Works of the Law

[Nehemiah6]

Sorry for my ignorance but who is this robertson guy?

"Recognized as the premier New Testament scholar of his generation, Robertson published 45 books, including the six-volume “Word Pictures in the New Testament” and 1,454-page “A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research,” which is still consulted by leading Greek scholars a century after it first appeared in print."
https://www.baptistpress.com/resource-library/news/a-t-robertson-his-monumental-achievement/

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

"Recognized as the premier New Testament scholar of his generation, Robertson published 45 books, including the six-volume “Word Pictures in the New Testament” and 1,454-page “A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research,” which is still consulted by leading Greek scholars a century after it first appeared in print."
https://www.baptistpress.com/resource-library/news/a-t-robertson-his-monumental-achievement/

Many thanks for the reference, i will read about a t Robertson.
Blessings.

 

[Cameron143]

Hi cameron I dont believe works do save neither do I believe in sinless perfection except for Christ himself who was sinless , unless i am wrong I dont think the others of this thread do so. Some make a point based on scripture that works are the result of faith and simply to do the best one can to help out our fellow man based on Christ command to love one another. As for the law ( the 10 commandments) Jesus was clear about following the commandments not the way the pharisee did but with using our hearts and Love GOD and our fellow man, basically to do to others what we would like for others to do to us as simple as that. And Jesus said it perfectly;

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

It is not an easy path in this world but we must try and do our very best,

Blessings.

I'm for striving against sin. But our striving still only alters our outward behavior. What we need is a change in our hearts. We are changed from glory to glory when we are in the presence of God...2 Corinthians 3:18.
Thus, our efforts are better spent getting into God's presence. This is why we practice spiritual disciplines. The main benefit of the disciplines, however, are not the disciplines themselves. Rather, they put us in the place God says He will meet with us.
We enter into our closet to pray. Why? Because our Father is in secret and we meet Him there.
We meet for worship and fellowship. Why?
Because Jesus has promised to be where 2 or more are gathered in His name.
We make a practice of praising God. Why? Because God inhabits the praises of His people.
We can try in our own strength and clean up some of the outside. Or we can enter God's presence and be transformed from the inside out. The second is much more preferable.

 

[Needevidence]

Arguably we are all habitual sinners, unless someone believes that they have never sinned again, even if its simple as back biting.

However, to have sin there must be a law that you have gone against, if there is no law then you cannot sin and then there would be no need for repentance.

“For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.” Matthew 5:20

[you have to be righteous (moral) but again you cannot be morale if there is no law / standard to judge. Everyone has different morals so who decides what’s moral. God says don’t commit adultery, but others say nothing wrong with it as long as both parties agree – has to be law / guidance we have to abide by]

1 Corinthians 5:11 - 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

[the above again implies there are Do’s & Donts’ – again implying there is a law / code we must follow – albeit Paul does have many other passages contrary to this and at odds with - Jesus who said - Mark 2:17 - 17On hearing this, Jesus told them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” ]


REV 3:19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

[till the end issues of ‘repent’ – you can only repent if you have done something wrong / broken a law – no law no need to repent]


Luke 15:10 - Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

[Nehemiah6]

However, to have sin there must be a law that you have gone against, if there is no law then you cannot sin and then there would be no need for repentance.

This faulty understanding of sin and the law keeps getting repeated over and over again. "If there is no law then you cannot sin" is plain nonsense. So let's see what is actually stated in the Bible: Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. (Rom 5:12-14)

So what do we learn from this passage:

1. Adam sinned when there was no written Law. He disobeyed God (along with Eve).

2. As a result all humans being sin and all are therefore subject to death.

3. Sin existed in the world regardless of whether the Law was in place.

4. Sin was not IMPUTED to sinners during that time. In other words specific sins could not be enumerated and charged against specific laws. That would be similar to having a road on which no speed limits are posted. A person could still be speeding but could not be charged with exceeding a certain speed limit.

5. But since sins were being committed, death reigned from Adam to Moses. In other words the absence of specific laws did not mean that sins were not being committed. And the proof is that death was evident throughout that time.

6. This was similar to how Adam was said to have sinned even when no written Law was in place.

 

[Goliath]

See, this is the type of talk of a Deceiver...

I said that God has a design that's in Scripture... and you compare it to man(kind)'s design, suggesting that it's God's design that I was talking about.
You really are a handful...

And I merely showed you evidence, that you misunderstand what Paul is saying. If you don't have a rebuttal, just say..."Goliath you made a good point".
Name calling says the same thing...but it's not as admirable a quality.

 

[Goliath]

Apparently, the focus on sin has hindered your understanding of a slave, or servant. Consider the contrast offered to help discern the meaning.
What is the difference between a slave and a son, in regard to obedience?

I will give you the same answer Jesus gave, as to how we will know if we are slaves. Below I have underscored his answer.
(John 8:34) Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
Do you believe everyone who sins, is a slave to sin, or do you believe we are simply hindered by our understanding?

As to your second question, I will give you the same answer one of the Lords Disciples so you will know if you are a son or slave. Again the answer is underscored.
(1 John 3:9) Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Do you believe those born of God do not commit sin, because Gods seed remains in them, Or do you believe those born of God, continue to sin ....because Gods seed remains in them?

 

[Goliath]

The law does not cause love.

Well if that is true, you need to call out Jesus, not me.

(John 14:21) Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
(John 14:15) If you love me, keep my commandments.

 

[Needevidence]

This faulty understanding of sin and the law keeps getting repeated over and over again. "If there is no law then you cannot sin" is plain nonsense. So let's see what is actually stated in the Bible: Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. (Rom 5:12-14)

So what do we learn from this passage:

1. Adam sinned when there was no written Law. He disobeyed God (along with Eve).

2. As a result all humans being sin and all are therefore subject to death.

3. Sin existed in the world regardless of whether the Law was in place.

4. Sin was not IMPUTED to sinners during that time. In other words specific sins could not be enumerated and charged against specific laws. That would be similar to having a road on which no speed limits are posted. A person could still be speeding but could not be charged with exceeding a certain speed limit.

5. But since sins were being committed, death reigned from Adam to Moses. In other words the absence of specific laws did not mean that sins were not being committed. And the proof is that death was evident throughout that time.

6. This was similar to how Adam was said to have sinned even when no written Law was in place.

Few points on what you say;
1) You can not pluck 1 passage and apply that regardless of what other passages indicate.

2) Law – is Gods command – doesn’t have to written or law governments etc… make – its what the prophets told us by the instructions of God – John 12:49-50 For I did not speak on my own initiative, but the father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore, the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me

3) Sin is what God had commanded as sin Adam sinned went against Gods command– not for people to generally make a decision that I believe this is wrong or that’s right. Sin did not just exist with out law. Law decides what is right or wrong(sin).

4) Every human is subject to death, if they sin or not - Ecclesiastes 9:2-4 - 2 Everyone will die someday. Death comes to godly and sinful people alike……..

5) We are also talking about Gods sin – not peoples opinion of what sin is.

6) The passage IMO should be taken as ‘hyperbole’ otherwise it could be considered to be contradictory to other passages – such as;

“The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.” [Ezekiel 18:20]

Deuteronomy 24:16 - 16 Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin.

Matthew 4/17, as we are told about Jesus: “From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, ‘Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Many more passages

 

[Nehemiah6]

You can not pluck 1 passage and apply that regardless of what other passages indicate.

I addressed the passage which you either misunderstood or misinterpreted.

 

[Needevidence]

I addressed the passage which you either misunderstood or misinterpreted.

I covered all the points you raised - with respect don't stand to scrutiny.

 

[Mem]

I will give you the same answer Jesus gave, as to how we will know if we are slaves. Below I have underscored his answer.
(John 8:34) Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
Do you believe everyone who sins, is a slave to sin, or do you believe we are simply hindered by our understanding?

As to your second question, I will give you the same answer one of the Lords Disciples so you will know if you are a son or slave. Again the answer is underscored.
(1 John 3:9) Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Do you believe those born of God do not commit sin, because Gods seed remains in them, Or do you believe those born of God, continue to sin ....because Gods seed remains in them?

I believe those born of God do not continue in sin, but you probably have a different idea of what that actually means.

 

[Ted01]

And I merely showed you evidence, that you misunderstand what Paul is saying. If you don't have a rebuttal, just say..."Goliath you made a good point".
Name calling says the same thing...but it's not as admirable a quality.

I guess the administrators got the last word in...

 

[mailmandan]

I guess the administrators got the last word in...

Proverbs 26:12 - you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.

 

[mailmandan]

I remind you...this is ChristianChat.
People do not come here to learn what this guy "Robertson" taught, but what Jesus taught. I'm sorry this offends you, but if the teachings of Jesus are offensive to you, maybe you shouldn't read what I teach.
I should be offended by your slandering the teachings of Jesus Christ, and his disciples. But since I know you do this out of ignorance, I am not offended. But one day God will take offense to your slander of his Son...

 

[rogerg]

Have you ever heard of Scrubbing Bubbles? You just spray them on and they work to loosen and lift bathtub grime. Their motto is...we do the work, so you don't have to...

This is what the grace of God in the Lord Jesus Christ has done for us. He has done the work so we don't have to...actually, that we couldn't do.

Your point is well made that holiness and purity is often in short supply. But it is not due to grace. It is due to easy believism. There is too much confession and too little conversion; too much profession apart from true possession.

I didn't intend to disagree Cameron143 and I'm not sure why it came up that way. I tried to undo but without success.
I'll keep trying.

 

[Cameron143]

I didn't intend to disagree Cameron143 and I'm not sure why it came up that way. I tried to undo but without success.
I'll keep trying.

No worries. I don't take things personally. But I do appreciate your kind note. Blessings brother.