Woman first....what do you think?
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K
keepingthingsreal
Guest
You know (you're about to), you really do have a major problem in relation to how you talk to women (you have other problems as well). Seeing how you love 1 Timothy 2:11-15 so much (even though you don't know what it actually says), let me introduce you to something else that Paul said to Timothy in that same epistle.says the hypocrite....
1Ti 5:1
Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;
1Ti 5:2
The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.
Not only are you not anywhere even remotely close to being in the position of authority that Timothy was in, but you also have not been intreating/entreating the older women here (again, this member who you keep on calling "brother" is a SISTER...try reading people's profiles) as mothers, nor have you been intreating/entreating the younger women here as sisters with all purity. Quite frankly, you've been an arrogant (and ignorant) jerk. Are you planning on repenting of the same anytime soon, or will you continue to play the hypocrite yourself?
Back to 1 Timothy 2:11-15
1Ti 2:11
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
In context, which apparently means nothing at all to you, Paul was speaking of a husband and wife relationship. Hence his reference to Adam and Eve who, in case you have not heard, were the first husband and wife. This same Paul called marital relationships, of which Adam's and Eve's was the first, "a great mystery" in that human marriage was ordained by God to mirror the covenant between Christ and his church.
Eph 5:32
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33
Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
In other words, in the same manner in which Christ sacrificially laid his own life down for the church, a husband is to sacrificially lay his own life down for his wife. At the same time, in the same manner in which the church is to reverence Christ, a wife is to reverence HER OWN husband...and not wet-behind-the-ears wannabe "teachers" like you. This is the context of what Paul wrote in 1 Timothy 2:11-15, and it is the same context of what he wrote elsewhere. Like here, for example.
1Co 14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Here, as in 1 Timothy 2:11-15, Paul was talking about proper order IN THE CHURCHES. In case nobody has yet informed you of this, this forum is not a church. Women are free to speak here, and no "novice" like you is going to stop them from doing so.
Also, in context, which, again, apparently means nothing at all to you, "your women" were the wives who were instructed to ask their husbands at home whatever they might have wanted to inquire about IN THE CHURCHES.
Is Snackersmom (or any of the other females here that you have been speaking arrogantly, ignorantly, disrespectfully, and hypocritically to) your wife? Last I checked, you are both single. Are you IN CHURCH? No. You are on a Christian forum where both men and women are free to share scriptures.
Anyhow, Paul's intended point, which you have sorely missed, is that the marital relationship was designed by God to represent the relationship between Christ and his church, and this is why he did not wives usurping authority over the own husbands in a church setting.
Now, let's see how you behave going forward.
K
keepingthingsreal
Guest
Although has no impact on me, I am curious as to why you keep pointing out male dominance and that i am not qualified to be a pastor?? I feel like there's more to your past or upbringing that has hurt you dearly....
Hi JMH, I don't mind answering this if you are sure you are ready for a mature conversation. But that means both sides have to listen to each other and try to understand the others' point of view.
It would mean no name-calling or petty insults, so If you disagree you need to communicate that respectfully. Deal?
He knocked at the outer gate, and a servant girl named Rhoda came to answer it. When she recognized Peter’s voice,
she was so overjoyed that she forgot to open the gate, but ran inside and announced, “Peter is standing at the gate!”
“You are out of your mind,” they told her. But when she kept insisting it was so, they said, “It must be his angel.” But
Peter kept on knocking, and when they opened the door and saw him, they were astounded. Acts 12:13-16
F
ForgiveMeGod
Guest
It was the woman who fell to temptation first in the garden (Genesis 3:6), it was a woman first who Jesus confessed to being (John 4:26), and it was women first who went to the tomb and who first met the risen Christ (Matthew 28:5)(John 20:15)
Nothing is by coincidence with God, so what do you think ?
What is your question and thought process behind this post? I literally have no idea what you are implying here.
O
ocean
Guest
Yeah.... it's interesting how this topic is often posted by a male who is young in the faith. They are happy to make a big huge deal about how their male-ness makes them more qualified than those "prideful daughters of Eve". I don't argue with them on that point because I respect their interpretation of scripture.
But then if I point out that they, themselves, are not qualified to be a pastor due to their youth in Christ, they WIG OUT. Like, seriously, it sets them off big time. Which tells me that it's not really about respecting scripture at all, but about wanting to feel superior. Which is kind of sad.
And although we have no actual reputation of anyone here, the fruit of the Spirit (or lack thereof) says a lot about their spiritual maturity/qualifications.
Well they are not qualified and especially when they demonstrate such a lack of grace or any desire to actually converse. It's all about the Bible (yeah right) until something from the Bible corrects them. Then, you get snark and some other responses that demonstrate the fact they have an awful lot to learn. Demanding complete obedience, ie 'everything I say is right and you need to do as I tell you to' is actually an earmark of a cult.
I am not saying the op belongs to cult. What I am stating, is that trying to control the conversation and dismissing people and snarking is not how a 'pastor' or any person in authority should be behave. In fact, I do not think that people who demonstrate such behavior have any authority given them by God at all.
Preach means to proclaim. The great commission tells us EVERY christian is to proclaim the Gospel.
The woman at the well ran & told all the people to "come & see a man who told me all I did. Is not this the Christ?"
The whole city came out to hear Jesus because of what she did.
Imagine that... a woman, a new convert, preaching without a proper license! No denominational affiliation!
How dare she!?!
And did it all without pharisee approval!!
Only hours saved & did far better job than the "tradition of the elders" armchair theologians that only try to dazzle us with their presence & misconstrued knowledge of the Bible.
I somehow believe The Father was looking down smiling that day.
The woman at the well ran & told all the people to "come & see a man who told me all I did. Is not this the Christ?"
The whole city came out to hear Jesus because of what she did.
Imagine that... a woman, a new convert, preaching without a proper license! No denominational affiliation!
How dare she!?!
And did it all without pharisee approval!!
Only hours saved & did far better job than the "tradition of the elders" armchair theologians that only try to dazzle us with their presence & misconstrued knowledge of the Bible.
I somehow believe The Father was looking down smiling that day.
Your post sure made me smile... .Preach means to proclaim. The great commission tells us EVERY christian is to proclaim the Gospel.
The woman at the well ran & told all the people to "come & see a man who told me all I did. Is not this the Christ?"The whole city came out to hear Jesus because of what she did.
Imagine that... a woman, a new convert, preaching without a proper license! No denominational affiliation!
How dare she!?! And did it all without pharisee approval!! Only hours saved & did far better job than the "tradition of the elders" armchair theologians that only try to dazzle us with their presence & misconstrued knowledge of the Bible.
I somehow believe The Father was looking down smiling that day.
D
daisyseesthesun
Guest
I don't know how well acquainted you are with men (yr profile is not available so I don't know which gender you are), but men gossip quite admirably in every sense and are far from keeping secrets or being the guardians of juicy news, anymore than any woman. And the Bible no where states that Jesus died especially for women. That's almost funny but for the fact that if that is what you think, you need to study up on that particular notion.
Ocean, I was giving lrs68 possible reasons why these verses are in the Bible.
I've never seen a group of men gossip and shunned another man but perhaps it happens.
Woman go into the ministry too. We are usually teaching children and woman. We are everywhere where men can't go. We show God best through how we live. Our father is an all-knowing God he knows some people learn better through seeing then hearing the words preached.
As for the woman being especially worthy of God's grace. Who get put down more then woman in this world? In ever country who suffers more then woman and children?
I think you might be a Proverbs 31:10-31 woman I know my wife is which is absolutely amazing God given6
Forgive me if I responded to this already. If it renders authentein as "authority" then yes, for there is only sketchy evidence for that choice and it doesn't fit the cultural context.
Oh I totally agree with you, I only offered to talk with him further on the grounds that he can be respectful. Despite his obvious immaturity, I do see someone who has interest in the word of God. And perhaps he has pastoral aspirations as well, since being told he's not currently qualified bothered him so much.
But there's no shame in not being ready for something. My prayer is that he gets wherever he needs to go, and if letting him "practice" a respectful disagreement is expedient then I'm here for it! I work in youth ministry so I'm pretty patient and hard to offend.... and he's not even remotely the stubbornest butthead I've ever dealt with
.
O
ocean
Guest
Oh I totally agree with you, I only offered to talk with him further on the grounds that he can be respectful. Despite his obvious immaturity, I do see someone who has interest in the word of God. And perhaps he has pastoral aspirations as well, since being told he's not currently qualified bothered him so much.
But there's no shame in not being ready for something. My prayer is that he gets wherever he needs to go, and if letting him "practice" a respectful disagreement is expedient then I'm here for it! I work in youth ministry so I'm pretty patient and hard to offend.... and he's not even remotely the stubbornest butthead I've ever dealt with
I agree. My contention is always with misapplied and distorted scripture as we so often see when it comes to certain types who seem to believe they are the overlords of all womankind. Objective discussion should always be the ideal and we will never achieve that with dismissal and insults. It seems the phrase 'respectful disagreement' is the gist of your post and wouldn't that make all threads in this forum far more constructive. I would also like to see more threads based on discussion about Jesus and a little less on everyone's 'expert' opinion of their ability to disseminate the precise meaning of any given verse or passage. (that's just my afterthought being thrown in here and nothing to do with what you said
)
Who gets put down and suffers more? I know, answering that will have me being told they don't count, at all, they don't have feelings, and so on. It is animals besides us, animals suffer more, they really do. If they do not count, I don't know why there are some verses in the Bible that seem to disagree with that... like Proverbs 12:10. I know the verses that I will be answered with regarding permission, but I am sure God does not change, and what was in God's creation to start with where humans were first made, everything provided for was the most perfect. Different accommodations were really for sinful humanity, and that doesn't mean better than that perfect provision.
I think God meant for there to be unity of believers, divisions do not benefit, and men and women need God working in their lives equally. We could live more like that. Keeping some from what others come to is still questionable.