Wolves in sheep's Clothing
- Thread starter BillG
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
R
Ralph-
Guest
Why do people think the works gospel is behind every tree and under every rock in the church these days? It's not, people. It's really not.
Wolves and false teachers are those that try to get us to rely on what we do instead of what Jesus has done in His finished work.
Often people in the church are fake, phony and false because they just don't want to live for Christ. They aren't trying to earn their way to heaven. They just don't care about, or want to do good. This is easily the most common thing I see among 'Christians'.
The works gospel is not the problem in the church today. Licentiousness is.
A wolf wishes to split the church, turn people against each other.
The accusation all are just legalists doomed to hell, and only the free grace believers
are born again, is such a divisive split.
One danger of revival, is when people see things as black and white. Jesus saw peoples
hearts and cleansed the disciples to walk in purity and holiness. A sinful people desiring
to drive out those who aspire to walk in the ways of Jesus is just poison to the spirit,
judgementalism, and failure.
When Jesus talked about false teachers, he is talking about their hearts and how they
care for people. Sarcasm, visciousness, aggression, anger, humiliation, mocking, condescension,
being rude, dismissive, attacking individuals and not the subject, are all traits of false teachers
and false teaching. We are called only to confront sin, obvious sin, that more than one can
testify to.
The problem is false teachers will always believe they are right, and the others are lost,
evil, the worst hypocrites and deceived people ever. In reality they are little different from
the people around them, yet this is so annoying, they will deny it to the last.
Free Grace theology to my school of theology is heretical and false.
Unfortunately many in cc are happy to follow this view, so there will be a division among
the fellowship, because part of their belief system is to condemn non-free grace believers
as legalists. To believe something is fine, as long as people do not project their moral
beliefs about others where it is not true, and humbly accept others as holding a valid
different view. If they cannot do this, they have become the wolves and false teachers
with the fruit that goes with their state.
Sadly many contributors have called me a false teacher, leading people to hell, which is
testimony to their lack of biblical knowledge and what I stand for.
Putting this simply if you can accept Methodists, Baptists, Anglicans, Reformed, Charismatics
are saved, then we are brothers and sisters in Christ. If not, you are probably outside the
evangelical fellowship. I know it is important to recognize such distinctions and not victimise
people for holding well established theological positions, unless you desire division as your
intention and to upset people rather than participate is discussion and good exchanges.
R
Ralph-
Guest
Hey, BillG. Here's Paul passing judgment on wolves for teaching false doctrine.
"their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some."-2 Timothy 2:17-18
"19keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. 20Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme."-1 Timothy 1:19-20
"12As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!"-Galatians 5:12
"their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some."-2 Timothy 2:17-18
"19keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. 20Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme."-1 Timothy 1:19-20
"12As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!"-Galatians 5:12
Why? because it is most often the case. Man is always trying to work his way into God's good graces when it's already his IN Christ. Instead of finding more grace., man finds he is totally depleted and can't understand what he is doing wrong.
The Bible says my people perish for lack of knowledge. Many are perishing because although their "way" seems like a good way paved with good intentions and good works., it's the way of the old flesh and all the good intentions in the world are about putting new wine in old dried up wine skins. It will not ever work.
Man is always wondering what he/she can do more to be closer to God... when the Bible tells us clearly it is by faith in Jesus and His finished work we access our Father in all His loveliness. There is no other way to access Him but man in his religious self will continually try to walk the Christian life by his flesh. He/she has yet to understand it is not done in and by the flesh but in and by the spirit.
Most Christians don't want to be fake., phony and false. But they are so busy trying to walk in their flesh they miss the simplicity of what Jesus has already done to make them born again. Today., we need to be renewing our minds to the truth of who we are NOW already in Christ... we are born again.. new creations IN Christ.
We are not bested up versions of what we can make our flesh to be. Trying to best up our flesh is like trying to maneuver a screen submarine into the ocean of life.
Mark 10:17-27 in the story of the rich young ruler.... he was vigilant and made an effort to keep all the law. Yet, as with all of us when we try to keep the law by our own efforts, he still felt something was missing.
The rich young ruler asked Jesus, “What shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?” The rich young ruler wanted Jesus to tell him what more he needed to do so he could have the favor of God and inherit eternal life. This is how the natural world works. It makes sense in our minds and in our flesh that we will try, and God will reward our efforts.
Makes sense to our natural minds but the way of the flesh is not the way of the Spirit.
Last edited:
Joaniemarie,
Here is the evidence that by following false teachers, you have become thoroughly confused. You are now unable to distinguish between "man" (the natural man) and those who are "in Christ" (believers) and who have access to God the Father. You speak of them as though they are identical when they are not.
Here's more of your nonsense. But it is more than nonsense. You are accusing Christians when only God know's their hearts. So now you have become A CONFUSED JUDGE of Christians. "Man" is the natural man devoid of the Holy Spirit. "The Christian life" is lived by those who possess the Holy Spirit. But in your confused mind, they are interchangeable. That is pathetic.
How do you know that "most Christians" are "so busy trying to walk in their flesh"???? Are you God who knows the hearts of Christians? Does this not display both stupidity and arrogance?
And did you know that "new creations in Christ" DO NOT follow false teachers like Prince, Ellis, et al. but expose their lies? Had you truly renewed your mind, you would have given heed to what other Christians have told you about these liars. Instead, you have PERSISTED in posting their lies over and over again. Which shows that you have not "renewed your mind" at all.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But the spiritual man tries all things [he [SUP][a][/SUP]examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things], yet is himself to be put on trial and judged by no one [he can read the meaning of everything, but no one can properly discern or appraise or get an insight into him].
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For who has known or understood the mind (the counsels and purposes) of the Lord so as to guide and instruct Him and give Him knowledge? But we have the mind of Christ (the Messiah) and do hold the thoughts (feelings and purposes) of His heart.
D
Depleted
Guest
Yeah, the only way I can get something from my hard drive onto this site anymore is to post it somewhere else than copy-paste it here.Ah...nope. You cant open them
Been that way since last September.
I cannot make my computer giddyupandgo. It's just a fact of life for me. Okay I'll stop. Sorry for the derail.
D
Depleted
Guest
But you're not going for God's will. You're going for "it." This "it" you posted about today.
Why? because it is most often the case. Man is always trying to work his way into God's good graces when it's already his IN Christ. Instead of finding more grace., man finds he is totally depleted and can't understand what he is doing wrong.
The Bible says my people perish for lack of knowledge. Many are perishing because although their "way" seems like a good way paved with good intentions and good works., it's the way of the old flesh and all the good intentions in the world are about putting new wine in old dried up wine skins. It will not ever work.
Man is always wondering what he/she can do more to be closer to God... when the Bible tells us clearly it is by faith in Jesus and His finished work we access our Father in all His loveliness. There is no other way to access Him but man in his religious self will continually try to walk the Christian life by his flesh. He/she has yet to understand it is not done in and by the flesh but in and by the spirit.
Most Christians don't want to be fake., phony and false. But they are so busy trying to walk in their flesh they miss the simplicity of what Jesus has already done to make them born again. Today., we need to be renewing our minds to the truth of who we are NOW already in Christ... we are born again.. new creations IN Christ.
We are not bested up versions of what we can make our flesh to be. Trying to best up our flesh is like trying to maneuver a screen submarine into the ocean of life.
Mark 10:17-27 in the story of the rich young ruler.... he was vigilant and made an effort to keep all the law. Yet, as with all of us when we try to keep the law by our own efforts, he still felt something was missing.
The rich young ruler asked Jesus, “What shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?” The rich young ruler wanted Jesus to tell him what more he needed to do so he could have the favor of God and inherit eternal life. This is how the natural world works. It makes sense in our minds and in our flesh that we will try, and God will reward our efforts.
Makes sense to our natural minds but the way of the flesh is not the way of the Spirit.
(Another Joseph Prince doozy.)
I just hate it when the giddyupandgo done gotupandwent.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Ariel, we must judge those within our congregations. With visitors and other outsiders, it is different. Those we just witness to. 2 Ti. 3:8,9: "Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was."
Auntie, we must strive with wolves that are in our congregations as we may have some babies in Christ. The wolves believe in their teachings because their heart is their belly. If they poison our babies we could lose them before they mature enough to resist.
Yes Marc, the poison the wolves spread can kill a seeker and bind a believer if they are still immature. That is why we must be hard on those that cause division in our flocks.
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
Actually mark if you would read Acts 20:27-31 you will discover the Apostle Paul says the wolves will attack the church not only from without, like the moromns, jw's, unitarians, christadelphians, the mind science teachers but they will also attack the church from within it's own ranks, vs29 and 30.
Then there is 2 Peter 2:1,2. Also 2 Peter 2:18-22. So who are the wolves within the church? I think the biggest wolves are the wof movement who blantly introduce destructive heresies. Notice at vs that Peter calls them "False prophets" and that they are. Also Peter backs up what Jesus said at Matthew 7:15-23 regarding false prophets. And when Jesus says at vs16, "you will know them by their fruits," He's talking about their teachings.
And one last thing marc, "Yes, true believers can be deceived, no doubt about it. If it were't so there would not be a gift of discernment. Also, keep in mind the Apostle Peter is writing to believers and at 2 Peter 2:2, "many will follow their pernicious ways, and because of them the way of the truth will be maigned." Lastly, and getting back to wof teachings, I know of many Christians that are truly saved but yet they bought into the wof movement. Just about all them left because they came to their senses thanks be to God waking them up.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
of course believers can be deceived...or Jesus would not have warned us multiple times of that possibility
being deceived does not equal falling away
that is why we do not judge people's hearts, but when we see them falling prey to the devil, we pray for them
deception is one thing that Christians seem to think they are above. they are not
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
I don't think this is my imagination
I think Prince is getting worse which makes sense because the more you are deceived...and he is deceived himself to teach and interpret as he does...the worse you will go...you spiral downward
it never ends well
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
Originally Posted by joaniemarie
Why? because it is most often the case. Man is always trying to work his way into God's good graces when it's already his IN Christ... Man is always wondering what he/she can do more to be closer to God... when the Bible tells us clearly it is by faith in Jesus and His finished work we access our Father in all His loveliness.
and yet it is an established fact that some are far closer than others
God says we will find Him when we search for Him with our entire hearts...He is not hiding anywhere...in fact He is hiding in plain sight
hanging on the words of a man, and a false teacher at that, does not create a relationship with our Father, does not bring us closer to Jesus and does not 'hook us up' with the Holy Spirit as our teacher...the opposite happens
we need to remember what Paul said to the Galatians...some have accepted ANOTHER JESUS and not the Son of God
here is an excerpt from someone I consider an excellent and true teacher of the Bible...in fact he wrote much of the NT!
here, in his own words, Paul the Apostle, chosen and appointed by Jesus Himself so maybe we should pay attention:
No Other Gospel...Galatians 1
6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—
7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!
9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
Prince has perverted the truth of the word of God and is preaching another Jesus. you know, I don't think I would even call him a wolf...but a false teacher...and a false prophet (as he would be supposedly giving insight into the word)
Paul, in Galatians, does not specify trying to be saved through works...but through one ordinance only
we cannot have a relationship with Christ based on the faith of another, so you know, like Jesus said...where your heart is, there will be your treasure also
where is your heart then? choosing and picking from false teachers because they promise you a reward right now?
or is is with Jesus...seeking Him, following Him and wanting to be with Him?
the whole time, the entire time, God is saying 'choose you THIS day whom you will follow'
Oh my gosh I think I did it! Fingers crossed!
Where are you posting the link to?
