How can you tell if there wolves in the church you attend. What are their tell tale signs. Do they operate in packs or are they more lone wolves. How do they enter? And just how much devastation can they cause to a flock?
Wolves
- Thread starter Lanolin
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
well, we already know that they will be in the 'churches' - The Lord tells us that
they do not enter by the door, but by another way'...
1JOHN 2:19.
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us,
they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out,
that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
11PETER 2:1.
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you,
who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying The Lord that bought them,
and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
those who stir-up strife and contention, this would be a very large 'red-flag' - and then,
there are your basic 'control-freaks' who do no allow you to have a voice...
etc.
they do not enter by the door, but by another way'...
1JOHN 2:19.
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us,
they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out,
that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
11PETER 2:1.
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you,
who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying The Lord that bought them,
and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
those who stir-up strife and contention, this would be a very large 'red-flag' - and then,
there are your basic 'control-freaks' who do no allow you to have a voice...
etc.
Am encountering the control freaks kind in one church. Its a bit scary.
Ones that stir up strife and contention, I understand that we are meant to contend for the faith once delivered to the saints, but we are to bring peace wherever we go, not strife, if they will not receive us. We are to shake the dust off our feet as testimony against them.
The problem is if the wolves have already installed themselves in the church and arent budging. They just lie in wait for the sheep and sheep, thinking and trusting theres a shepherd to look after them in these churches, find to their horror that those shepherds are not shepherds at all but hirelings.
Jude 1:4 [kjv] says, (of) "certain men [G444 -anthrōpoi ] crept in unawares"...
Jude 1:8-19, esp v.19 -
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. 12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
A Call to Persevere
(Hebrews 10:19-39)
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves [or,' setting themselves apart'-ylt], sensual [or, 'natural men'-ylt (i.e. soulish/[merely]of the senses)], having not the Spirit.
Jude 1:8-19, esp v.19 -
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. 12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
A Call to Persevere
(Hebrews 10:19-39)
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves [or,' setting themselves apart'-ylt], sensual [or, 'natural men'-ylt (i.e. soulish/[merely]of the senses)], having not the Spirit.
It all boils down to discernment of spirits. The Holy Spirit always speaks in an encouraging manner. It does not try to make you feel dirty or small. Satan and his demons talks to us in an accusatory and demeaning way. Making us feel guilty and ashamed.
Once you discern how these spirits treat people you begin to see their goals, also called their fruits. You see the fruits of these wolves and you know which spirits guide them.
How devastating are they? They can literally take over the church and even whole denominations.
I love what the Apostle Paul stated at Acts 20:27-31.
"For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. vs28, Be on guard for yourselves and all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shephered the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. vs29, I KNOW, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you not sparing the flock. vs30, and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples to them. vs31, Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each on with tears."
Now, I fully realze that Paul is mainly addressing church leaders etc but we also have an obligation as disciples to confront those who are teaching perverse things as well. Notice to that Paul says that savage wolves will not only arise from within your own ranks but even from others coming in from outside of the church.
So, how do we spot these wolves? Well for one thing Jesus said at Matthew 7:15-23 said (vs16) "you will know them by their fruits. This also includes doctrinal fruit and not just how they may be living. Too me the most "lethal" words in the Bible are to false prophets and teachers etc I found at vs23 where Jesus says of them "I NEVER KNEW YOU."
Now, going back to Acts 20:32 Paul commends them to God and His word, (why) because it will build you up. To spot error you have to know the word of God and compare what people say and teach to that word. Acts 17:11, "Now these were more NOBLEMINDED (how were they more nobleminded?) than those in Thessalonica, for (or becasue) they received the word with great eargerness EXAMINING THE SCIRPTURES DAIL TO SEE WHETHER THESE THINGS WERE SO." In other words, they even checked out the Apostle Paul to see what he said was so.
You also have the Holy Spirit to help you spot error and there is also the gift of discernment. Also keep in mind that error is just about 99% of the time mixed with some truth so it appears legit. If you come unto something that seems "untoward" (when you can) go to their statement of beliefs and read it first. I said "when you can" because not everybody is posting where they go to church etc. Bottom line, compare what anybody says with what the Bible says and teaches. Hope this helps.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Sheep cannot defend themselves against wolves. All a sheep can do is cry out "Help!" and RUN!
It's the shepherd (pastor) that God has placed over a congregation (flock) that is equipped to uncover wolves and defend the sheep. Of course, Yeshua/Jesus is our Great Shepherd and backs up the pastor (shepherd).
@Deade is correct that "discernment of spirits" is necessary. These are some tell tale signs to watch for:
Wolves:
Very "showy" with good works - but no genuine love for God or others (this is their "fake sheepskin")
Only interested in volunteer work that people can "see" - don't like "behind the scene" volunteer work
Seek weak members in the congregation (children, widows, elderly, insecure, lonely - those that are very needy)
Time Wasters - consume all the pastor's or leadership's time on frivolous things
Talk about the pastor/leadership and other strong Christians behind their backs
Falsely accusing others/gossipers
Have a "secret" agenda - seeking something for themselves (looking for lonely rich widows, etc......)
Always trying to appear important and win people over
Overly disruptive in prayer meetings or Bible studies
These are just some, there's more.
I really like the scriptures @TheDivineWatermark listed! Those were excellent!
It's the shepherd (pastor) that God has placed over a congregation (flock) that is equipped to uncover wolves and defend the sheep. Of course, Yeshua/Jesus is our Great Shepherd and backs up the pastor (shepherd).
@Deade is correct that "discernment of spirits" is necessary. These are some tell tale signs to watch for:
Wolves:
Very "showy" with good works - but no genuine love for God or others (this is their "fake sheepskin")
Only interested in volunteer work that people can "see" - don't like "behind the scene" volunteer work
Seek weak members in the congregation (children, widows, elderly, insecure, lonely - those that are very needy)
Time Wasters - consume all the pastor's or leadership's time on frivolous things
Talk about the pastor/leadership and other strong Christians behind their backs
Falsely accusing others/gossipers
Have a "secret" agenda - seeking something for themselves (looking for lonely rich widows, etc......)
Always trying to appear important and win people over
Overly disruptive in prayer meetings or Bible studies
These are just some, there's more.
I really like the scriptures @TheDivineWatermark listed! Those were excellent!
Those that separate themselves...would it be church board members...they separate themselves from the rest of the flock, have their own meetings nobody is privy to, seem to be the ones in advantage cos they get voted in. I dont know, dont want to say too much but I know that board members seem to have lots of power over a flock and never seem to say what they mean.
Jude says their fruit withers, they have no fruit.
Someone else says doctrinal fruit. Can we identify these types of fruits.?
If the fruits of the holy spirit are love, peace, joy etc what would the fruits of an unholy spirit be.
Lust, money, power?
what would be their fruits?It all boils down to discernment of spirits. The Holy Spirit always speaks in an encouraging manner. It does not try to make you feel dirty or small. Satan and his demons talks to us in an accusatory and demeaning way. Making us feel guilty and ashamed.
Once you discern how these spirits treat people you begin to see their goals, also called their fruits. You see the fruits of these wolves and you know which spirits guide them.
How devastating are they? They can literally take over the church and even whole denominations.
Jude says their fruit withers, they have no fruit.
Someone else says doctrinal fruit. Can we identify these types of fruits.?
If the fruits of the holy spirit are love, peace, joy etc what would the fruits of an unholy spirit be.
Lust, money, power?
Here is a pretty good list:
Gal. 5:19-21 "Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revelings, and things like these; of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
Oft times the Spirit will just reveal them to you. Ask the Lord what He would have you do or say. Never panic.
1 John
4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Without examples of walking in the Spirit and living a life of love, looking for wolves is irrelevant,
because one could discover you are the wolf seeking others to bring down.
We all have a critical spirit, that which is cynical and doubts others rather than thinking the best
and sharing love from the heart.
Jesus put it simply. Purify your heart, walk in the way of Jesus, and then you will see what needs
to be corrected and most of all that which needs to be encouraged.
Or in other words, we have no lack of cynics, we lack followers of Jesus.
because one could discover you are the wolf seeking others to bring down.
We all have a critical spirit, that which is cynical and doubts others rather than thinking the best
and sharing love from the heart.
Jesus put it simply. Purify your heart, walk in the way of Jesus, and then you will see what needs
to be corrected and most of all that which needs to be encouraged.
Or in other words, we have no lack of cynics, we lack followers of Jesus.
Actually, I agree with follow on this. We are told to take heed to ourselves many times in the scriptures. Is so very important to have communion with Holy Spirit because He will point out to us those ways of thinking that are not Christlike. He is the perfect judge of our heart because He never condemns, and I don’t believe He points out all errors at once or we would be overwhelmed.
There’s a balance when we rest on the Lord for our keeping.
But, this isn’t a wolf in the flock. This is recognizing what is flesh and where we need renewed in mind.
A wolf was never a sheep don’t you think? I would think a wolf would be one totally given over to the demonic. And is out to kill the anointing.
Jesus called one a fox. That would be discerning of spirits. But, a fox and a wolf are different.
So what would be the defining chararacter of a wolf?
There’s a balance when we rest on the Lord for our keeping.
But, this isn’t a wolf in the flock. This is recognizing what is flesh and where we need renewed in mind.
A wolf was never a sheep don’t you think? I would think a wolf would be one totally given over to the demonic. And is out to kill the anointing.
Jesus called one a fox. That would be discerning of spirits. But, a fox and a wolf are different.
So what would be the defining chararacter of a wolf?
Wolves come across as everyone best friend.. They seem like wonderful people.. But once they gain influence, then you will see them pushing false doctrines and seeking to undermine true Christians in the eyes of babes in Christ.. So as to draw people away from good council..
Wolves really like power.. So they will seek to rise up in any church organization to the most influential position they can hold..
N
newton3003
Guest
.
Wolves generally operate in packs. A lone wolf is an exception.
But if there are sheep in a church that normally accommodates people, then either a lone wolf or a pack of wolves can do alot of damage.
if it's any consolation, once they've had their fill they sleep for much of the rest of the day.
They are also good for balancing our ecological environment.
The Bible has clearly given us the characteristics of wolves in sheep's clothing. All Christians should study the New Testament and what Christ and His apostles had to say about them. Then carefully examine the words and actions of those who claim to be prophets, apostles, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. Both their doctrines and their lifestyles will give them away. See 2 Peter 2 and other relevant passages.
Even so, hundreds (if not thousands) of Christians are being deceived daily because they are not applying Scripture to everything. The wolves are everywhere --- on radio, on TV, and in the books being sold in Christian bookstores. There are also wolves on Christian Internet forums who oppose Gospel truths and Bible truths. They refuse to admit that they are wrong and repent of their false beliefs. Instead, they vigorously promote heresies.
Well since they are in sheep's clothing, they will APPEAR as sheep, not as evil demonic creatures. They will appear as angels of light and ministers of righteousness. Check you Bible.
I remember one lady was like way too friendly, she was teaching in the church and asked me to come with her on what she prrsented as a missions trip, and basically scammed me of $2000, cos she railroaded me into agreeing to booking it on my behalf. I couldnt go, but never got refunded. It didnt turn out to be any kind of missions trip.
It was kind of strange because she seeemd really nice at first..but maybe too friendly. After that she basically rang the pastor and made a big sob story about me saying i had agreed when I hadnt even had time to think about it. And several other times she would ask huge favours, picking on me cos i was single.
I then got bad vibes about this lady who seemed all righteous to begin with but some of her actions didnt add up. After a while she didnt come back to this church but I didnt go for a long time cos she was quite unforgiving and badmouthing me. I didnt think she was a wolf at first. But she was quite high up and had the pastors ear. She had come from a christian family but would tell us her ex husband wanted to kidnap her children or something. I never got the real story about that. The church took her on and provided everything even gave her a secreatry job.
Anyway she left the church and that job and everything but i kind of am wary of the way she was manipulating me, she was also teaching sunday school and many of the children said she was quite bossy and demanding.
I didnt want to go back to this church for awhile until another member asked me to do some ministry. Whenever she was there i felt i had to keep away from her. Its weird because this hadnt happened in any other church i attended usually we could work things out and forgive if there was misunderstandings. But with this person nope.
It was kind of strange because she seeemd really nice at first..but maybe too friendly. After that she basically rang the pastor and made a big sob story about me saying i had agreed when I hadnt even had time to think about it. And several other times she would ask huge favours, picking on me cos i was single.
I then got bad vibes about this lady who seemed all righteous to begin with but some of her actions didnt add up. After a while she didnt come back to this church but I didnt go for a long time cos she was quite unforgiving and badmouthing me. I didnt think she was a wolf at first. But she was quite high up and had the pastors ear. She had come from a christian family but would tell us her ex husband wanted to kidnap her children or something. I never got the real story about that. The church took her on and provided everything even gave her a secreatry job.
Anyway she left the church and that job and everything but i kind of am wary of the way she was manipulating me, she was also teaching sunday school and many of the children said she was quite bossy and demanding.
I didnt want to go back to this church for awhile until another member asked me to do some ministry. Whenever she was there i felt i had to keep away from her. Its weird because this hadnt happened in any other church i attended usually we could work things out and forgive if there was misunderstandings. But with this person nope.
I didnt say anything to anyone else about it in this church. I just thought, keep my distance. She had asked others to come with her on the trip in the church, she obviously needed a companion but the way she manipulated me wasnt right. Anyway, shes not there anymore but...the pastor did favour her and didnt want to listen to my side of the story. He also called my mother a liar when she stopped me from going on the trip. As it was to pakistan. My mum was just looking out for me. Its not actually the safest place to go but this ladies family was there. But i dont speak the lanaguage either.
Anyway am a lot more wary now if someones too friendly. When i look back on it she was practically gushing over me when i first met her. I was doing library stuff which is really, only what im called to do and she was overly flattering about it. My mum then questioned her reactions about me not going with her on the trip asking if she was gay. I dont think so but then why was she really upset and wouldnt listen to reason.
This was a few years ago now. I think i learned from it to be more careful with people who want to befriend me.
Anyway am a lot more wary now if someones too friendly. When i look back on it she was practically gushing over me when i first met her. I was doing library stuff which is really, only what im called to do and she was overly flattering about it. My mum then questioned her reactions about me not going with her on the trip asking if she was gay. I dont think so but then why was she really upset and wouldnt listen to reason.
This was a few years ago now. I think i learned from it to be more careful with people who want to befriend me.