Works and Salvation

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Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#181
Mar 1, 2022
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#181
Inquisitor said:
Every time Paul, Peter, and John, preached the gospel there was usually some
level of agitation.

Sometimes the agitation was brutal and against them.

When the gospel is preached it does not return void.

Not everyone responds at the same time.
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Sure. Some hearts were pricked as in Acts 2, and some were severed as in Acts 7. But hearts are internal. They are in a place that only God can reach. If something is happening at that level, it is the work of God.
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#182
Mar 17, 2022
2,664
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#182
Cameron143 said:
I know. But something manifest to all is not inward, but outward. Seals themselves are placed on the outside, and authenticate what is inside. But they are never themselves inside. The same mark may be placed inside before sealing, but it isn't a seal by virtue of it being internal.
Thus, what is inside comes first, or there is nothing to seal.
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The gospel of Jesus Christ and the gift of the Holy Spirit was unknown to
the Gentiles.

Romans 11:11
I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? Far from it! But by their wrongdoing
salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.

The Gentiles were not chosen before Israel was grafted out.

The Gentiles did not even know the God of the Old Testament.

The Gentiles did not have the Holy Spirit until they heard the gospel
and believed.

You have the horse before the cart.

Stop shooting yourself in the foot, Cameron.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#183
Mar 1, 2022
17,772
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#183
Inquisitor said:
The gospel of Jesus Christ and the gift of the Holy Spirit was unknown to
the Gentiles.

Romans 11:11
I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? Far from it! But by their wrongdoing
salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.

The Gentiles were not chosen before Israel was grafted out.

The Gentiles did not even know the God of the Old Testament.

The Gentiles did not have the Holy Spirit until they heard the gospel
and believed.

You have the horse before the cart.

Stop shooting yourself in the foot, Cameron.
Click to expand...
Who pricked the hearts of those people in Acts 2:37?
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#184
Mar 17, 2022
2,664
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#184
Cameron143 said:
Sure. Some hearts were pricked as in Acts 2, and some were severed as in Acts 7. But hearts are internal. They are in a place that only God can reach. If something is happening at that level, it is the work of God.
Click to expand...
You have an inner theological belief. A system of interpretation based on an idea.

That is why you cannot accept the power of the Good News.

Faith comes from hearing!

Romans 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Without faith you have nothing to work with.

A person cannot possibly have the Holy Spirit until they believe, until they hear.

I think you believe that someone has the Holy Spirit when they are born, or
perhaps before that.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#186
Mar 1, 2022
17,772
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#186
Inquisitor said:
You have an inner theological belief. A system of interpretation based on an idea.

That is why you cannot accept the power of the Good News.

Faith comes from hearing!

Romans 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Without faith you have nothing to work with.

A person cannot possibly have the Holy Spirit until they believe, until they hear.

I think you believe that someone has the Holy Spirit when they are born, or
perhaps before that.
Click to expand...
Faith does come from hearing, but everyone there that day heard the word of God. Why didn't they all respond the same if all that is necessary is the word of God?

John 3 tells us the answer...we are born from above by water and the Spirit. The gospel itself may be the power of God unto salvation, but only as it works in conjunction with the Spirit.

Apart from this work of the Spirit, a person will not respond because he can't receive spiritual things. The word of God is spirit and life. It is the spirit that is quickened....John 6:63.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#193
Mar 1, 2022
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#193
Bob-Carabbio said:
There was no "Actual point".
Click to expand...
Repost the entire original post and I'll explain it in greater detail for you.
It's fine to disagree concerning religious belief or understanding of scripture. It's disingenuous to conclude others are sharing without at least a modicum of conviction.
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
#194
Jun 24, 2020
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#194
Cameron143 said:
it's disingenuous to conclude others are sharing without at least a modicum of conviction.
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Your "Conviction" was never an issue. only your Accuracy. ISLAMIC folks have enough "Conviction" in their silly fantasy to murder me over it (when they get strong enough).
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#195
Mar 1, 2022
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#195
Bob-Carabbio said:
Your "Conviction" was never an issue. only your Accuracy. ISLAMIC folks have enough "Conviction" in their silly fantasy to murder me over it (when they get strong enough).
Click to expand...
So you are simply disingenuous and won't repost because you don't like positions contrary to your own. A good way to remain as you are.
 
S

Soyeong

Active member
#199
Oct 11, 2023
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#199
Bruce_Leiter said:
Ah, if we could obey the whole Bible perfectly the way those passages say, God would save us. HOWEVER, we can't because nobody's perfect. Jesus was and is perfect; it was his perfection and his death that saves us. His resurrection enables us to live a life of good works. So, it's all to his credit, not ours, from beginning to end.
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None of the verses that I cited said anything about perfect obedience, but rather you are fundamentally misunderstanding those verses by trying to insert perfect obedience into them. Even if someone managed to have perfect obedience, then they still wouldn’t earn their salvation as the result of their works (Ephesians 2:8), which is because God’s law was never given as instructions for how to earn our salvation, rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of His law is the way that He is giving us His gift of salvation (Titus 2:11-13). God’s law came with instructions for what to do when His children sinned, so it never required us to have perfect obedience. The only reason why someone would need to have perfect obedience is if they are going to give themselves to pay for the sins of the world, the rest of us can thankfully have our sins forgiven. Our good works in obedience to God’s law give glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), so our obedience to it has never been about trying to take credit from Him.
 
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