Will there be a fourth temple in Jerusalem?
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
So neither of you have explanation as to why Paul never uses the "definite article ['the']" when speaking [writing] of us as "temple," as I mentioned in the top portion of my Post #27?
I believe Paul is very purposeful and deliberate in his writings (i.e. this is no accident that he does NOT use "the definite article ['the']" when referring to US as "temple").
I know, and it's not my intention at all to upset anyone. I'm down here in Florida, northwest FL, and the status quo is the pre-trib view by the VAST majority. This is where people think if you don't hold this view, then you will not be taken to heaven. It's seen as anti-Christ to reject this viewpoint. I avoid bringing it up in church because I fear freaking people out towards me. Also we haven't really gone over this topic since I've been there, so I'm just not trying to bring it up randomly first, to avoid looking like I'm just trying to start trouble. I'd rather start asking questions while we're already studying it, because of peoples emotional attachment to it.Yes that does pose a problem, funny I was thinking this very thing the other day.
There are so many problems with this futurist view, the appeal to emotion must be very strong.
LOL says the person who flips his lid and questions others salvation because we hold a different viewpoint, that fits EVERTHING you just posted SO MUCH better than the view you're presenting. Bottom line is that to get to your view you have to ADD to the text. I've found this view you can pull from the text. I could post 15 pages to walk you through EXACTLY what I'm talking about, but you're too emotionally attached to your preconceived view that it causes you to attack your sisters and brothers salvation status simply because we disagree, and I don't want to argue with someone with a mind completely closed to being wrong. How can I possible convince someone that when Jesus says "this generation will not pass before ALL these things take place", that it means EXACTLY what it says when they add to the text that it really means "this will happen thousands of years in the future to a people who I am not looking in the eyes and talking to right now. this "really means" that all the warnings I'm giving YOU are not really for you, they are for a distant future generation thousands of years away".
How can I "convince" someone unwilling to get that? Or "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Or
"When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. "
Or
"Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me, but weep for yourselves and for your children."
He is talking you them, He is warning THEM. Nothing you presented as scriptural proof for your view in Ezekiel contradicts my view at all. That's been the most amazing thing about Him bringing me to see these things this way, just how well it fits all of scripture in a way that the "pre-trib rapture" NEVER did, nor this idea that God has this future back up plan for Israel in the future that give an "okay" for them rejecting Jesus "for now".
Again I have taken part in too much arguing with other Christians in a fruitless way that I'm starting to see is not glorifying to Him in any way. I'm saying "not glorifying", but really I feel I am actually making Him look bad with these specific behaviors I've developed. I'm talking about coming here day in and out debating the same things with the same people in a completely fruitless way because that's just what I do? I am not saying any of these things are bad, but doing this same thing every day has become pointless when I take a step back and really think about it. I don't want to do that anymore.
I do not know how to do this in a better way, but I'm trying different things. That's why I'm saying I don't want to get in a pointless back and forth over this with you. It's not you, it's me. But I do honestly see you as WAY to emotionally tied to this subject to have any kind of fruitful conversation about it. You are attacking our salvation over it. So that's why I'm not going to keep just escalating this with you. I do really hope you have a great day.
I agree: Those who want the truth will seek the truth. And as you mentioned previously, Romans 11 makes the point that God is not done with Israel:
"ROMANS 11:GOD'S "PLAN B" FOR ISRAEL
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion [Jerusalem] the Deliverer [Christ], and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob [Israel]:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' [Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob] sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Need I say any more to one who believes his logic is superior to God's?"
Hey folks,
Well, I'm not convinced that there will be an actual temple constructed. Or that one is required before Jesus' return. I do, however understand that the great tribulation that Jesus spoke of will be witnessed by his followers alive on the earth as it comes. We are now standing in the days of tribulation. Are they as great as they will get? Likely not. But Jesus used the Great Tribulation as a sign to his followers. I'm just not sold on the idea that he warned his followers of a sign that they would never see.
So many seem to be confused about the teachings of the Scriptures concerning the days of Great Tribulation and the wrath of God. They are not the same event or phenomenon. The great tribulation comes upon the earth because of Satan and sin. All the pain and anger and hate created from our growing sin problem. That will be the impetus of the Great Tribulation.
The wrath of God, on the other hand, is shown us in the Revelation of Jesus where God has His angels pour out their bowls of wrath after Jesus has taken those who are his Father's out of harm's way. That is what God has promised us that we will not endure.
Even in the very writing that describes all of this, we find that God's wrath follows, that's 'to come after'. It's literally the section that many copies of Scripture title "the harvesting of the earth". Revelation 14:14-20. This is the account of Jesus' return and the ensuing wrath of God to come upon those left behind.
I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.
That's Jesus! He is coming on the clouds and with his sharp sickle in his hand he will harvest the good grapes of the vineyard.
Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.
That's all the rest who are left thrown into the winepress of God's wrath.
A wholly and completely separate event from the days of Great Tribulation that comes upon the earth.
God bless,
Ted
Well, I'm not convinced that there will be an actual temple constructed. Or that one is required before Jesus' return. I do, however understand that the great tribulation that Jesus spoke of will be witnessed by his followers alive on the earth as it comes. We are now standing in the days of tribulation. Are they as great as they will get? Likely not. But Jesus used the Great Tribulation as a sign to his followers. I'm just not sold on the idea that he warned his followers of a sign that they would never see.
So many seem to be confused about the teachings of the Scriptures concerning the days of Great Tribulation and the wrath of God. They are not the same event or phenomenon. The great tribulation comes upon the earth because of Satan and sin. All the pain and anger and hate created from our growing sin problem. That will be the impetus of the Great Tribulation.
The wrath of God, on the other hand, is shown us in the Revelation of Jesus where God has His angels pour out their bowls of wrath after Jesus has taken those who are his Father's out of harm's way. That is what God has promised us that we will not endure.
Even in the very writing that describes all of this, we find that God's wrath follows, that's 'to come after'. It's literally the section that many copies of Scripture title "the harvesting of the earth". Revelation 14:14-20. This is the account of Jesus' return and the ensuing wrath of God to come upon those left behind.
I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.
That's Jesus! He is coming on the clouds and with his sharp sickle in his hand he will harvest the good grapes of the vineyard.
Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.
That's all the rest who are left thrown into the winepress of God's wrath.
A wholly and completely separate event from the days of Great Tribulation that comes upon the earth.
God bless,
Ted
“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”
Matthew 11:13 KJV
“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.”
Matthew 5:17 KJV
“and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. ….Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.”
Acts 3:20-21, 24 KJV
the ot prophecies we’re being fulfilled in tbat generetion
“For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.”
Luke 21:22 KJV
But the new testement has its own prophecies that are being fulfilled until the return of Jesus
the old testement prophecies until his first coming and shortly after the new testement prophecies reach i to the end of the world
each testement has prophecy that has been and th at is now being and will be fulfilled until Christs return
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. …. But he spake of the temple of his body.
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:27, 29 KJV
“Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.”
1 Corinthians 12:27 KJV
I answered this in the Lion of Judah thread; he said all the prophets prophesied about it; he didn't say that it was all they ever prophesied about. Just like getting baptized by John was not all Jesus did to fulfill all righteousness.
Im not following your logic. The New Testament has come its the culmination of the old the fulfillment t of all the prophecy in tbe law , the psalms and prophets concerning Christ and his eternal kingdom ….
The prophecy in the ot is about the gospel and that generetion
The prophecy in the nt corresponds to the gospel not the old testsment . Each testement corrssponds to each coming of the messiah the Old Testament ends with a promise of the messiah who would fulfill the prophets and law and psalms and bring a New Testament for all people
sone of you guys are looking for something to be fulfilled th at happens almost 2000 years ago
theres prophecy in the New Testament also concerning his second coming . The new testement prophecy hasn’t been fulfilled yet. Christian’s need to look for the new testement prophecy
Yes just after it explains it’s not talking about the flesh and blood israel
“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:
but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
Romans 9:6-8 KJV
God isn’t identifying israel by who thier parents are or who thier dna came from that’s old testement flesh doctrine one has to be born of God through Christ to be an hier a child of promise in Christ there’s absolutely no other salvstion a available to mankind Israeli or gentile Jesus spirit receives makes one “ isreal”
“Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved…… For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”( that’s the only way israel or gentile can be saved )
Romans 10:1, 11-13 KJV
They can’t be saved unless they repent and believe the gospel and name of Jesus Christ
all israal will be saved just not the israel man has identified through flesh and blood
Because "Amill-teachings" (etc)--basically "Covenant Theology"--does not recognize the TWO distinct "RAISE" issues here in Acts 3 (Peter, speaking to "ye men of Israel," who he later in the passage tells them, "Repent")...:
--the one referring to His being RAISED to a position of prominence in His earthly ministry BEFORE the Cross (vv.22,26 "Unto you first God, having RAISED UP His Servant Jesus, SENT Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities"--i.e. His earthly ministry before His death);
--the other referring to His being RAISED from the dead AFTER the Cross (v.15)
...and in missing these TWO distinct "RAISE" issues in this chpt, they (CT) MISS the import of this text, and completely misunderstand the point being made in this context.
Where it says (in your verse) "all the prophets FROM SAMUEL and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have LIKEWISE FORETOLD OF THESE DAYS"--This is referring to the aspect that Peter's hearers HAD OVERLOOKED / BYPASSED in their own "expectation" of [only] a kingly Messiah (who would overthrow Rome for them, etc)...
...they thus MISSED the parts about His "SUFFERING SERVANT" aspect (who would be "REJECTED")... They are thinking, THIS cannot be him, coz LOOK! He was rejected and DIED after all! ("whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate... ye denied the Holy One and the Just... And killed the Prince of life")...
But Peter is pointing out (specifically)--in his wording of: "... FORETOLD OF THESE DAYS"--His "SUFFERING SERVANT" days (of His "rejection"... and ultimately His "death")... for example:
--where 1 Samuel 8:7 says - "And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them." This connects both with the prophecy of Gen37:8 (Joseph's FIRST dream [connected with Christ's FIRST advent], to which Joseph's brothers responded to him [scoffingly], "Shalt thou indeed reign over us?") as well as Jesus' own words He spoke in Luke 19:14 (in story language--but ABOUT Him and them--also prophetically), "But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us." ;
--"cut off" is language used by Jeremiah about himself (but prophetically is also about Jesus Himself), where in Jer11:19 it says, "But I was like a lamb or an ox that is brought to the slaughter; and I knew not that they had devised devices against me, saying, Let us destroy the tree with the fruit thereof, and let us cut him off from the land of the living [comp. this "land of the living" phrase where it refers specifically to Israel/Jerusalem, elsewhere], that his name may be no more remembered" (see also the Dan9 TIME-prophecy, in v.26a "And after 62 Weeks shall Messiah be CUT OFF, and have nothing [/or, but not for himself]...")
It was "THESE" aspects (that they had OVERLOOKED / BYPASSED in their "expectation" of a KINGLY messiah [ONLY]--AT THAT TIME [meaning, His FIRST advent]) that Peter was referring to in his words of v.24 (you quoted, at top) which also correspond with what v.18 as well as the two places he says "His SERVANT Jesus" (vv.13,26)--It was this aspect that THEY HAD OVERLOOKED which Peter is drawing their attention to in Acts 3, AS [PROPHETIC] FULFILLMENTS [ALSO!] regarding their Messiah (His "SUFFERING SERVANT" aspect): "[prophets had] SPOKE OF THESE DAYS" (of His "rejection" [the aspect they had OVERLOOKED, from OT prophecies regarding Him]... and not merely of His "kingly REIGN" which was the only aspect they were zeroing in on, at that point.)
Agreed! And I've made the same points (I think to the same member
) in a number of past posts.Luke 21:22 isn't saying "this right here" (He's spelling out) is the COMPLETE fulfillment of ALL [OT] prophecy; it is saying, the 70ad events cannot be LEFT OUT (otherwise "all prophecy" WOULDN'T be "fulfilled" if parts were left out).
And (besides), verse 32's "till ALL shall have taken place" MUST necessarily INCLUDE the very "of LENGTHY-DURATION" items that v.24 had ALREADY referred to ("and they shall be led away captive into all the nations, AND Jerusalem shall be TRODDEN DOWN of the Gentiles [see Rev11's TIMING of this (yet "future")] UNTIL the TIMES of the Gentiles [which STARTED in 605bc! and still needs its TOES yet! lol] be fulfilled" [the last "part" of this takes the reader clear to His Second Coming TO THE EARTH Rev19])
Acts 3...
...the verse you quoted...
... which many (knee-deep in "Covenant Theology") want to make say that David's throne has NOW been "RELOCATED" up to Heaven.
This isn't the point of this text / context.
It says that all that was written was being fulfilled it’s talking about the prophets.
“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. ( like Daniel said would come )
Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. ( the nt prophecy wasn’t yet written the ot was about to be fulfilled )
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.”
Luke 21:20-22, 32 KJV
that same generation Jerusalems temple was destroyed and the city also burned up and destroyed and the people were scattered into the nations by rome.
after that there’s never a new testement word stating a rebuilding of an earthly Jerusalem all the nt talks about is the heavenly Jerusalem where Christ ( son of man ) is in David’s throne at the right hand of God and inheritance of that kingdom
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
John 18:36 KJV
“And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
Revelation 21:2
Jesus literally says that in his generetion all that was written would be fulfilled ……Agreed! And I've made the same points (I think to the same member
Luke 21:22 isn't saying "this right here" is the COMPLETE fulfillment of ALL [OT] prophecy; it is saying, the 70ad events cannot be LEFT OUT (otherwise "all prophecy" WOULDN'T be "fulfilled" if parts were left out).
And verse 32's "till ALL shall have taken place" MUST necessarily INCLUDE the very "of LENGTHY-DURATION" items that v.24 had ALREADY referred to ("and they shall be led away captive into all the nations, AND Jerusalem shall be TRODDEN DOWN of the Gentiles [see Rev11's TIMING of this (yet "future")] UNTIL the TIMES of the Gentiles [which STARTED in 605bc! and still needs its TOES yet! lol] be fulfilled" [the last "part" of this takes the reader clear to His Second Coming TO THE EARTH Rev19])
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. ( like Daniel said would come )
Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. ( the nt prophecy wasn’t yet written the ot was about to be fulfilled )
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.”
Luke 21:20-22, 32 KJV
He says the law and prophets prophecied until John the Baptist and it literally concludes the ot the promises of Christ and John Jesus literwlly tells them the kingdom is going to be taken away from them and tbier city is going to be burned up because they reject Gods son
If you would read what Jesus said about this stuff we would agree