who is good? don't forget they are the apple of his eye and even spoke a curse on those who are against them they are lost now yes but we Christians are bo better ;ook at the word how it mocks us how it called us fakee andhow even many in the body complain about the state of the body thee meega pastors the bible thumpers the world sees us as liars and hypocrites and for good reason

But be careful how you speeak of his chosen peeople you clealty seee yourself better than them but theey are the prodigal son and will rise to show his true glory dpn't forget you are under his feet you are no better than than his cherished people you are in the same fold as them now and if you speak bad of them you speak bad about yourself because you are not abovee or below them you are in the same fold the samee kingdom and maybe I am mistaken but the kingdom doesn';t underline itself it strenghtens the kingdom it gives life and healing it helps the broken and wekeeened all you have said is not this

Whp are you to speak so ill of them when you yourself fon't know him? and yes I am beeing jarsh but it has to be said you don't know him

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Who is righteos? who is good? don't forget they are the apple of his eye and even spoke a curse on those who are against them they are lost now yes but we Christians are bo better ;ook at the word how it mocks us how it called us fakee andhow even many in the body complain about the state of the body thee meega pastors the bible thumpers the world sees us as liars and hypocrites and for good reason

But be careful how you speeak of his chosen peeople you clealty seee yourself better than them but theey are the prodigal son and will rise to show his true glory dpn't forget you are under his feet you are no better than than his cherished people you are in the same fold as them now and if you speak bad of them you speak bad about yourself because you are not abovee or below them you are in the same fold the samee kingdom and maybe I am mistaken but the kingdom doesn';t underline itself it strenghtens the kingdom it gives life and healing it helps the broken and wekeeened all you have said is not this

Whp are you to speak so ill of them when you yourself fon't know him? and yes I am beeing jarsh but it has to be said you don't know him

This is an interesting take on me. Day 307 of the timeline, chronological reading plan, is coming up. It is scheduled to be emailed to the group on the 22nd. Here is a snapshot of what is in that article:

"The sheer Power of God to have such control over His creation, will stagger not only the Blessed and deeply Loved Jews, but the rest of the Gentile world. When the entire Jewish Nation, from all over the world, is given the Spiritual eyes and ears to recognize and hear Christ, the entire world will know it, for the Blessed Jews will not be able to remain silent, for they will have been released from true Spiritual captivity. The Blessed Jews as a Nation will see and understand all that has occurred, and will be the most remarkable people to know when this tremendous Spiritual event takes place. Though they have been Spiritually asleep, their core knowledge of what it is to be a Jew, will give them immense understanding, knowledge, and wisdom regarding the Scriptures, including the New Testament. They will likely be able to expound on the Bible in ways we have yet to consider.
§ Zechariah 8:23 . . . N.L.T. – “This is what the LORD of Heaven's Armies says: In those days ten men from different nations and languages of the world will clutch at the sleeve of one Jew. And they will say, 'Please let us walk with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”

I love all people who belong to God, the same people that Jesus prayed for.

Is it possible, Blaine, that you don't know me?

 

[Blain]

This is an interesting take on me. Day 307 of the timeline, chronological reading plan, is coming up. It is scheduled to be emailed to the group on the 22nd. Here is a snapshot of what is in that article:

"The sheer Power of God to have such control over His creation, will stagger not only the Blessed and deeply Loved Jews, but the rest of the Gentile world. When the entire Jewish Nation, from all over the world, is given the Spiritual eyes and ears to recognize and hear Christ, the entire world will know it, for the Blessed Jews will not be able to remain silent, for they will have been released from true Spiritual captivity. The Blessed Jews as a Nation will see and understand all that has occurred, and will be the most remarkable people to know when this tremendous Spiritual event takes place. Though they have been Spiritually asleep, their core knowledge of what it is to be a Jew, will give them immense understanding, knowledge, and wisdom regarding the Scriptures, including the New Testament. They will likely be able to expound on the Bible in ways we have yet to consider.
§ Zechariah 8:23 . . . N.L.T. – “This is what the LORD of Heaven's Armies says: In those days ten men from different nations and languages of the world will clutch at the sleeve of one Jew. And they will say, 'Please let us walk with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”

I love all people who belong to God, the same people that Jesus prayed for.

Is it possible, Blaine, that you don't know me?

follow it and believe iut I want to say a vision I had which I am sure many have heard many times but this vision was something beautiful powerful glorious I saw a barren land no life dried up twigs I saw a city of people going by their daily lives unaware they were covered in garbage there grom and disgusting filt in and on everything but they were all unaware rats scurried frelly the air itself was poisoned b7t they all sudden;y heard a faint song ignoring it at first but it grew more intense and louder slowly but surely until it became as loud as trumpet a blast of sound that everyone instinctly looked towards it I saw an army of people dancing and singing praise to God as the moved walked a gilden shining city that alsmost seemed like glistineing crtystal or glass was being carried behind them every step they topok life flourished

Every step streams of water came forth deep healthy grass flowers bloomed trees srput up evwn the creatures of the earth took refuge in the
the abundant fields trees the rivers that sprung forth all the while these people kept singin in a life and absolulte joy it was so intense the people of the city of sin couldn;t helot but turn from what they were doing the life and holden light these people of the city gace spread like an infection

I think this is the genberation of cherished people it starts with them then spreads to the rest of us don't forget when it comers to where we are in bible prophecy look to Israel

 

[Shilohsfoal]

G

This is an interesting take on me. Day 307 of the timeline, chronological reading plan, is coming up. It is scheduled to be emailed to the group on the 22nd. Here is a snapshot of what is in that article:

"The sheer Power of God to have such control over His creation, will stagger not only the Blessed and deeply Loved Jews, but the rest of the Gentile world. When the entire Jewish Nation, from all over the world, is given the Spiritual eyes and ears to recognize and hear Christ, the entire world will know it, for the Blessed Jews will not be able to remain silent, for they will have been released from true Spiritual captivity. The Blessed Jews as a Nation will see and understand all that has occurred, and will be the most remarkable people to know when this tremendous Spiritual event takes place. Though they have been Spiritually asleep, their core knowledge of what it is to be a Jew, will give them immense understanding, knowledge, and wisdom regarding the Scriptures, including the New Testament. They will likely be able to expound on the Bible in ways we have yet to consider.
§ Zechariah 8:23 . . . N.L.T. – “This is what the LORD of Heaven's Armies says: In those days ten men from different nations and languages of the world will clutch at the sleeve of one Jew. And they will say, 'Please let us walk with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”

I love all people who belong to God, the same people that Jesus prayed for.

Is it possible, Blaine, that you don't know me?

I'm pretty sure the blessed jews get beaten in the synagogues and persecuted throughout all the cities of Israel by the cursed Jews before Christ comes .


That's what happens when they follow the Lamb.Well,at least Jesus to told them how they will be hated because of his
Name.


23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

 

[oyster67]

Therefore, in the Scripture below, why will Jesus hold the current body of Jewish rulers and authorities responsible for the deaths of previous Prophets and Holy men? (And women - throwing that in.)

Their hearts were the same as those of their father's. This would soon be verified when they shouted, "crucify Him!"

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Their hearts were the same as those of their father's. This would soon be verified when they shouted, "crucify Him!"

Hello Oyster67. Pleasant greetings to you.

We might be able to go even a few years back . . . about three to be exact.

Luke 7:29-30 CSB - "(And when all the people, including the tax collectors, heard this, they acknowledged God's way of righteousness, because they had been baptized with John's baptism. But since the Pharisees and experts in the law had not been baptized by him, they rejected the plan of God for themselves.)"

John the B was preparing hearts, but the rulers of the day rejected his Baptism, thus they couldn't believe (for they remained in their blindness according to Plan).

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

also men like Noah and Abraham who obeyed God men like Daniel and job who obeyed God and no fault eas found even later they are known as three righteous men who could deliver thier own souls

Say what???? LOL Who taught you that these people saved their own souls? I shouldn't laugh, but that struck me giggly.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

“This "deep sleep" was an additional layer to what they, along with nearly all other humans are born with . . . a Sinful Nature”

the nature of good and evil that we inherited from Adam and Eve the first sinners ? No that’s not the soirit sleep God put upon israel it’s the reason he put that upon them thise uncircumcised hearts of rebellion and idolatry . Because of the sins they committed they were never unable they were unwilling


what your saying has merit don’t get me wrong but the gospel changes everything for believers by changing thier perceptions of themselves the world and of God thier Heavenly Father and his Will for them and his provisions for them to be made free in truth

Wow. Well, as always you have much to say! And that is a good thing. I must say, I study and write allll day, and my fingers are unusually sore. So, I cannot duly respond, so forgive me.

I guess, overall, I'm a bit confused. I've read the Bible in a timeline, chronological order for about 6 years now; that's the only way I read the Bible. Imagine if you wrote a book, chapters and all. It was a book of your life, beginning with the day of your birth through to where you are today. They scope of your life is easy to follow. We watch you learn, grow, become a young man, driving a car, etc . . . you get the picture. How would you feel if you gave your book to me to read and I enthusiastically said, "Yeah! Of course!" I see you a month later and you ask me if I read the book, and I said, "I sure did. It was fantastic! But I didn't start at the beginning. I just kind of skipped around from chapter to chapter. I think the last chapter I finally read was 11, I don't know . . . something like that."

How would you feel? First thing you'd do is probably call the person an idiot in your mind. Like, who would do that? Yet, that's what we do with the Bible. It boggles me that Churches don't stuff it into our brains that we need to know the Story of God. Not just the New Testament . . . but the entire Bible as one Holy, remarkable, stunning and Miraculous Book.

All that said, I know the Story of God, and am learning more and more each time God allows me to read through it again, but I really don't understand what you're getting at. Don't get me wrong, I can clearly see that you believe in total free will. I get that, as I used to believe that as well. But now that I know the Story of God in a timeline, chronological order (like your ficticious book), the Power and control of God is clearly the primary theme of the entire Bible. Above all things, it is abundantly clear that God wants us to recognize His Power. The "church" doesn't put any emphasis on this Power, though. So, I realize that this kind of talk is foreign, but it shouldn't be. The next obvious theme of the Bible is that humanity has a huge problem . . . and it leads to Spiritual death. Hence, we need a Redeemer. Jesus has been Redeeming from the beginning, we know this as Abel was the first true Prophet of God. His heart was Purified. Genesis 17 is in the top three most important chapters of the entire Bible. According to the hidden, Mysterious Plan of God that Paul wrote about, Spiritual Circumcision is established there in the Life of Abraham and Sarah.

Jesus has been separating people from corruption from the beginning, those who He would need to lead a Vine of people through a world filled with either abominations, or the Gentiles who had no Law. But this Vine would be led through the world, and through time, and all according to an Eternal Plan written upon a Heavenly Scroll. The Lord used people and Nations to demonstrate His sheer Power, Pharaoh is the most well known example. But God also used Babylonian kings as His "tool" to complete His Work upon Israel, to thin them out.

Nearly every story within the Bible contains some form of Power that no one else can do. But again, preachers and teachers of this day are no better than those of 2000 years ago. They haven't a clue. We need to be focusing in on the Power of God, for if we did, we would walk away with an entirely different view of not only God, but our doctrine would change. I guarantee it.

So, this is how I understand the Bible and this is how I speak about the Bible. I speak about in terms of deeper contexts, searching for those patterns of how the physical world represents the Spiritual world. It is here that we find the deeper layers of truth that the Lord wants us to know. Until we get to that layer, we are merely at ground level, the level where memorization is possible. But anyone can do that, for that is what acting is all about. But do we understand the hidden, Mysterious Plan of God? That is what we need to be seeking. That is where the true Gospel of Jesus Christ is to be found. But the world will not recognize it; for they will be naturally repelled. And this is the Power of God, that He would cause us to find the Holy Word Circumcision to be detestable to those who do not belong to Him.

I am confident that I've lost you as it pertains to what you've written, but I assure you that it is at the absolute heart of the matter. There is so much to talk about and so much more that could be said.

All respect,

2TG

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Wow. Well, as always you have much to say! And that is a good thing. I must say, I study and write allll day, and my fingers are unusually sore. So, I cannot duly respond, so forgive me.

I guess, overall, I'm a bit confused. I've read the Bible in a timeline, chronological order for about 6 years now; that's the only way I read the Bible. Imagine if you wrote a book, chapters and all. It was a book of your life, beginning with the day of your birth through to where you are today. They scope of your life is easy to follow. We watch you learn, grow, become a young man, driving a car, etc . . . you get the picture. How would you feel if you gave your book to me to read and I enthusiastically said, "Yeah! Of course!" I see you a month later and you ask me if I read the book, and I said, "I sure did. It was fantastic! But I didn't start at the beginning. I just kind of skipped around from chapter to chapter. I think the last chapter I finally read was 11, I don't know . . . something like that."

How would you feel? First thing you'd do is probably call the person an idiot in your mind. Like, who would do that? Yet, that's what we do with the Bible. It boggles me that Churches don't stuff it into our brains that we need to know the Story of God. Not just the New Testament . . . but the entire Bible as one Holy, remarkable, stunning and Miraculous Book.

All that said, I know the Story of God, and am learning more and more each time God allows me to read through it again, but I really don't understand what you're getting at. Don't get me wrong, I can clearly see that you believe in total free will. I get that, as I used to believe that as well. But now that I know the Story of God in a timeline, chronological order (like your ficticious book), the Power and control of God is clearly the primary theme of the entire Bible. Above all things, it is abundantly clear that God wants us to recognize His Power. The "church" doesn't put any emphasis on this Power, though. So, I realize that this kind of talk is foreign, but it shouldn't be. The next obvious theme of the Bible is that humanity has a huge problem . . . and it leads to Spiritual death. Hence, we need a Redeemer. Jesus has been Redeeming from the beginning, we know this as Abel was the first true Prophet of God. His heart was Purified. Genesis 17 is in the top three most important chapters of the entire Bible. According to the hidden, Mysterious Plan of God that Paul wrote about, Spiritual Circumcision is established there in the Life of Abraham and Sarah.

Jesus has been separating people from corruption from the beginning, those who He would need to lead a Vine of people through a world filled with either abominations, or the Gentiles who had no Law. But this Vine would be led through the world, and through time, and all according to an Eternal Plan written upon a Heavenly Scroll. The Lord used people and Nations to demonstrate His sheer Power, Pharaoh is the most well known example. But God also used Babylonian kings as His "tool" to complete His Work upon Israel, to thin them out.

Nearly every story within the Bible contains some form of Power that no one else can do. But again, preachers and teachers of this day are no better than those of 2000 years ago. They haven't a clue. We need to be focusing in on the Power of God, for if we did, we would walk away with an entirely different view of not only God, but our doctrine would change. I guarantee it.

So, this is how I understand the Bible and this is how I speak about the Bible. I speak about in terms of deeper contexts, searching for those patterns of how the physical world represents the Spiritual world. It is here that we find the deeper layers of truth that the Lord wants us to know. Until we get to that layer, we are merely at ground level, the level where memorization is possible. But anyone can do that, for that is what acting is all about. But do we understand the hidden, Mysterious Plan of God? That is what we need to be seeking. That is where the true Gospel of Jesus Christ is to be found. But the world will not recognize it; for they will be naturally repelled. And this is the Power of God, that He would cause us to find the Holy Word Circumcision to be detestable to those who do not belong to Him.

I am confident that I've lost you as it pertains to what you've written, but I assure you that it is at the absolute heart of the matter. There is so much to talk about and so much more that could be said.

All respect,

2TG

Yeah of course I believe in free Will Gods children are all free

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

Exactly. From what are people set free? My goodness, that's what the entire Bible is about: Being set free from the captivity and control of the Devil. Again, that is the context of the entire Bible. Is it not?

A quick search with the words set, free, and from revealed these Scriptures:

Ezekiel 13:20 NLT - 20 "This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against all your magic charms, which you use to ensnare my people like birds. I will tear them from your arms, setting my people free like birds set free from a cage."

Romans 6:7 NLT - 7 "For when we died with Christ we were set free from the power of sin."

Colossians 2:20 NLT - 20 You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the spiritual powers of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of the world, such as . . ."

It sounds to me that until a person turns to Christ, they are Affected by the Power of the Devil. Again, this is the context of the entire Bible—the Entire Bible. But if people don't read the entire Bible and refuse to understand it's core Purpose, it will be impossible for them to come to the conclusion that I have come to. If a person isn't going to read the Bible as I read the Bible, then there is no room to argue or oppose.

 

[vassal]

All opinions welcome . . . rude people, not so much.

I'm not one for turning to commentaries, but would rather turn to people whom I can ask questions and clarify. Therefore, in the Scripture below, why will Jesus hold the current body of Jewish rulers and authorities responsible for the deaths of previous Prophets and Holy men? (And women - throwing that in.) I cannot find a way to make this fit with the primary contexts of the Bible . . . help!

Matthew 23:34-36 NLT - "Therefore, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers of religious law. But you will kill some by crucifixion, and you will flog others with whips in your synagogues, chasing them from city to city. As a result, you will be held responsible for the murder of all godly people of all time--from the murder of righteous Abel to the murder of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you killed in the Temple between the sanctuary and the altar. I tell you the truth, this judgment will fall on this very generation."

Lets not forget Jesus was also a prophet, he was the son of GOD, one with GOD, that generation Killed the son of GOD!
The judgment came to that generation, the city and temple was destroyed. GOD is Just!

Evil men cannot stand the light and the word of GOD, they live in darkness, it is why they killed the prophets because they know they are guilty before GOD.

Peace

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Is it somehow possible that when the Prophets were killed, they were killing Jesus? Is this a possible answer to the OP?

Link the below passages . . . this is a most interesting idea.

Matthew 27:24-25 NLT - 24 Pilate saw that he wasn't getting anywhere and that a riot was developing. So he sent for a bowl of water and washed his hands before the crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this man's blood. The responsibility is yours!" 25 And all the people yelled back, "We will take responsibility for his death--we and our children!"

What I am proposing is that this is how it could be true that THIS generation would be responsible for the deaths of all previous Prophets. After all, the Spirit was with each of them, and in many cases (from the OT), within them.

 

[Nehemiah6]

What I am proposing is that this is how it could be true that THIS generation would be responsible for the deaths of all previous Prophets

Which is the "THIS generation" you are referring to? That generation was present at the time of Christ on earth. God held the unbelieving Jews accountable for the death of Christ (even though this was a part of His plan for salvation).

Notice what Peter and Stephen said: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (Acts 2:23)... Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: (Acts 7:51,52)

That is it. That was the generation that paid for their rejection of Christ. The Romans brought God's judgment on them, the temple was destroyed, and the Jews were banished from Judea. However, God is not finished with Israel, so He also allowed the establishment of the secular nation-state of Israel in 1948, and helped Israel survive its enemies many times. And this is unbelieving Israel.

 

[Evmur]

Which is the "THIS generation" you are referring to? That generation was present at the time of Christ on earth. God held the unbelieving Jews accountable for the death of Christ (even though this was a part of His plan for salvation).

Notice what Peter and Stephen said: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (Acts 2:23)... Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: (Acts 7:51,52)

That is it. That was the generation that paid for their rejection of Christ. The Romans brought God's judgment on them, the temple was destroyed, and the Jews were banished from Judea. However, God is not finished with Israel, so He also allowed the establishment of the secular nation-state of Israel in 1948, and helped Israel survive its enemies many times. And this is unbelieving Israel.

... they meant it for evil but God meant it for good.

Jesus pardoned them at the cross.

 

[Evmur]

“This "deep sleep" was an additional layer to what they, along with nearly all other humans are born with . . . a Sinful Nature”

the nature of good and evil that we inherited from Adam and Eve the first sinners ? No that’s not the soirit sleep God put upon israel it’s the reason he put that upon them thise uncircumcised hearts of rebellion and idolatry . Because of the sins they committed they were never unable they were unwilling

“You weren’t willing to come to God “ it was never beyond then it was a corruption of thier will by the forbidden knowledge in the beginning

“For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.

It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.


I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:11-19‬ ‭

it wasn’t that they weren’t able or God prevented then it was that they freely rejected him of a corrupted Will a sinful and corrupt nature inherited from mankind’s natural mother and father.

seven Adam and Eve rejected his word chose the serpents word and the curse that came with it. God never made Adam inherantly evil , he never willed that Adam eat the fruit or made Adam eat the fruit he warned him not to do it and placed him in Eden with free Will and blessing and dominion and a purpose to work the garden

adam instead followed eves word who followed the serpents word that was contrary to what God said to them “ you will surely die if you eat the fruit “

…” you will not surely die if you eat the fruit God knows it will make you as gods knowing good and evil “

it was always a choice to believe God and live and have a relationship with him with his presence with us or follow the contrary word we hear telling us the opposite and claiming it’s truth

Adam and Eve weren’t unable they rejected what thier Creator and Lord and the one who blessed and chose them and gave them dominion upon earth said to them

and accepted what the subtle and crafty serpent said in order to kill and curse them by Gods word. And cause of them to eat of the knowledge of good and evil mixed together that would certainly cause thier deaths

Ehat God had told then would have kept them safe and alive and blessed and with him . What Satan told them got them cursed and exiled from Eden and his presence they had two forms of o formation opposed and they chose the wrong one

Its always been God telling man the truth to warn us of evil since then since the first born man he tells us what is the right way to go and we do the opposite

“And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a instead of solving the issue through repentance and doing what is right like God told him now cains filled with both good and evil and again he chooses the evil influence and kills his brother to solve the favoritism he has wrongly perceived. And again cain after doing this is exiled from Gods people not because God forced him to reject what he told him but because cain loved the evil in him rather than the good , the flesh rather than the spirit so he chose being corrupt

seven generations into mankind ends the thought that man is inheriantly evil and can’t obey because Enoch walks with God and never dies but instead is translated into Gods eternal kingdom as we find out in Hebrews 11 having obtained a good report from God while he lived being saved by faith having walked with God as Christian’s are called to do

also men like Noah and Abraham who obeyed God men like Daniel and job who obeyed God and no fault eas found even later they are known as three righteous men who could deliver thier own souls

Noah Daniel and job that is mankknd is not incapable of repentance and obedience to God we never have been it was satans lie that we swallowed “ your all not able To obey God and live your just sinners you can’t change “

The gospel annhialates that theory showing us that what makes slaves of men , is the lies of our enemy on the world that oppose his truth it’s all about our belief what we hear and believe becomes our path we need Jesus to be our path

what your saying has merit don’t get me wrong but the gospel changes everything for believers by changing thier perceptions of themselves the world and of God thier Heavenly Father and his Will for them and his provisions for them to be made free in truth

By GRACE are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves lest any flesh boast.

I was saved through a "faith" ministry, an American faith ministry, God bless America.

But they do always put faith before grace ... they put all the onus and emphasis upon us, what we must do or can do.

That's why faith preachers are often grumpy.

You cain't do ANYTHING, zippo, stitch. you can't obey God if'n He is not instructing you, you can't believe or obey His word until He imparts it to you. PERSONALLY He must impart it.

You can read His word in the bible, you can hear it from a testimony or a preacher ... it won't save you, there is nothing you can do to make it work, make it come to pass.

Paul must have heard St Stephen speak his words of wisdom, full of the Holy Ghost so that nobody could gainsay him. Paul very likely witnessed the miracles God did through Stephen's hands. But the only effect was to make him gnash upon Stephen with his teeth.

Make him want to kill all the Christians, men and women, drag them off to prison.

Something had to happen to Saul of Tarsus, being knocked off his horse and struck blind might not seem to be a very gracious work. It was the work of grace, it was a work done upon Saul to prepare him to receive the word PERSONALLY , that's the grace, the work of grace by which we are enabled to receive the word of faith which believing will save us.

What GOD does is what is important, when He decides to save someone, that someone will be saved. No question.

It is all by grace through faith which also is a gift. It's God from top to bottom.